Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Force de Phenix]

No one knows if something will be good until they see it, so not even remotely comparable.

And that book was a hack job. It didn't even work for the movies because it has the character trying to kidnap someone else's kids instead of interested in her own being in danger like the end of her show. And shows no concern for the rest of her family. With the huge plot hole that she could have just gone off somewhere remote where there aren't other people and recreated her happy bubble.

No one asked for Wanda to sit and watch cartoons and eat cereal so I don't know where you get that from. You just have a problem with people having a different opinion.

Crappy movies make money and good movies become cult favorites. It's not alien to movies. Audiences go out for a weekend to watch things. Usually the most publicized movies.

I'm sure some fanboys wanted Wanda to live happy and have her sons and not be the antagonist of some Disney+ Star movie. I'm sure people would've wanted WandaVision to be the conclusion of Wanda dabbling in witchcraft and her to live in peace having family moments with her family.

I think the majority of mainstream movies and comics are trash, but out of the MCU movies, this wasn't the worst it could have been and it had good moments because the director didn't see it as a checklist for Twitter and social media trolls and put his own style into it. Which was needed. The Scarlet Witch was a highlight of the movie.

I don't take these movies that seriously because I know they're used to sell the streaming service and merchandise.

I'm sure Disney is setting up the merchandise for Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Bash with the Scarlet Witch in cartoon form next to Maleficent and the Sanderson Sisters. Speaking of which, they need to put her in a cartoon.

I understand why people would be upset about people liking Multiverse of Madness though. It's cool. These forums are definitely made to air grievances. No one is stopping you. I'm just saying it's toxic. To each their own.

[Frontier]

I think people who thought she was already evil in WandaVision like this a bit more than those who liked her in the show -- though even they can't be completely satisfied, since no one can take her turn to villainy seriously, because it happens offscreen. Plus Strange even dismisses Westview as not important because she did the right thing in the end, so they don't even pretend this is a logical outgrowth of what she did in the show.

So Strange doesn't even justify why he wasn't there at all?

Shang was good. The ending was weird but Shang was a good movie for sure.

https://comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel...leaked-a193774






I find this kinda shocking... I figured the MCU stamp was good enough, not that they needed to pop up before hand to drive interest.

Huh, with all the internet buzz and how it initially kept the typical MCU humor with Steven I'm honestly kind of surprised that a majority disliked it.

Makes me wonder how Ms. Marvel and Ironheart do because they're spinoffs of established character.

I also thought Bruce would be in it more.

[gurkle]

I'm sure some fanboys wanted Wanda to live happy and have her sons and not be the antagonist of some Disney+ Star movie. I'm sure people would've wanted WandaVision to be the conclusion of Wanda dabbling in witchcraft and her to live in peace having family moments with her family.

It's fine that you like her portrayal in the movie, but you're just misrepresenting what her fans are saying.

We're not upset because Wanda didn't get a happy ending. We're upset because WandaVision established Wanda as someone who would rather wipe her children from existence than torture people, and this movie threw away all her established characterization to make her a psycho who wants to kill a child, and anyone else who gets in her way, so she can kidnap copies of her children.

It's fine to have characters do bad things if they are convincingly in character. Most of Wanda's fans believed her misdeeds in "WandaVision" were in character. Everything she did in this movie is something Wanda would never do, which is why they use the evil book as a lazy excuse (which also contradicts WandaVision, where the book was not portrayed as having that total corrupting effect).

I would rather see Wanda unhappy and in-character than happy and out-of-character. There were ways to have her do wrong in this film and still be in-character; they decided to have her turn into a totally different person offscreen for no good reason, and turn back into her old self at the last minute for no good reason.

All anyone wants for their favorite characters is good writing. That's it.

[GenericUsername]

I'm sure some fanboys wanted Wanda to live happy and have her sons and not be the antagonist of some Disney+ Star movie. I'm sure people would've wanted WandaVision to be the conclusion of Wanda dabbling in witchcraft and her to live in peace having family moments with her family.

I think the majority of mainstream movies and comics are trash, but out of the MCU movies, this wasn't the worst it could have been and it had good moments because the director didn't see it as a checklist for Twitter and social media trolls and put his own style into it. Which was needed. The Scarlet Witch was a highlight of the movie.

I don't take these movies that seriously because I know they're used to sell the streaming service and merchandise.

I'm sure Disney is setting up the merchandise for Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Bash with the Scarlet Witch in cartoon form next to Maleficent and the Sanderson Sisters. Speaking of which, they need to put her in a cartoon.

I understand why people would be upset about people liking Multiverse of Madness though. It's cool. These forums are definitely made to air grievances. No one is stopping you. I'm just saying it's toxic. To each their own.

Sure, because Wanda hasn't been given a break, but I don't think that happiness has to be eating cereal or some other ridiculousness. Other characters in the MCU are not reduced like that. Why would she need to be?

It's not the worst but it's down there. It's even down there in ratings for Phase 4 so far. SW is a highlight, but also most of the acting is, but it doesn't save the script.

I'd like more Marvel cartoons and cartoon movies. I don't think they've done a cartoon movie in a long time. I think the last one was Strange's movie, which handled his lore much better than the movies have so far.

I don't have a problem with people liking ITMoM. Opinions are not toxic. They are just something you agree or disagree with. Anytime you get several people together on a public forum, there's gonna be different points of view.

[GenericUsername]

It's fine that you like her portrayal in the movie, but you're just misrepresenting what her fans are saying.

We're not upset because Wanda didn't get a happy ending. We're upset because WandaVision established Wanda as someone who would rather wipe her children from existence than torture people, and this movie threw away all her established characterization to make her a psycho who wants to kill a child, and anyone else who gets in her way, so she can kidnap copies of her children.

It's fine to have characters do bad things if they are convincingly in character. Most of Wanda's fans believed her misdeeds in "WandaVision" were in character. Everything she did in this movie is something Wanda would never do, which is why they use the evil book as a lazy excuse (which also contradicts WandaVision, where the book was not portrayed as having that total corrupting effect).

I would rather see Wanda unhappy and in-character than happy and out-of-character. There were ways to have her do wrong in this film and still be in-character; they decided to have her turn into a totally different person offscreen for no good reason, and turn back into her old self at the last minute for no good reason.

All anyone wants for their favorite characters is good writing. That's it.

Yeah I think we all are familiar with this character being flawed. But it's the removal of nuance and any sort of development that's the problem. And I don't think there is anything wrong with her being happy for once. It's not like other characters are their tragedies. Or people in real life are their tragedies. Her show was great enough exploration of that. Even if they had her possessed but didn't have the retread of WV plot would be fine. Because it creates major plot holes.

This movie also didn't do anything for any of the characters.

It didn't go into an exploration of magic, it didn't really forward Strange's story, Wanda's story, America is just there also as a plot device. I think the only thing it did was confirm incursions. That's it. And that could have been done on it's own.

[MindofShadow]

This movie also didn't do anything for any of the characters.

It didn't go into an exploration of magic, it didn't really forward Strange's story, Wanda's story, America is just there also as a plot device. I think the only thing it did was confirm incursions. That's it. And that could have been done on it's own.

All i wanted in the FFH sequel was a continuation of that story. Instead they went big and crazy and made billions lol

All I wanted in DS2 was a continuation of the story.. the bill comes do... real Mordo not another multiverse one... instead they went big and crazy and... might make a billion lol.

It seems the GA just wants big and crazy tbh.

BP2 is doing the same thing by bringing in Namor instead of just continuing the dang story (being a king =/= being a good man... when you open other world you get their problems, ect)

[Albert1981]

Here for the Shang-Chi love. It often gets thrown with the rest when folks talk about Phase 4 being mediocre and I personally loved it. Only MCU origin story I’ll rewatch.

MoM is divisive in the weirdest way. There isn’t clear consensus on what folks did and didn’t like.

The next MCU project is Ms. Marvel right? How are folks feeling about that? I’m a little apprehensive. I love a good teen drama, but the trailer gave Disney Channel more than anything else.

You'll get no argument from me that Shang-Chi was the best Phase 4 Disney Marvel offering. It felt totally like an MCU property to me. My brother is a film buff and he told me that Tony Leung is one of the greatest actors of his generation that Asia has produced. And I really liked him in this film. I also thought Ben Kingsley was fantastic and it's safe to say he's a wonderful actor as well. They brought an interesting energy to Shang-Chi, and I had a great time watching it. I don't know anything about Ms. Marvel, but I'm nervous for the actress playing her. To be the face of the South Asian and Muslim communities in the MCU at SUCH a young age with virtually NO acting experience is a HUGE challenge. It would be really "taxi" for Ms. Marvel to fail. I feel the same way for that Echo actress and the America Chavez actress. They are representing the Native American and Latina communities respectively in the MCU, and I think they have pretty big burdens on their shoulders. I'm actually more worried about She-Hulk. The Hulk "franchise" is pretty well-known and I just got this BAD feeling that She-Hulk is gonna be an overstuffed and bloated MESS.

[GenericUsername]

All i wanted in the FFH sequel was a continuation of that story. Instead they went big and crazy and made billions lol

All I wanted in DS2 was a continuation of the story.. the bill comes do... real Mordo not another multiverse one... instead they went big and crazy and... might make a billion lol.

It seems the GA just wants big and crazy tbh.

BP2 is doing the same thing by bringing in Namor instead of just continuing the dang story (being a king =/= being a good man... when you open other world you get their problems, ect)

This is very valid because they did this same thing in comics with copy/pasta events that annoyed people. It became tiring. Because it completely ignores world building that made the universe so popular in favor of plot driven spectacle.

Which I can take big spectacle sometimes, but I don't want it to cost character growth. Especially for someone like Strange who still hasn't gotten his story of his type of magic, of him becoming SS. Maybe in his third film, I guess.

[Albert1981]

I'm not convinced that the MoM makes nearly a billion dollars if it wasn't connected to NWH. And the five month delay between NWH and the MoM helped build anticipation. It IS impressive that Strange and Wanda could headline a movie and have it do so well. They are not NEARLY as famous as Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Hulk, and Spider-Man. And from I understand, Raimi did a pretty good job blending the superhero and horror genres. I think it's wild that an MCU movie is getting attention MOSTLY because of its director as opposed to its actors/actresses. But I believe the word of mouth for Strange 2 has been TERRIBLE though.

[Galerion]

It's fine that you like her portrayal in the movie, but you're just misrepresenting what her fans are saying.

We're not upset because Wanda didn't get a happy ending. We're upset because WandaVision established Wanda as someone who would rather wipe her children from existence than torture people, and this movie threw away all her established characterization to make her a psycho who wants to kill a child, and anyone else who gets in her way, so she can kidnap copies of her children.

It's fine to have characters do bad things if they are convincingly in character. Most of Wanda's fans believed her misdeeds in "WandaVision" were in character. Everything she did in this movie is something Wanda would never do, which is why they use the evil book as a lazy excuse (which also contradicts WandaVision, where the book was not portrayed as having that total corrupting effect).

I would rather see Wanda unhappy and in-character than happy and out-of-character. There were ways to have her do wrong in this film and still be in-character; they decided to have her turn into a totally different person offscreen for no good reason, and turn back into her old self at the last minute for no good reason.

All anyone wants for their favorite characters is good writing. That's it.

While also as someone who is not willing to fully take responsibility for her actions. She ran away and became basically wanted criminal instead of actually facing justice from the authorities after all and this from someone who was even publicly known as an Avenger. She also basically permanently brainwashed a person into someone else as punishment after rendering said person powerless(Agatha).

Don't cherry pick here. Wanda was always capable of showing heroic but also quite villainous behavior. That's what makes her arguably into such good character. A trait that she ironically shares with Magneto.

[Frontier]

All i wanted in the FFH sequel was a continuation of that story. Instead they went big and crazy and made billions lol

All I wanted in DS2 was a continuation of the story.. the bill comes do... real Mordo not another multiverse one... instead they went big and crazy and... might make a billion lol.

It seems the GA just wants big and crazy tbh.

BP2 is doing the same thing by bringing in Namor instead of just continuing the dang story (being a king =/= being a good man... when you open other world you get their problems, ect)

I'm kind of amazed the actual Mordo isn't even in it.

While also as someone who is not willing to fully take responsibility for her actions. She ran away and became basically wanted criminal instead of actually facing justice from the authorities after all and this from someone who was even publicly known as an Avenger. She also basically permanently brainwashed a person into someone else as punishment after rendering said person powerless(Agatha).

Don't cherry pick here. Wanda was always capable of showing heroic but also quite villainous behavior. That's what makes her arguably into such good character. A trait that she ironically shares with Magneto.

I always felt like they made her far too culpable in Westview than she should've been.

[Force de Phenix]

It's fine that you like her portrayal in the movie, but you're just misrepresenting what her fans are saying.

We're not upset because Wanda didn't get a happy ending. We're upset because WandaVision established Wanda as someone who would rather wipe her children from existence than torture people, and this movie threw away all her established characterization to make her a psycho who wants to kill a child, and anyone else who gets in her way, so she can kidnap copies of her children.

It's fine to have characters do bad things if they are convincingly in character. Most of Wanda's fans believed her misdeeds in "WandaVision" were in character. Everything she did in this movie is something Wanda would never do, which is why they use the evil book as a lazy excuse (which also contradicts WandaVision, where the book was not portrayed as having that total corrupting effect).

I would rather see Wanda unhappy and in-character than happy and out-of-character. There were ways to have her do wrong in this film and still be in-character; they decided to have her turn into a totally different person offscreen for no good reason, and turn back into her old self at the last minute for no good reason.

All anyone wants for their favorite characters is good writing. That's it.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I didn't make a blanket statement because Wanda fans liked the movie too, unless you want to make a generalization about who's a real Wanda fan.

[gurkle]

While also as someone who is not willing to fully take responsibility for her actions. She ran away and became basically wanted criminal instead of actually facing justice from the authorities after all and this from someone who was even publicly known as an Avenger. She also basically permanently brainwashed a person into someone else as punishment after rendering said person powerless(Agatha).

Don't cherry pick here. Wanda was always capable of showing heroic but also quite villainous behavior. That's what makes her arguably into such good character. A trait that she ironically shares with Magneto.

I'm not cherry picking. There is an enormous grey area between hero and villain, and the fact that Wanda did bad or cruel things in her show, which no one denies, is not enough setup for her becoming a psychotic villain, particularly to get back some version of the kids she willingly gave up rather than hurt people.

There is a story to be told about her becoming villainous. Instead we leave her when she's clearly not a villain, and next time we see her, she is summoning demons to try and kill a child. Why? Because of a book, which wasn't even portrayed as an all-corrupting force in the show where she got it.

Just like House of M made her want to wipe out mutants with absolutely no precedent or reason given for it, this movie made her into a villain offscreen with no precedent or reason for it beyond "book bad."

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I didn't make a blanket statement because Wanda fans liked the movie too, unless you want to make a generalization about who's a real Wanda fan.

I don't think someone who liked the movie isn't a real Wanda fan. But why claim that people who don't like it just want to see her happy and safe? That's obviously not the reason.

[Force de Phenix]

Sure, because Wanda hasn't been given a break, but I don't think that happiness has to be eating cereal or some other ridiculousness. Other characters in the MCU are not reduced like that. Why would she need to be?

It's not the worst but it's down there. It's even down there in ratings for Phase 4 so far. SW is a highlight, but also most of the acting is, but it doesn't save the script.

I'd like more Marvel cartoons and cartoon movies. I don't think they've done a cartoon movie in a long time. I think the last one was Strange's movie, which handled his lore much better than the movies have so far.

I don't have a problem with people liking ITMoM. Opinions are not toxic. They are just something you agree or disagree with. Anytime you get several people together on a public forum, there's gonna be different points of view.

There haven't been that mainly good MCU movies. Especially since they made almost all of them comedies because people aren't interested in these characters and making people laugh is the only way you'd get people to sit through a lot of these movies. And a lot of MCU characters have been reduced to literal jokes. Wanda is one of the only ones who's actually taken seriously since Agents of Shield and the Netflix series.

[Force de Phenix]

She also basically permanently brainwashed a person into someone else as punishment after rendering said person powerless(Agatha).

Turning Agatha Harkness into Ned Flanders was creative. I guess she saw some episodes of the Simpsons in Sokovia.