Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Username taken]

Well, what're we considering to be "young" here?

I work with the public and see a lot of kids through that, and have two of my own so I'm no expert but just speaking from personal experience I feel like most kindergarteners I see are Avengers/MCU fans to one degree or another. There's usually at least a character or movie they've liked. You see a lot of MCU merchandise aimed at kids in that "early grade school" bracket, kid sized Halloween costumes, etc. You see kids of all ages at conventions, dressed up as MCU heroes.

I certainly wouldn't consider most MCU films/shows to be anything other than family friendly. She-Hulk included. There's a few exceptions; I wouldn't let my nine year old watch Multiverse of Madness. But She-Hulk? Can't imagine a reason to not let my girl watch it.

But what is and isn't appropriate for kids changes a lot depending on culture and region too. Hell, and generation. The stuff I was allowed to do as a kid would've gotten my parents arrested today, and I'm not even that old yet.

Agreed.

In my screening for Thor 4, a substantial part of the audience were kids. MCU films are basically family films.

I watched Thor 4 with the kids and my 5-year old lit up at the end when the kids got Thor’s powers. I know there’s nudity but a little man-butt isn’t really something that will “scar” the kids. Although this ultimately comes down to what parents feel is appropriate for their kids.

[Albert1981]

I think Thor 4 actually made a profit (or it will eventually). I just watched Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) on TCM, and in the outro it was mentioned that that film was one of top performing films of that year. Unfortunately due to its massive cost, it was considered a "flop". I don't think Thor 4 was a failure in that sense, but I do think Disney that should be a bit concerned that the trajectory (in terms of public reception) for their Marvel films is not going in the right direction. I mean, Wakanda Forever definitely can gain the MCU some momentum again, we'll just have to see.

I think HUGE numbers of elementary school children watch these films and shows. Although they are not MADE for them specifically, I do think Disney should take into account LOTS of kids do watch their Marvel/Star Wars/Pixar content. I mean the whole orgy thing in L&T WAS funny to me, but I can understand why parents might find it awkward to explain that shit to their kids. Disney has already got its critics giving it a hard time over its alleged promotion of "far-left identity politics, gender confusion, MeToo/Time's Up feminist propaganda, lectures on CRT, and global warming hysteria." I hardly think the Marvel movies are as woke as their detractors make them out to be. So I usually set aside that culture war stuff. I just don't want folks calling She-Hulk and Black Widow "sluts" or "whores". When Thor magically gave those children powers at the end of the Thor 4, that was directed SPECIFICALLY to younger audiences (although I understand some older audience members thought it was cringe).

[Frontier]

Rumors are that She-Hulk and/or a hulked-up army (engineered from Jen's blood) will appear in Captain America: New World Order.

That would explain doing World War Hulk without actually doing World War Hulk.

Agreed.

In my screening for Thor 4, a substantial part of the audience were kids. MCU films are basically family films.

I watched Thor 4 with the kids and my 5-year old lit up at the end when the kids got Thor’s powers. I know there’s nudity but a little man-butt isn’t really something that will “scar” the kids. Although this ultimately comes down to what parents feel is appropriate for their kids.

Which is such a kid movie thing to do.

[Kingdom X]

I think Thor 4 actually made a profit (or it will eventually). I just watched Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) on TCM, and in the outro it was mentioned that that film was one of top performing films of that year. Unfortunately due to its massive cost, it was considered a "flop". I don't think Thor 4 was a failure in that sense, but I do think Disney that should be a bit concerned that the trajectory (in terms of public reception) for their Marvel films is not going in the right direction. I mean, Wakanda Forever definitely can gain the MCU some momentum again, we'll just have to see.

I think HUGE numbers of elementary school children watch these films and shows. Although they are not MADE for them specifically, I do think Disney should take into account LOTS of kids do watch their Marvel/Star Wars/Pixar content. I mean the whole orgy thing in L&T WAS funny to me, but I can understand why parents might find it awkward to explain that shit to their kids. Disney has already got its critics giving it a hard time over its alleged promotion of "far-left identity politics, gender confusion, MeToo/Time's Up feminist propaganda, lectures on CRT, and global warming hysteria." I hardly think the Marvel movies are as woke as their detractors make them out to be. So I usually set aside that culture war stuff. I just don't want folks calling She-Hulk and Black Widow "sluts" or "whores". When Thor magically gave those children powers at the end of the Thor 4, that was directed SPECIFICALLY to younger audiences (although I understand some older audience members thought it was cringe).

So Marvel shouldn’t include a scene where it’s “implied” that She-Hulk had a one night stand, because some idiots think that women having healthy consensual encounters lowers their “value”. I had even forgotten about L&T, but that movie was SO horny. Besides the multiple orgy jokes that you mentioned, Thor was shown with multiple sexual partners in the opening montage AND there were jokes about the size of his member. It’s frankly weird to me that this conversation is happening NOW that She-Hulk has one sexual experience, whereas the MCU has always included (light) sexual elements. It’s always been a franchise that’s PG-13.

[Chris0013]

That would explain doing World War Hulk without actually doing World War Hulk.

Which is such a kid movie thing to do.

Like that lightning throwing stuffed animal.

[Albert1981]

So Marvel shouldn’t include a scene where it’s “implied” that She-Hulk had a one night stand, because some idiots think that women having healthy consensual encounters lowers their “value”. I had even forgotten about L&T, but that movie was SO horny. Besides the multiple orgy jokes that you mentioned, Thor was shown with multiple sexual partners in the opening montage AND there were jokes about the size of his member. It’s frankly weird to me that this conversation is happening NOW that She-Hulk has one sexual experience, whereas the MCU has always included (light) sexual elements. It’s always been a franchise that’s PG-13.

Maybe I'm just too prudish and conservative on these matters. And perhaps I'm guilty of double standards on these issues as well. Like most of the world, I don't really have much of an issue about guys boning laydeez on a regular basis because that's something that is celebrated in most cultures. When "broads" do it though, I definitely feel different. Not because I'm against girls having fun, but societies are WAY more judgemental when it comes to these kinds of things. I just hit up YouTube recently, and folks there are already calling Jen a "slut" and her name should be "She-Whore". To me, that shows that Jen is FAR too concerned about her dating life as opposed to being a superhero in this series. As I've said before, I think She-Hulk has had some really funny moments (and Tatiana is doing a GREAT job), but she doesn't feel like a "hero" to me. Superheroing apparently is an annoying distraction to her sex life, and I don't agree with that. I felt the same way about the MoM. Stephen, Wong, Chavez and Wanda didn't feel like "heroes" to me in that picture either. They just acted selfishly and idiotically throughout that ENTIRE film. At least with L&T, I felt the protagonists in that movie were trying to do the "right thing".

[Albert1981]

I'm generally not a fan of "sex scenes" in superhero properties. Jokes about whorehouses and jizz patterns shaped like Jackson Pollock paintings are TOTALLY fine with me though. Even the orgy stuff can be sort of "glossed over" because the kids are likely gonna forget about it. I HATED Marvel's first "sex scene" in the Eternals though. I read comments elsewhere that a fellow in a cinema sat next to a father with his pre-teen, maybe teen daughter and noticed how uncomfortable it was for them. Somebody else stated that it was so "embarrassing" because their entire family was with them (these things can be painfully unpleasant when not just ten-year-old kids are there. It can be cringe for eighty-year-old grandparents watching as well). Another mentioned that his entire theater awkwardly laughed throughout the whole thing. And it was so random and unnecessary too. I just don't get the argument that you need sex scenes for these superhero movies/shows to feel "adult". I RESPECT the fact that not every country and culture in the world is comfortable watching sex scenes in theaters. The whole sex scene brouhaha just hurt the Eternals' reception even more in my opinion. I personally think showing intimacy does NOT require actors/actresses getting naked and humping. There are definitely other ways to go about that. As somebody else posted on a forum elsewhere:

"Am I the only one that hates sex scenes in movies? They’re so unnecessary. We get it, you two love each other. I’m not sitting next to my dad and a bunch of strangers in a movie theater because I want to watch basically porn. Definitely didn’t want or need it in a Marvel movie (regarding the Eternals)."

Sometimes I feel that some MCU fans actually want full penetration, and are extremely unhappy that Disney/Marvel will only go so far as dry humping. To me sex does NOT equal love. People have sex without romantic feelings all the time. I know this to be a FACT because I'm a regular viewer of the Maury Show. So I'd be perfectly content if Marvel Studios never does this shit EVER again.

She-Hulk's one-night stand was really cringe to watch. I actually thought She-Hulk episode 4 was the best of the series thus far, but Jen's roll in the hay with that dude REALLY dragged it down for me. As I said, I don't want Jen being called names by audience members because of how she conducts her private life, but it's already happening:

"I was very surprised she had a one-night stand. Was the comic character a slut, too? I mean whatever, I just didn't think it was very family friendly or in any way necessary to move the story along."

[80sbaby]

The fact that you want to adopt a sexist attitude on order to "protect" Jen from name calling, as opposed to arguing against slut shaming, says a lot. You aren't simply prudish. You're condoning mysogyny and victim blaming.

[Albert1981]

I've always liked She-Hulk, but I KNEW if they did the whole "hook-up" thing with her (which admittedly is a big part of her character biography), the whole slut-shaming discussions would commence pretty quickly. And I REALLY didn't want that to happen. Evans and Renner already got in trouble in the past for calling Nat's character a "slut" and a "whore". I just want that garbage to be left behind. I think it's great that Jen's show focuses on her work and personal life, but I feel the "twerking" and Tinder stuff are sort of defining her character at the moment. She's been pretty obsessed with her dating life throughout this show, but has she really acted like a "hero" in this series? The whole helping out other people thing seems to be an annoyance and hindrance to her sex life and her priority seems to be focused on the latter most of the time. Which I DON'T agree with at all. I'm hoping that will change, but I don't think it's sexist and chauvinistic to want Jen to pay more attention to what's going on with the Wrecking Crew as opposed to her dating profile.

[80sbaby]

I've always liked She-Hulk, but I KNEW if they did the whole "hook-up" thing with her (which admittedly is a big part of her character biography), the whole slut-shaming discussions would commence pretty quickly. And I REALLY didn't want that to happen. Evans and Renner already got in trouble in the past for calling Nat's character a "slut" and a "whore". I just want that garbage to be left behind. I think it's great that Jen's show focuses on her work and personal life, but I feel the "twerking" and Tinder stuff are sort of defining her character at the moment. She's been pretty obsessed with her dating life throughout this show, but has she really acted like a "hero" in this series? The whole helping out other people thing seems to be an annoyance and hindrance to her sex life and her priority seems to be focused on the latter most of the time. Which I DON'T agree with at all. I'm hoping that will change, but I don't think it's sexist and chauvinistic to want Jen to pay more attention to what's going on with the Wrecking Crew as opposed to her dating profile.

It's sexist when you say you don't want her to have sex but are ok with with men doing it. Like, that's literally what it is lol

And then you compound that with saying the equivalent of "if she didn't want to be called a slut then she shouldn't be having sex."

The only people who are defining her by twerking and her sex life are sexist aholes and mysogynists. Why do you care so much what they think? You should be questioning that part more.

[Albert1981]

It's sexist when you say you don't want her to have sex but are ok with with men doing it. Like, that's literally what it is lol

And then you compound that with saying the equivalent of "if she didn't want to be called a slut then she shouldn't be having sex."

The only people who are defining her by twerking and her sex life are sexist aholes and mysogynists. Why do you care so much what they think? You should be questioning that part more.

I care because I like She-Hulk as a character. I'm a big fan of the "Hulk franchise", so I want the characters in it to be respected. And I HATE how SOME of the audience members are sort of defining Jen's character largely due to her sex life. And yeah, I do joke about womanizers getting around because like a lot of folks, I accept the fact that dudes are often celebrated for their sexual conquests and women are criticized for being "promiscuous". As I mentioned earlier, it's a clear double standard, but at least I'm TOTALLY owning up to sharing those views!

Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne will never get critiqued for being "man-whores", but female superheroes are not treated the same. At least after Disney bought Marvel they transformed Tony from being an avid skirt-chaser into a loving family man. Yes, I don't want Jen to be known for sleeping around. She can date whoever she wants, but engaging in booty calls is beneath her in my opinion. And I don't think it's cool that she is so focused on the whole "friends with benefits" thing at the expense of taking care of the bad guys. Besides, none of the male superheroes in the MCU are into flings either. Captain America, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Doctor Strange and Vision seem to be pretty good dudes on that front. All of them are really well-behaved and their female love interests basically dominate their romantic relationships (in my opinion).

[Tofali]

I've always liked She-Hulk, but I KNEW if they did the whole "hook-up" thing with her (which admittedly is a big part of her character biography), the whole slut-shaming discussions would commence pretty quickly. And I REALLY didn't want that to happen. Evans and Renner already got in trouble in the past for calling Nat's character a "slut" and a "whore". I just want that garbage to be left behind. I think it's great that Jen's show focuses on her work and personal life, but I feel the "twerking" and Tinder stuff are sort of defining her character at the moment. She's been pretty obsessed with her dating life throughout this show, but has she really acted like a "hero" in this series? The whole helping out other people thing seems to be an annoyance and hindrance to her sex life and her priority seems to be focused on the latter most of the time. Which I DON'T agree with at all. I'm hoping that will change, but I don't think it's sexist and chauvinistic to want Jen to pay more attention to what's going on with the Wrecking Crew as opposed to her dating profile.

I get what you're saying but the trailer leaned in her dating life so I have a feeling they'll explore that more. I don't think you're going to get what you want to see though (I'm curious with how I'm going to experience this show when I start watching it because I'm getting really extreme takes from different ppl - It sounds very chaotic)

[80sbaby]

I care because I like She-Hulk as a character. I'm a big fan of the "Hulk franchise", so I want the characters in it to be respected. And I HATE how SOME of the audience members are sort of defining Jen's character largely due to her sex life. And yeah, I do joke about womanizers getting around because like a lot of folks, I accept the fact that dudes are often celebrated for their sexual conquests and women are criticized for being "promiscuous". As I mentioned earlier, it's a clear double standard, but at least I'm TOTALLY owning up to sharing those views!

Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne will never get critiqued for being "man-whores", but female superheroes are not treated the same. At least after Disney bought Marvel they transformed Tony from being an avid skirt-chaser into a loving family man. Yes, I don't want Jen to be known for sleeping around. She can date whoever she wants, but engaging in booty calls is beneath her in my opinion. And I don't think it's cool that she is so focused on the whole "friends with benefits" thing at the expense of taking care of the bad guys. Besides, none of the male superheroes in the MCU are into flings either. Captain America, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Doctor Strange and Vision seem to be pretty good dudes on that front. All of them are really well-behaved and their female love interests basically dominate their romantic relationships (in my opinion).

And what I'm saying is that your viewpoint is actually very disrespectful of the character you claim to care about. "Owning up" to sexism doesn't mean much if you're not actively trying to change that thought process and are advocating for creatives to cater to that same sexism.

[Kingdom X]

I care because I like She-Hulk as a character. I'm a big fan of the "Hulk franchise", so I want the characters in it to be respected. And I HATE how SOME of the audience members are sort of defining Jen's character largely due to her sex life. And yeah, I do joke about womanizers getting around because like a lot of folks, I accept the fact that dudes are often celebrated for their sexual conquests and women are criticized for being "promiscuous". As I mentioned earlier, it's a clear double standard, but at least I'm TOTALLY owning up to sharing those views!

Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne will never get critiqued for being "man-whores", but female superheroes are not treated the same. At least after Disney bought Marvel they transformed Tony from being an avid skirt-chaser into a loving family man. Yes, I don't want Jen to be known for sleeping around. She can date whoever she wants, but engaging in booty calls is beneath her in my opinion. And I don't think it's cool that she is so focused on the whole "friends with benefits" thing at the expense of taking care of the bad guys. Besides, none of the male superheroes in the MCU are into flings either. Captain America, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Doctor Strange and Vision seem to be pretty good dudes on that front. All of them are really well-behaved and their female love interests basically dominate their romantic relationships (in my opinion).

If you’re aware that you have a double-standard (which you stated you might have in a previous comment) maybe think about unpacking that. Having sex with ONE person does not equal sleeping around and it’s “beneath her”? What does that even mean? Her value as a person has nothing to do with who she has sex with and if we’re being honest… that was a one-night stand and not something continued because that guy was an ass. She was ready to cook him up breakfast and continue something with him till he ran for the hills. Lastly, she’s really only looked into dating for one episode. It came up again during the Tatiana case, but she wasn’t focused on dating at all it was just needed to win the trial. Jen not wanting to be a hero has far more to do with her wanting to be a regular lawyer than anything else.

Frankly it’s really gross that this started out as a “keep sex out of the MCU” discussion, but it’s fine when Peter Quill jokes about his semen covering an entire spaceship because he’s a man and boys will be boys.

[davetvs]

High school-aged Peter Parker made a cum joke in Far From Home but we're hand-wringing over a grown woman having sex? Lol