Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Albert1981]

At this point I don't mind a forced and gimmicky X-Men Universe conclusion like the forced and gimmicky treatment the Spider-Man movies got in NWH.

It was gimmicky in NWH, but I think Sony/Disney pulled it off. Most people seemed to have enjoyed that film. I actually wasn't expecting to, but I thought it was pretty good. I even thought it was quite funny. And you're talking to a dude who stopped enjoying Spider-Man movies after the Amazing Spider-Man flicks. So it worked for me. All I'm saying is that most folks seemed to think Logan got a pretty good send-off in that 2017 film. I'm just saying it's very hard to top that. And they'll have to write him off again.

[Albert1981]

Yes, I guess you can say those non-MCU Marvel characters weren't really cameos. But they were basically introduced because of their previous popularity in other properties. If they recasted them all, there would be no hype or anticipation (but there would be clean slates for those characters, creatively speaking that is). Maybe it's because I didn't watch a lot of non-MCU Marvel content that's causing me to roll my eyes at this ****. I'm sure when Wolverine shows up in Deadpool 3, theater crowds are gonna go nuts. I mean Disney seems obsessed about these "comic book boner" moments these days, so I hope it works out well for them. 80sbaby was right in saying that Cap and Iron Man had great story "arcs" completed during the Infinity Saga. But those took a decade to complete. With something like sixteen new Marvel heroes being introduced in this phase ALONE, can they all hope to be extended the same courtesy? I highly doubt it. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Marvel Studios pulling that off. Like I said, I'm holding out hope Coogler does a great job with BP2. It just sucks that audiences can't drink anything before they see that movie.

[80sbaby]

It was gimmicky in NWH, but I think Sony/Disney pulled it off. Most people seemed to have enjoyed that film. I actually wasn't expecting to, but I thought it was pretty good. I even thought it was quite funny. And you're talking to a dude who stopped enjoying Spider-Man movies after the Amazing Spider-Man flicks. So it worked for me. All I'm saying is that most folks seemed to think Logan got a pretty good send-off in that 2017 film. [B]I'm just saying it's very hard to top that.[B] And they'll have to write him off again.

The bolded is your problem. They don't have to top it. All they need to do is make it enjoyable/entertaining.

[CJStriker]

I mean, same with the comics. Because of bad writing.

So she is fitting right in.

One of the biggest strength of Marvel was always never shying away from darker character traits of their characters which makes them more real.

The only one with a clean vest and a boy scout attitude is Captain America and that's makes him special and stand out from the rest.

Yea, you get Bendis or Michael Waldron admitting they don’t read or watch past canon to start writing out Wanda & never take enough responsibility for their recklessness or lack of respect for the character or canon. They are on the highest level of writing jobs in the world, they & the public should hold themselves to higher standards.

It is also worst for the MCU, if you don’t respect at the very least the important plot points form previous works & stories that Marvel Studios encourage you to pay & watch, then needing to watch them before watching future projects, yet they undermine their own product at a risk of losing status & money. That is why the backlash was fierce & justified against Michael Waldron, it why MoM Story must be taken with massive grains of salt & likely changes to come later to correct such clear eras the public was backlashing against & want to be corrected.

She doesn't deserve a happy ending though.

She's a murdering, selfish, egotistical, psychopath in the MCU

How is she a hero at all?

Keep her dead, keep her bad, or at best chaotic neutral.

That’s unfortunate to hear Mindshadow, I honest see it very differently as well as many others I know both online & in real life at LCS come to different conclusions. I could talk about where those conclusion views, but I rather not get into a debate or argument between friends, in the end its set past for various fans & right now in MCU alone its more important to focus on future stories to advance characters & then fill in the past gaps as well that MCU creators of the past did not care enough to do.

Like the comics I don’t mind a Detailed & well put together road back taking time, the more it’s like the comics that get to the core of the character like from the comics like Children’s Crusades, AvX, Uncanny Avengers, No Surrender, Robinson’s Solo Run & Especially Trial of Magneto & Darkhold Alpha & Omega the better.

There is much to pull from & a good actress in Miss Olsen to execute it well. Even some original ideas would not be bad, but time will tell what and if, but saying they want to do more is an important 1st volley.

I think the MCU right now is more focused on now solidifying their present next 2 years more than anything 1st.

[Albert1981]

The bolded is your problem. They don't have to top it. All they need to do is make it enjoyable/entertaining.

You're right, they don't. And I hope they do make it entertaining and enjoyable. But I think a lot of the characters that were introduced in Phase 4 need some more TLC. Deadpool and Wolverine already got WAY more than the rest of the FOX Marvel characters from what I understand.

[CTTT]

It's funny how people on this thread some people moan about "there's too many shows/movies to keep up with" and having to watch them all. I'm assuming some are comics readers, yes? Concept is the same just different formant. Quality ebbs and flows with comics just as it does films and shows. And some have probably read 100s if not thousands of comics over a period of time. Just enjoy it. Because of D+ we can have more content and as close to comic book like format as possible, that wasn't possible 15 years ago.

[Frontier]

It's funny how people on this thread some people moan about "there's too many shows/movies to keep up with" and having to watch them all. I'm assuming some are comics readers, yes? Concept is the same just different formant. Quality ebbs and flows with comics just as it does films and shows. And some have probably read 100s if not thousands of comics over a period of time. Just enjoy it. Because of D+ we can have more content and as close to comic book like format as possible, that wasn't possible 15 years ago.

I don't think that's quite the same because they are different mediums and produced in different ways and there is a much more different structure and organization for comics compared to movies and streaming shows.

[mace11]

It's amazing how some folks in certain forums,youtube channels(john campea talking about blade and phase 4 overall and rob lately etc..) are panicking about the mcu(current blade,thor 4 for examples),losing faith and acting as if the mcu has gotten to dceu and star wars level of organization and story telling level on average.
Keep in mind this is not the mainstream panicking like this and overreacting and losing faith and we have not even gotten to x-men yet etc..

Anyway speaking for myself and i think phase 4 like phase 3 are the best mcu phases so far and most critics and audiences agree looking at varied scores on average.
All have been hits for me and i am more excited for the mcu more then ever since phase 3 and 4 and the future.

[John Venus]

-I think the problem is a lot of people are expecting all the projects to connect together. So they watch stuff out of obligation then get mad at all the parts of a project that have nothing to do with the main arc of the universe. Even back in Phase 2 and 3 we had that issue where people were complaining about Hulk not being in IM3 or the Netflix/AoS not tying into the movies and then proceeding to complain about heroes showing up in each others movies in Phase 3. It's clear that due to the number of projects they're helming, Marvel is keeping some projects standalone but they are tying stuff into a larger arc wherever possible.

-Fiege approving Jackman's return as Wolverine, even if it's possibly for this one project, makes me think that there might not be an MCU-616 Logan and that they will just use legacy characters like Laura to carry the mantle and do Logan's story arcs with her, just like how they are doing Armor Wars but with Rhodey. If Fiege had his way, he would probably utilize Patrick Stewart/Ian McKellan as Xavier/Magneto again or bring McAvoy/Fassbender back for the role. Overall, I think the MCU does well if they're the *first* one to do a major adaptation of a character but they seem to struggle when it comes to 're adapting' characters who've had popular adaptation. See: Spider-Man and to an extent, the Hulk. When they end up 're adapting' characters it feels like they end up trying too hard to be different that it ends up either missing the point of the character or leave out key elements of the characters. The upcoming Blade movie is also struggling to get off the ground. Also, I understand the frustration because fans are also attached to particular versions of the characters. I can't say I enjoyed the constant Tobey vs Andrew vs Holland debates or the Ruffallo vs Norton vs Bana debates, the Blade movie hasn't even begun filming yet and people are already comparing Mahershala Ali and Wesely Snipes. I think they will recast Xavier and Magneto since they likely have no choice. Stewart/Ian are too old and MacAvoy/Fassbender are likely done with the whole thing. T'Challa will probably be recast via Multiverse.

[CTTT]

-I think the problem is a lot of people are expecting all the projects to connect together. So they watch stuff out of obligation then get mad at all the parts of a project that have nothing to do with the main arc of the universe. Even back in Phase 2 and 3 we had that issue where people were complaining about Hulk not being in IM3 or the Netflix/AoS not tying into the movies and then proceeding to complain about heroes showing up in each others movies in Phase 3. It's clear that due to the number of projects they're helming, Marvel is keeping some projects standalone but they are tying stuff into a larger arc wherever possible.

-Fiege approving Jackman's return as Wolverine, even if it's possibly for this one project, makes me think that there might not be an MCU-616 Logan and that they will just use legacy characters like Laura to carry the mantle and do Logan's story arcs with her, just like how they are doing Armor Wars but with Rhodey. If Fiege had his way, he would probably utilize Patrick Stewart/Ian McKellan as Xavier/Magneto again or bring McAvoy/Fassbender back for the role. Overall, I think the MCU does well if they're the *first* one to do a major adaptation of a character but they seem to struggle when it comes to 're adapting' characters who've had popular adaptation. See: Spider-Man and to an extent, the Hulk. When they end up 're adapting' characters it feels like they end up trying too hard to be different that it ends up either missing the point of the character or leave out key elements of the characters. The upcoming Blade movie is also struggling to get off the ground. Also, I understand the frustration because fans are also attached to particular versions of the characters. I can't say I enjoyed the constant Tobey vs Andrew vs Holland debates or the Ruffallo vs Norton vs Bana debates, the Blade movie hasn't even begun filming yet and people are already comparing Mahershala Ali and Wesely Snipes. I think they will recast Xavier and Magneto since they likely have no choice. Stewart/Ian are too old and MacAvoy/Fassbender are likely done with the whole thing. T'Challa will probably be recast via Multiverse.

Well, I think Tom Holland was a success at trying something different. And it was a gamble in some respects because at that point 2017, we were only 6 years removed from Tobey and 3 from Andrew Garfield. So, Tom had some shoes to fill. And I think he succeeded really well.

[80sbaby]

I don't think that's quite the same because they are different mediums and produced in different ways and there is a much more different structure and organization for comics compared to movies and streaming shows.

That has nothing to do with their point, which is you can pick and choose what to watch. Just like you do with the comics.

[MindofShadow]

It's funny how people on this thread some people moan about "there's too many shows/movies to keep up with" and having to watch them all. I'm assuming some are comics readers, yes? Concept is the same just different formant. Quality ebbs and flows with comics just as it does films and shows. And some have probably read 100s if not thousands of comics over a period of time. Just enjoy it. Because of D+ we can have more content and as close to comic book like format as possible, that wasn't possible 15 years ago.

I'd argue most people in here complain about hte quality vs the quantity.

It is rare for people to complain about too much HIGH QUALITY stuff. It is when the quality starts to suffer all around that people go, "maybe you shouldn't release as much"

[MindofShadow]

That’s unfortunate to hear Mindshadow, I honest see it very differently as well as many others I know both online & in real life at LCS come to different conclusions.

Unfortunately, purely MCU, we didn't get enough "good hero Wanda" to make up for the screw ups, bad stuff, and straight evil stuff she did.

They turned her too dang fast and it was a discredit to comic hero Wanda. IMHO, it just makes any redemption feel hollow as hell.


As a wanda fan... what could she do heroically that would make up for all the torment, death and destruction she's been directly responsible for?

[gurkle]

Unfortunately, purely MCU, we didn't get enough "good hero Wanda" to make up for the screw ups, bad stuff, and straight evil stuff she did.

They turned her too dang fast and it was a discredit to comic hero Wanda. IMHO, it just makes any redemption feel hollow as hell.


As a wanda fan... what could she do heroically that would make up for all the torment, death and destruction she's been directly responsible for?

They retcon the Darkhold thing as possession or some other type of thing that wasn't fully in her control, then she starts anonymously making it up to the people she hurt and the families of those she killed. Something like that. Also maybe flash back to her time as an Avenger and actually show the good she did, since most of that was offscreen between movies.

As with comic Wanda and "no more mutants" I'm not comfortable with the idea that a bad story should prevent a character from ever being in good stories. Just write it off as a mistake and carry on.

[MindofShadow]

As with comic Wanda and "no more mutants" I'm not comfortable with the idea that a bad story should prevent a character from ever being in good stories. Just write it off as a mistake and carry on.

TBF, we've had three separate things now that were straight up horrid (sending an enraged Hulk to Johannesburg, enslaving a town, then MoM)

I could see a story where avengers get together for a threat and realize "we need Wanda" for some weird thing and they reluctantly bring her into the fold and she proves her worth as a hero but man... it would have to be some heroic moment lol

(maybe they can use her as a molecule man stand in for secret wars or something idk)

It is a shame we didn't get to see the Avengers like... function well as a team