Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

Except they never actually teamed up in the place. Peter fought the villains all on his own.

Not a direct team-up, but the involvement of Iron Man in Peter's life still went too far.

[CosmiComic]

Not a direct team-up, but the involvement of Iron Man in Peter's life still went too far.

I don't really agree. Iron Man wanted to help him out but in the end he went his own way. Idk what exactly is the problem here. Except maybe not designing the main Spider-suit from the beginning

[Frontier]

I don't really agree. Iron Man wanted to help him out but in the end he went his own way. Idk what exactly is the problem here. Except maybe not designing the main Spider-suit from the beginning

I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of all my issues with Homecoming in this thread, so I'll just say that Tony's influence in that movie, both direct and indirect, was far more pervasive than it should've been in a movie about Spider-Man, and it doesn't stop with that one film.

But that's just my take.

[CosmiComic]

I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of all my issues with Homecoming in this thread, so I'll just say that Tony's influence in that movie, both direct and indirect, was far more pervasive than it should've been in a movie about Spider-Man, and it doesn't stop with that one film.

But that's just my take.

Ok. I didn't feel it was too much for the most part. That's where I'm at

[CTTT]

I hate the whole mentor thing. I thought FFH was going to move past it, but they really didn't do it enough in my opinion.

Granted I'm not sure how much Holland we'll still get so it might be a moot issue.

Why would FFH move past it though? It was the end of Phase 3 and coming on the heels of Endgame. Why would Peter as a character ignore such a big event and what he and others went through with fighting Thanos and Tony's sacrifice? Completely ignoring doesn't make sense. There should be fallout from that and he should feel a sense of loss. The Peter/Happy scene shows that.

[CosmiComic]

Why would FFH move past it though? It was the end of Phase 3 and coming on the heels of Endgame. Why would Peter as a character ignore such a big event and what he and others went through with fighting Thanos and Tony's sacrifice? Completely ignoring doesn't make sense. There should be fallout from that and he should feel a sense of loss. The Peter/Happy scene shows that.

Exactly. NWH is probably when they'll move past it.

[CTTT]

I don't really agree. Iron Man wanted to help him out but in the end he went his own way. Idk what exactly is the problem here. Except maybe not designing the main Spider-suit from the beginning

I agree with you on this. Tony's involvement in Homecoming was minimal. He shows up in 3 scenes. One of them being important reminding Peter that he shouldn't feel like he's nothing without his Spider suit. He wasn't involved in the Vulture plot at all. Peter handled it.

[CosmiComic]

I agree with you on this. Tony's involvement in Homecoming was minimal. He shows up in 3 scenes. One of them being important reminding Peter that he shouldn't feel like he's nothing without his Spider suit. He wasn't involved in the Vulture plot at all. Peter handled it.

Exactly. It's not like the Avengers took over the film like in Civil War. The problem was just he was too young compared to other heroes

[MindofShadow]

I agree with you on this. Tony's involvement in Homecoming was minimal. He shows up in 3 scenes. One of them being important reminding Peter that he shouldn't feel like he's nothing without his Spider suit. He wasn't involved in the Vulture plot at all. Peter handled it.

Eh... this is a little reductionist.

He may have technically only been in 4 scenes but his presence was throughout the movie. THe bad guy was because of Stark. Parker was always texting or thinking about him until Stark "dumped" him.

And two of the 4 scenes involved Stark directly saving Peters ass (drowning and the ferry).

And then we get to FFH and... it is another Stark villain. I don't mind the weight of starks death being on Peter, but did the bad guy really have to be another "its starks fault!' guy?

[Frontier]

Why would FFH move past it though? It was the end of Phase 3 and coming on the heels of Endgame. Why would Peter as a character ignore such a big event and what he and others went through with fighting Thanos and Tony's sacrifice? Completely ignoring doesn't make sense. There should be fallout from that and he should feel a sense of loss. The Peter/Happy scene shows that.

Because it was about Peter moving past Tony's legacy (I don't think they did a good job of it, but whatever)? I get why they did from an in-universe standpoint but it was still too much focus on Iron Man within a Spider-Man movie.

I agree with you on this. Tony's involvement in Homecoming was minimal. He shows up in 3 scenes. One of them being important reminding Peter that he shouldn't feel like he's nothing without his Spider suit. He wasn't involved in the Vulture plot at all. Peter handled it.

He was in 3 scenes but I feel like those three scenes and his overall impact on Peter is felt far more than it should have been. That Tony needed to be the one to tell Peter that lesson is super problematic in my opinion.

And Tony's actions inspired Vulture's entire motivation. Just like they did with Mysterio in FFH.

[CosmiComic]

I didn't mind Vulture being connected to Stark, but I didn't think Mysterio needed to be. he could've just wanted to beat spider-Man

But the MCU does this a lot. Stark never fights Mandarin or Ghost, and Hank Pym never fights Ultron. Doesn't mean those heroes are inferior (except Hank's portrayal)

[Frontier]

But the MCU does this a lot. Stark never fights Mandarin or Ghost, and Hank Pym never fights Ultron. Doesn't mean those heroes are inferior (except Hank's portrayal)

I think there's a difference between a Rogues Gallery transplant and taking an established heroes' villain, have them still fight that hero, but connect their motivation to an entirely different hero.

Of course, I would personally prefer heroes fight their own villains. Granted Ultron is ultimately an Avengers villain at the end of the day, so...

[CosmiComic]

I think there's a difference between a Rogues Gallery transplant and taking an established heroes' villain, have them still fight that hero, but connect their motivation to an entirely different hero.

Of course, I would personally prefer heroes fight their own villains. Granted Ultron is ultimately an Avengers villain at the end of the day, so...

A rogues gallery transplant is a bigger change than just changing who initially led the villain down the path of evil.

And while Ultron is an Avengers villain, he's most closely connected to Hank and Jan. Taking them out of the equation was an actual detrimental change IMO, unlike making Vulture hate Tony Stark

[CTTT]

Because it was about Peter moving past Tony's legacy (I don't think they did a good job of it, but whatever)? I get why they did from an in-universe standpoint but it was still too much focus on Iron Man within a Spider-Man movie.

He was in 3 scenes but I feel like those three scenes and his overall impact on Peter is felt far more than it should have been. That Tony needed to be the one to tell Peter that lesson is super problematic in my opinion.

And Tony's actions inspired Vulture's entire motivation. Just like they did with Mysterio in FFH.

And again, why move so quickly past it? Think of it this way, if you suffer the loss of a family member or friend, you don't just wake up the day after the funeral, dust your hands off and say "well, that's that". Depending on the relationship with the person, it'll stick with you. Same with Peter/Tony. It was established as a mentor/mentee relationship from the getgo in CW. Plus Peter in CW and Homecoming is still learning how to grasp being a hero. The 3 scenes, again minimal. He was reminding Peter that he needed to be more without the suit than with it. Why, you ask? Because he's a high schooler still maturing both in personal life and as an Avenger. Did you know everything as a teen? Teens sometimes think they do, but they don't. So, did IM defeat Vulture? No, Peter accomplished it. So, Tony's presence didn't overshadow the character arc in Homecoming.

[CosmiComic]

And again, why move so quickly past it? Think of it this way, if you suffer the loss of a family member or friend, you don't just wake up the day after the funeral, dust your hands off and say "well, that's that". Depending on the relationship with the person, it'll stick with you. Same with Peter/Tony. It was established as a mentor/mentee relationship from the getgo in CW. Plus Peter in CW and Homecoming is still learning how to grasp being a hero. The 3 scenes, again minimal. He was reminding Peter that he needed to be more without the suit than with it. Why, you ask? Because he's a high schooler still maturing both in personal life and as an Avenger. Did you know everything as a teen? Teens sometimes think they do, but they don't. So, did IM defeat Vulture? No, Peter accomplished it. So, Tony's presence didn't overshadow the character arc in Homecoming.

Yeah, I don't really see the problem in one hero advising another one what to do, especially when the other is much younger.