Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Ravin' Ray]

But my point is: why can't spies have powers too?

Whoops, sorry about that. I get what you mean know. But yeah, a spy with actual superpowers might actually be interesting

I don't think anyone's saying they shouldn't, it should just be were applicable.

Like invisibility for example.

[CosmiComic]

I don't think anyone's saying they shouldn't, it should just be were applicable.

I don't really think Black Widow and Mockingbird should have overt powers although I guess in the comics they're all technically Super Soldiers now? Or something like that, I'm not sure about Widow other than her aging slowing down.

I think BW has had some enhancements.

Anyway, maybe it doesn't fit those characters, but I've never bought the whole spy concept from that type if characters. In a world of superheroes, just being able to punch people isn't really interesting enough for espionage IMO

Oh I totally agree.

Did you ever read DC's short-lived but excellent title, The Silencer? She was a former assassin/spy for the League of Assassins who tried to go legit and get out of the game, built a family for herself, and then got pulled back into action. Had some cool noise-cancellation powers that were pretty fantastic for covert stuff. Might be worth your time.

I think publishers are under the impression that powers should be full of spectacle, and powers suited to espionage aren't as compelling/interesting because they have to be subtle. I don't agree with the notion but I can't really think of any other reason why most spies in comics are powerless humans while everyone else is blowing up buildings with their mind bullets.

i haven't read Silencer, but I'll check it out.

I'm not sure why comics equate powers with explosions, outside of lack of imagination. IMO there's a lot of potential for someone with more clandestine usage of superpowers to make for interesting stories.

[CosmiComic]

Like invisibility for example.

Yeah, like invisibility. Something that actually says "spy" to me, instead of just wearing black leather. If an actually interesting character had Sue Storm's powers, for example, that could be cool

[Frontier]

I think BW has had some enhancements.

Anyway, maybe it doesn't fit those characters, but I've never bought the whole spy concept from that type if characters. In a world of superheroes, just being able to punch people isn't really interesting enough for espionage IMO

Widow's more of a finesse kind of fighter than a straight up brawler. Mockingbird has her staves.

Bucky's probably the most brute force.

[Sutekh]

Dazzler and Skids have, IIRC, both worked for SHIELD briefly before, and it could be neat to see either of them as secret agents or spies.

Dazzler's fame seems like a downside, but opens doors for her to hobnob with a higher class of folk, and also kind of serves as it's own cover, as nobody expects a celebrity pop star to be smuggling documents or infiltrating secure facilities on her foreign tour dates. Her powers are kinda neat for an agent as well, being able to 'silence' a room (and alarms, and cries for help...) and produce dazzling incapacitating lights (or lasering her way through a lock...).

Skids has the force field thing, which would be neat in that it more or less makes her both bulletproof and ungrapple-able, and yet, now that she can control it, isn't obvious or unsubtle (unless she wants it to be!).

And then there's Sabra, my favorite super-secret-agent/spy. She's got tech that allows flight and sedative stings, paralleling the old Widow's sting, but also super-strength that lets her rip a door off it's hinges, snap a gun in half or throw an enemy combatant thirty feet.

While I enjoy a good Black Widow (or James Bond) tale, about non-super spies, I'd love to see a decent spy story with someone with powers, maybe even some powers that aren't obvious 'spy powers.' (Like Dazzler. Her powers *can* be amazingly useful for a spy, but she's hardly the first person you'd think of!)

Domino's recent mini-series (with Outback and Diamondback) had a sort of 'agent' feel to it, come to think of it, and I'd be fine with seeing some other lesser used spy types, like Mockingbird, get some play.

Or maybe even a dude? Do dudes still spy in the Marvel universe, or is a leather catsuit evocative of Emma Peel now a requisite?

[John Venus]

Who controls the NWH release date anyway? Disney or Sony?


But... it feels like it is studios running away from the inevitable.

The Box office is simply not going to recover to "old" numbers for a long long long long long time. And even if it starts to, you are going to get so many movies smashed together they are going to eat each other .

OTOH, this could lead to the revival of more 'mid budget' smaller scale movies that seemed like it was on it's death bed because studios were investing in more profitable tent pole movies.

[John Venus]

I hope I’m wrong, but I do suspect the pandemic has dealt the MCU a mortal wound

The only question is how much of the unreleased movies are too far gone to be changed, and how many will be cut to the bone to compensate for the reduced box office expectations and Disney’s own troubled financies

It's going to hurt their big blockbuster movies but they are doing well on streaming so they might just shift more projects to D+ or make movies directly for streaming.

[CosmiComic]

Widow's more of a finesse kind of fighter than a straight up brawler. Mockingbird has her staves.

Bucky's probably the most brute force.

Ok

Dazzler and Skids have, IIRC, both worked for SHIELD briefly before, and it could be neat to see either of them as secret agents or spies.

Dazzler's fame seems like a downside, but opens doors for her to hobnob with a higher class of folk, and also kind of serves as it's own cover, as nobody expects a celebrity pop star to be smuggling documents or infiltrating secure facilities on her foreign tour dates. Her powers are kinda neat for an agent as well, being able to 'silence' a room (and alarms, and cries for help...) and produce dazzling incapacitating lights (or lasering her way through a lock...).

Skids has the force field thing, which would be neat in that it more or less makes her both bulletproof and ungrapple-able, and yet, now that she can control it, isn't obvious or unsubtle (unless she wants it to be!).

And then there's Sabra, my favorite super-secret-agent/spy. She's got tech that allows flight and sedative stings, paralleling the old Widow's sting, but also super-strength that lets her rip a door off it's hinges, snap a gun in half or throw an enemy combatant thirty feet.

While I enjoy a good Black Widow (or James Bond) tale, about non-super spies, I'd love to see a decent spy story with someone with powers, maybe even some powers that aren't obvious 'spy powers.' (Like Dazzler. Her powers *can* be amazingly useful for a spy, but she's hardly the first person you'd think of!)

Domino's recent mini-series (with Outback and Diamondback) had a sort of 'agent' feel to it, come to think of it, and I'd be fine with seeing some other lesser used spy types, like Mockingbird, get some play.

Or maybe even a dude? Do dudes still spy in the Marvel universe, or is a leather catsuit evocative of Emma Peel now a requisite?

I don't get the leather suit thing either. Seems more "biker" than "spy" to me.

But I agree, an actual super spy would be interesting. Somebody from the Spider-family or Ant-family, for example, could have the right powers. Or even someone like Hulkling or Nightcrawler. Not sure about Dazzler, because I don't really follow her

[Frontier]

I don't get the leather suit thing either. Seems more "biker" than "spy" to me.

But I agree, an actual super spy would be interesting. Somebody from the Spider-family or Ant-family, for example, could have the right powers. Or even someone like Hulkling or Nightcrawler. Not sure about Dazzler, because I don't really follow her

I think the idea is that a form-fitting black leather outfit blends into the surrounding better and cleaner movement.

[Panic]

I think the idea is that a form-fitting black leather outfit blends into the surrounding better and cleaner movement.

Well, the real reason is because the Black Widow's look was redesigned after the British 'spy-fi' show The Avengers became a hit in the States, with Diana Rigg's leather-wearing, kung fu practicing Emma Peel influencing Natasha's look.

In the show, of course, Steed and Peel were not spies but spy-catchers, amongst other things, but the iconic look kind of remained 'spy-adjacent' in the public consciousness for a long while.

[Vic Vega]

Oh I totally agree.

Did you ever read DC's short-lived but excellent title, The Silencer? She was a former assassin/spy for the League of Assassins who tried to go legit and get out of the game, built a family for herself, and then got pulled back into action. Had some cool noise-cancellation powers that were pretty fantastic for covert stuff. Might be worth your time.

I think publishers are under the impression that powers should be full of spectacle, and powers suited to espionage aren't as compelling/interesting because they have to be subtle. I don't agree with the notion but I can't really think of any other reason why most spies in comics are powerless humans while everyone else is blowing up buildings with their mind bullets.

I assume the thinking was that much of the how and what a Agent does to do his work the scouting, prep, infiltration and so on.., is the interesting stuff about his job.

If you were to make say, make James Bond a shapeshifter his job becomes easier and therefore less interesting. Unless you add a drawback to the gimmick.

Like DC freelance Spy Christopher Chance, his disguises are near impenetrable but, the longer he stays undercover the more he becomes like the person he is impersonating to the point where he forgets who he really is.

Most superpowered spies in comics tend to have gimmicks like Wolverine, Deathstroke and so on. They have abilities that make them better fighters but have nothing to do with spying.

[CosmiComic]

I think the idea is that a form-fitting black leather outfit blends into the surrounding better and cleaner movement.

That would be something in the universe of James Bond, but with all the high tech stuff in the MU, that seems like it'll barely do anything

[CosmiComic]

I assume the thinking was that much of the how and what a Agent does to do his work the scouting, prep, infiltration and so on.., is the interesting stuff about his job.

If you were to make say, make James Bond a shapeshifter his job becomes easier and therefore less interesting. Unless you add a drawback to the gimmick.

Like DC freelance Spy Christopher Chance, his disguises are near impenetrable but, the longer he stays undercover the more he becomes like the person he is impersonating to the point where he forgets who he really is.

Most superpowered spies in comics tend to have gimmicks like Wolverine, Deathstroke and so on. They have abilities that make them better fighters but have nothing to do with spying.

Why would it be less interesting? That's like saying Thor is less interesting because he's super powerful. I don't think anyone's saying a spy has to be invincible. Just that actually using superpowers for espionage can be entertaining. Plus, somehow Black Widow can fight off aliens and robots anyway, so her not being superpowered just becomes superfluous anyway

[Frontier]

That would be something in the universe of James Bond, but with all the high tech stuff in the MU, that seems like it'll barely do anything

Costumes are costumes .

Why would it be less interesting? That's like saying Thor is less interesting because he's super powerful. I don't think anyone's saying a spy has to be invincible. Just that actually using superpowers for espionage can be entertaining. Plus, somehow Black Widow can fight off aliens and robots anyway, so her not being superpowered just becomes superfluous anyway

Well, she has her Widow Bites and the movies have given her additional weapons.

[CosmiComic]

Costumes are costumes .

I guess so. Costumes don't necessarily need functionality, so long as they don't look anti-functional or completely bizarre.

Well, she has her Widow Bites and the movies have given her additional weapons.

She does have that. But even then, I always saw some level of inconsistency with the power levels in the MCU. Of course, that's probably inevitable to some extent with such a big fictional universe, but it can make it hard for me to suspend disbelief at times