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  1. #6871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Race swapping is bullshit no matter which way it goes. Imagine the massive coniption if Blade or Storm had a white actor cast. And Marvel has plenty of diverse characters they can produce content with.
    There's a bit of a difference, though. Blade and Storm were specifically written as black characters in a mostly-white cast, and that was important to the way they were written. Many characters really aren't written specifically as white; they're drawn as white because they happen to be in a country where most people looked like that.

    There are some characters who have to be white, like Steve Rogers, and then there are other characters who would be exactly the same if you changed their skin color.

  2. #6872
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess they pretty much ran through all the major BP villains in the first movie that all they had left was...Achebe, I guess?

    I assume they wanted to use Namor for a king vs king conflict even though now they can't do that without T'Challa. And they probably couldn't use Doom.
    .
    They wanted to go "big" because MCU stopped just continuing the story in their sequels. They have to go "big" and bigger and bigger and bigger. So continue from FFH with the Peter exposed? Naw, multiverse spider-men and villains! Continue Dr Strange from either the natural conclusion of no time stone or Mordo or Nightmare? Naw, multiverse of SW going nuts and MULTIVERSE!!!

    Achebe would have worked perfect for the direction the first movie ended. Perfect chance to adapt some version of "The Client" with T'challa opening that school or whatever up. Moses Magnum coulda been used if you wanted to go the "vibranium weapons" type route. Tetu/Zenzi could have been adapted rather easily (they are mostly a blank slate in the comics) if you wanted to keep the story more in house.

    Namor and Co fighting a landlocked nation is about as lazy as you could get. F this movie lol
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  3. #6873
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    There's a bit of a difference, though. Blade and Storm were specifically written as black characters in a mostly-white cast, and that was important to the way they were written. Many characters really aren't written specifically as white; they're drawn as white because they happen to be in a country where most people looked like that.

    There are some characters who have to be white, like Steve Rogers, and then there are other characters who would be exactly the same if you changed their skin color.
    Race (and gender, etc...) is all part of a characters identity. And you know that if a POC character...no matter how minor...was white washed people would lose their shit over it.

  4. #6874
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    They wanted to go "big" because MCU stopped just continuing the story in their sequels. They have to go "big" and bigger and bigger and bigger. So continue from FFH with the Peter exposed? Naw, multiverse spider-men and villains! Continue Dr Strange from either the natural conclusion of no time stone or Mordo or Nightmare? Naw, multiverse of SW going nuts and MULTIVERSE!!!

    Achebe would have worked perfect for the direction the first movie ended. Perfect chance to adapt some version of "The Client" with T'challa opening that school or whatever up. Moses Magnum coulda been used if you wanted to go the "vibranium weapons" type route. Tetu/Zenzi could have been adapted rather easily (they are mostly a blank slate in the comics) if you wanted to keep the story more in house.

    Namor and Co fighting a landlocked nation is about as lazy as you could get. F this movie lol
    That's why Endgame, is the ending to all of their previous movies (IMO).

    MCU is no longer concerned with cohesive storytelling, it's all about biGGERRRRRR!!1!!

    I mean the fact they are introducing Incursions now is crazy. Hickman used that concept to END the Marvel Universe that was ongoing for nearly seven decades. They could have saved it for the inevitable reset of the MCU but nah, they gotta do it now and do it in a crappy sequel (again IMO [don't @ me].

  5. #6875
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    That's why Endgame, is the ending to all of their previous movies (IMO).

    MCU is no longer concerned with cohesive storytelling, it's all about biGGERRRRRR!!1!!

    I mean the fact they are introducing Incursions now is crazy. Hickman used that concept to END the Marvel Universe that was ongoing for nearly seven decades. They could have saved it for the inevitable reset of the MCU but nah, they gotta do it now and do it in a crappy sequel (again IMO [don't @ me].
    And that's a shame because that..IMO...is a big part of the success of the MCU.

  6. #6876
    Spectacular Member CaptainCanada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    And you know that if a POC character...no matter how minor...was white washed people would lose their shit over it.
    It's almost like there's a huge difference between the representational history of minorities in Western media versus white characters.

    Also, because comics have historically treated white as the default (same with society in general), there are a lot of white characters in comics whose ethnicity is nowhere near as relevant as it is for most of the minority characters.

  7. #6877
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think the problem with the MCU is it's more difficult to do more straightforward movies now.

    Now there's got to be major stakes, huge CGI blow-ups, Kaiju Final bosses, or giant set pieces for practically every movie.

    You can't just do a standalone movie that's not an origin story, you've got to introduce new characters into the universe, follow up on a plot thread from a different movie or show (or maybe not the show because those can't be too relevant to what happens in the movies), or have some kind of crossover.

  8. #6878
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the problem with the MCU is it's more difficult to do more straightforward movies now.

    Now there's got to be major stakes, huge CGI blow-ups, Kaiju Final bosses, or giant set pieces for practically every movie.

    You can't just do a standalone movie that's not an origin story, you've got to introduce new characters into the universe, follow up on a plot thread from a different movie or show (or maybe not the show because those can't be too relevant to what happens in the movies), or have some kind of crossover.
    True, also I knew there was no hope when there was a friggin' kaiju fight in Moon Knight!

  9. #6879
    Incredible Member PlatinumThorns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the problem with the MCU is it's more difficult to do more straightforward movies now.

    Now there's got to be major stakes, huge CGI blow-ups, Kaiju Final bosses, or giant set pieces for practically every movie.

    You can't just do a standalone movie that's not an origin story, you've got to introduce new characters into the universe, follow up on a plot thread from a different movie or show (or maybe not the show because those can't be too relevant to what happens in the movies), or have some kind of crossover.
    That's what the Disney+ shows are for. A lot of upcoming series are origin stories with lower stakes.

  10. #6880
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    It's honestly hard to define what a high-stakes or low-stakes story is. Spider-Man: No Way Home was really kind of a small-scale, personal story that felt big because it pulled in characters from other universes. And Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was a very small-scale, low-stakes story that was sort of forced to pretend it wasn't; they had to keep saying "multiverse" every so often and talking about theoretical threats to the multiverse.

    In the end what makes a story "count" is if we feel the main character has something important at stake. Nobody really cares that much about "the fate of the world" in a movie, which is why Infinity War was smart enough to put the focus on Thanos and then, in the second movie, shift the focus to something we actually care about, which is finding a way to bring back the characters who were dusted.

  11. #6881
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    True, also I knew there was no hope when there was a friggin' kaiju fight in Moon Knight!
    Is wrong that I felt it was more earned than the Kaiju fight in Shang-Chi ?
    Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumThorns View Post
    That's what the Disney+ shows are for. A lot of upcoming series are origin stories with lower stakes.
    I was talking about the main movies though.

  12. #6882
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is wrong that I felt it was more earned than the Kaiju fight in Shang-Chi ?
    Man the last act of the movie was really weird lol. I loved the fight scenes in the first part of the movie. I still think the bus scene is the best action sequence in that movie but the end had crazy power creep. That said, I do think the rings are a pretty cool powerset and it's probably better to make Shang-Chi a powerhouse superhero than just a street level type like Daredevil

  13. #6883
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Kaiju fight kinda sorta worked in MK, even though they should have saved money on the budget so they could have had... actually more MK instead of "pass out and its over" fight scenes.

    Weird thing is... giant kaiju fight between gods in Egypt, that Celestial is still there right? When is someone gonna mention this shit if ItS aLl CoNnEcTeD lol
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  14. #6884
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Man the last act of the movie was really weird lol. I loved the fight scenes in the first part of the movie. I still think the bus scene is the best action sequence in that movie but the end had crazy power creep. That said, I do think the rings are a pretty cool powerset and it's probably better to make Shang-Chi a powerhouse superhero than just a street level type like Daredevil
    Fight between Shang and his Dad before Shang could control the rings was kino... good mix of super hero shit and kung fu ... not just choreography, but the verbal assaults both ways were... whew.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  15. #6885
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Man the last act of the movie was really weird lol. I loved the fight scenes in the first part of the movie. I still think the bus scene is the best action sequence in that movie but the end had crazy power creep. That said, I do think the rings are a pretty cool powerset and it's probably better to make Shang-Chi a powerhouse superhero than just a street level type like Daredevil
    The first half of the movie felt true to the actual Master of Kung-Fu comics with martial arts fights and globe-hopping and then they went full Iron Fist in the second half.

    I'm not against Shang getting a power boost but I prefer him emphasizing his fighting skills more instead of generic stuff like...look, he can force push! Look, he can punch harder! Look, he can jump more! Look, he can grapple!
    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Kaiju fight kinda sorta worked in MK, even though they should have saved money on the budget so they could have had... actually more MK instead of "pass out and its over" fight scenes.

    Weird thing is... giant kaiju fight between gods in Egypt, that Celestial is still there right? When is someone gonna mention this shit if ItS aLl CoNnEcTeD lol
    I'm still waiting for any of Wanda's old teammates to actually mention what happened to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Fight between Shang and his Dad before Shang could control the rings was kino... good mix of super hero shit and kung fu ... not just choreography, but the verbal assaults both ways were... whew.
    The movie really should have just ended with Shang vs. Wenwu. That's all anyone was really invested in.

    (I guess Xialing needed more Girl Power moments too).

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