Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[CosmiComic]

It's not a team up. Spider-Man never teams up with any superheroes during the actual battles or even when he's tracking down the villains. He does it all alone. So I don't get these complaints at all. It's a shared universe. He's going to work with other people and that's perfectly fine.

If any fans should complain, it's captain America fans about CA3 become Avengers 2.5. Literally every other sequel right now is a team up except Spider-Man (unless Maguire and Garfield show up). So Spider-Man should receive the least complaints in that regard at least.

[John Venus]

Nah, it's definitely a team up.

[CosmiComic]

Nah, it's definitely a team up.

How so? Strange probably won't be there during the actual fight scenes. Peter always does it by himself. I don't follow your logic here.

[Frontier]

The battle on Wakanda was cool, but it was still mostly h2h, and frankly looked downright medieval at times. Seeing Scarlet Witch needing to be saved by Black Widow and Okoye, for example, was a real stretch to me. I'm not interested in seeing punching and kicking and spears when I could see superheroes with superpowers, and advanced technology, which Wakanda has plenty of.

Titan was solid though, especially Thanos' 1 on 1 fight with Strange and with Iron Man.

I feel like an epic fight is an epic fight so long as the execution works.

It's not a team up. Spider-Man never teams up with any superheroes during the actual battles or even when he's tracking down the villains. He does it all alone. So I don't get these complaints at all. It's a shared universe. He's going to work with other people and that's perfectly fine.

If any fans should complain, it's captain America fans about CA3 become Avengers 2.5. Literally every other sequel right now is a team up except Spider-Man (unless Maguire and Garfield show up). So Spider-Man should receive the least complaints in that regard at least.

I don't think CA3 being so Avengers-focused was so much an issue because Steve and his cast was still front and center, more or less (they still kind of screwed over Sharon) and his status as leader of The Avengers and a political figure made it relevant as a Captain America movie.

And Steve is able to stand on his own with other heroes better than they write Holland as within his own movies, which I think is why it's a problem despite there not being an official on-screen team-up. Well, that and Holland's other characterization issues as MCU Spider-Man.

[CosmiComic]

I feel like an epic fight is an epic fight so long as the execution works.

I found the execution generally entertaining but logistically questionable, and I find watching characters like Black Widow fighting aliens marginally interesting at best

I don't think CA3 being so Avengers-focused was so much an issue because Steve and his cast was still front and center, more or less (they still kind of screwed over Sharon) and his status as leader of The Avengers and a political figure made it relevant as a Captain America movie.

Yeah, but like you said, they still screwed over Sharon. I don't recall the Avengers showing up and getting rid of MJ in FFH

And Steve is able to stand on his own with other heroes better than they write Holland as within his own movies, which I think is why it's a problem despite there not being an official on-screen team-up. Well, that and Holland's other characterization issues as MCU Spider-Man.

Except MCU Spider-Man still does everything by himself in the final battle. No one else ever shows up. Contrast that with Civil War, or Ragnarok, or any upcoming sequel, like MoM, Quantumania, Marvels, etc. So he's still the most independent of all of them.

[chicago_bastard]

Regarding the complaints that other MCU characters show up in Spidey's movies: The deal between Marvel and Sony requires that one Avengers character appears in Spidey's solo films, that's why Tony, Fury and now Stephen are in them.

[Frontier]

I found the execution generally entertaining but logistically questionable, and I find watching characters like Black Widow fighting aliens marginally interesting at best

I like Black Widow, so I guess it didn't bother me that much...

Yeah, but like you said, they still screwed over Sharon. I don't recall the Avengers showing up and getting rid of MJ in FFH

Maybe a few less Tony Stark or Happy scenes could have developed Michelle better, though.

Except MCU Spider-Man still does everything by himself in the final battle. No one else ever shows up. Contrast that with Civil War, or Ragnarok, or any upcoming sequel, like MoM, Quantumania, Marvels, etc. So he's still the most independent of all of them.

I think the FFH final battle was better than Homecoming, but still too much Tony Stark and his world to where I feel like it's a problem even without a direct team-up.

I just don't think it's done Peter or his world any favors and they can't keep his independence consistent.

Regarding the complaints that other MCU characters show up in Spidey's movies: The deal between Marvel and Sony requires that one Avengers character appears in Spidey's solo films, that's why Tony, Fury and now Stephen are in them.

I wonder if this is part of why MCU Spider-Man feels so gimmicky to me.

[Dipter]

Fans spent years begging for spider-man to join the MCU so they could watch him interact with other heroes, and now that he’s here people say he’s not independent enough? I understand the complaints I guess, but after two similar solo franchises I was ready to embrace this drastically different interpretation of Peter. I don’t mind his relationship with Tony, I thought they made for a charming pair. The potential of the Spider-Man franchise peaked with Raimi, and I think Sony knows they can’t achieve that quality again, so might as well makes some weird ensemble movies instead.

[MindofShadow]

I wonder if this is part of why MCU Spider-Man feels so gimmicky to me.

I'm hoping Strange is more of an actual team up vs telling Peter what to do and/or scolding him.

But also... I don't mind Peter teaming up... I just don't like how it has been handled so far. big difference.

One weird thing though... first two villains were mostly Iron Man cast off villains.

And now it seems the villains for FFH might just be... other spider-man villains lol. Not Holland-Man. Just kinda weird.

[CosmiComic]

I like Black Widow, so I guess it didn't bother me that much...

I find her a bit boring. I can get punching and kicking anywhere, and her backstory and personality have never really interested me.

Maybe a few less Tony Stark or Happy scenes could have developed Michelle better, though.

How much does she need to be developed? I'd be all for it, but maybe that'll happen in this movie.

I think the FFH final battle was better than Homecoming, but still too much Tony Stark and his world to where I feel like it's a problem even without a direct team-up.

I just don't think it's done Peter or his world any favors and they can't keep his independence consistent.

I don't agree at all. Not about the "too much Tony Stark" thing, but it's not a team up unless they do an actual team up. In every battle he's more independent than any other hero. This hasn't changed just because some other hero was in the movie earlier outside of battle.

I wonder if this is part of why MCU Spider-Man feels so gimmicky to me.

I don't get his either. I don't even know what you mean by gimmicky.

Do you think any of this applies to any other other superhero in the MCU? Because they've all teamed up with someone else at some point, only it was actual team ups and not whatever happened in the Spider-man movies

[CosmiComic]

Fans spent years begging for spider-man to join the MCU so they could watch him interact with other heroes, and now that he’s here people say he’s not independent enough? I understand the complaints I guess, but after two similar solo franchises I was ready to embrace this drastically different interpretation of Peter. I don’t mind his relationship with Tony, I thought they made for a charming pair. The potential of the Spider-Man franchise peaked with Raimi, and I think Sony knows they can’t achieve that quality again, so might as well makes some weird ensemble movies instead.

I don't get it either. Do people just want a bunch of other solo movies where he just pines after MJ and tries to keep his id secret? Because that's become so cliche. And he's still more solo than anyone else.

I do agree with the complaints of him not really being independent enough, as in finding his own missions. And honestly, Mysterio didn't need to be connected to Iron Man IMO. I've said elsewhere he should've been older and more established from the get go, and not a Stark protege.

[MindofShadow]

Shang is off to the standard MCU start review wise

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/shan..._the_ten_rings

[CosmiComic]

Hopefully that stays up, but we'll see. I've heard early reactions tend to be over-positive.

[Frontier]

I'm hoping Strange is more of an actual team up vs telling Peter what to do and/or scolding him.

But also... I don't mind Peter teaming up... I just don't like how it has been handled so far. big difference.

One weird thing though... first two villains were mostly Iron Man cast off villains.

And now it seems the villains for FFH might just be... other spider-man villains lol. Not Holland-Man. Just kinda weird.

Why is it so hard to give Holland his own villains? Either they hate Tony Stark first or they end up being the villains from other Spider-Men.

I find her a bit boring. I can get punching and kicking anywhere, and her backstory and personality have never really interested me.

I like her a lot...I mean, in general. I loved Marjorie Liu's Black Widow run.

How much does she need to be developed? I'd be all for it, but maybe that'll happen in this movie.

Quite a bit, I would hope.

I don't agree at all. Not about the "too much Tony Stark" thing, but it's not a team up unless they do an actual team up. In every battle he's more independent than any other hero. This hasn't changed just because some other hero was in the movie earlier outside of battle.

Don't most MCU heroes still fight their final battles solo even with guest heroes, though?

I don't get his either. I don't even know what you mean by gimmicky.

Do you think any of this applies to any other other superhero in the MCU? Because they've all teamed up with someone else at some point, only it was actual team ups and not whatever happened in the Spider-man movies

Feels like he just relies on gimmicks, like the Iron Man dynamic, having to be the "kid" of the Avengers, being away from New York half the time, his identity getting outed, hanging out with not!Nick Fury, the Multiverse, etc.

At least in my opinion.

I don't get it either. Do people just want a bunch of other solo movies where he just pines after MJ and tries to keep his id secret? Because that's become so cliche. And he's still more solo than anyone else. .

I feel like you are underestimating the story potential for the character.

Shang is off to the standard MCU start review wise

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/shan..._the_ten_rings

Good to hear .

[CosmiComic]

Why is it so hard to give Holland his own villains? Either they hate Tony Stark first or they end up being the villains from other Spider-Men.

I agree on Mysterio, but that's like saying Zemo isn't Captain America's villain because Ultron killed his family. Or Thanos isn't an Avengers villain because he killed Drax's family and kidnapped Gamora

I like her a lot...I mean, in general. I loved Marjorie Liu's Black Widow run.

I thought you mean just the movies. But in general, I'm not into Marvel's spy stuff because it's too "grounded"

Quite a bit, I would hope.

Hopefully that happens at some point.

Don't most MCU heroes still fight their final battles solo even with guest heroes, though?

To some extent. IM2, CA2/3, all 3 Thor movies depending on your definition of hero, had team up battles, and more will come in the future. But in the Spider-Man movies, no other hero ever shows up during the final battle

Feels like he just relies on gimmicks, like the Iron Man dynamic, having to be the "kid" of the Avengers, being away from New York half the time, his identity getting outed, hanging out with not!Nick Fury, the Multiverse, etc.

At least in my opinion.

How are these gimmicks? Maybe we have different definitions, but these are just new story developments to differentiate him from previous appearances, whether they're good or bad. Gimmick is something companies use to sell toys or something like that. Spider-Man has been gimmicky (like all superheroes) long before the mCU

I feel like you are underestimating the story potential for the character.

Quite the opposite. I always like seeing Peter Parker do something new. But some of the stuff from the comics is outdated IMO, so I don't mind it being changed.

Good to hear .

Agreed.