Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[inisideguy]

if you take out the mystical hidden secret kung fu asian city and dragon... what are you left with exactly origin wise?

I mean so he is offensive to asian cultures because he got his power from asian culture? I guess I'm confused here.

[Wiccan]

I mean so he is offensive to asian cultures because he got his power from asian culture? I guess I'm confused here.

Basically, yeah. Imagine if Black Panther wasn't T'Challa, but some white guy whose plane crashed on Wakanda when he was a kid... And then his entire identity and powers are based on African culture, fighting tehcniques and a fictional african country, which btw out of all the black people in there, the foreign white guy just happened to be the best one who rightfully earned the biggest title and power of their culture.

[CosmiComic]

Basically, yeah. Imagine if Black Panther wasn't T'Challa, but some white guy whose plane crashed on Wakanda when he was a kid... And then his entire identity and powers are based on African culture, fighting tehcniques and a fictional african country, which btw out of all the black people in there, the foreign white guy just happened to be the best one who rightfully earned the biggest title and power of their culture.

Basically Tarzan but with tech. I wouldn't be surprised if Hollywood tried to do something as insane as this

[inisideguy]

Basically, yeah. Imagine if Black Panther wasn't T'Challa, but some white guy whose plane crashed on Wakanda when he was a kid... And then his entire identity and powers are based on African culture, fighting tehcniques and a fictional african country, which btw out of all the black people in there, the foreign white guy just happened to be the best one who rightfully earned the biggest title and power of their culture.

Hmmm. I guess since I am not asian I never thought about it like that. So in the comics isn't the power of the Iron Fist inherited from one generation to another and it chooses random people no matter what the race or background?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Maybe something like Secret Invasion, assuming SWORD is involved?

Sure.

Well I sort of get that. But like I just asked, why couldn't they revamp his origin?

That's why they wanna make him East Asian as it changes the subtext of the character. It's more shortsighted to me because it doesn't address his other problems but i get the impulse.

MindofShadow tackled this in his response. Without K'un L'un and Danny fighting Shou-lao the undying to get the chi powers, all you have left is the revenge stuff and the heir to the company stuff.

But there are other alternatives like Atlantis, Otherworld or Attilan as the source of his powers. His dad usually has a connection to K'un L'un so swap out K'un L'un for one of those and he's golden.

[Derek Metaltron]

They're going to introduce a rebooted Iron Fist as part of a Heroes for Hire show id bet.

They can't exactly pick and mix what they want from the Netflix Marvel shows (like Daredevil and Jessica Jones over on She Hulk) without expecting some backlash from some fans about the rest being absent though. I'd say get all the Netflix shows onto Disney Plus and then carry on with the same casts in some new shows. Heroes for Hire with the return of Luke, Misty, Danny and Colleen would be awesome. Plus new Daredevil and Punisher projects and something else with Jessica (assuming she's not in HFH).

[jwatson]

So with the Success of Shang Chi does anyone think they will introduce Iron Fist into the MCU? I have read many things saying it will never happen because he is a white guy and its not politically correct. Maybe I am ignorant and someone with more knowledge about this can help me. But why is this character problematic? I mean he wouldn't be the first white guy to do martial arts stuff.

I don't know if he is problematic but i do know his Netflix show was by FAR the worse for me. He was so whiney like ALL the time. And just poor poor rich danny rand. It just was not a good look at all. Colleen made that show work on what little level it did. Her and misty were what kept me watching.

[Derek Metaltron]

I don't know if he is problematic but i do know his Netflix show was by FAR the worse for me. He was so whiney like ALL the time. And just poor poor rich danny rand. It just was not a good look at all. Colleen made that show work on what little level it did. Her and misty were what kept me watching.

Blame that on the writing, not the character and actor. The guy who also messed up Inhumans (and will as a result see Kamala's powers and origins completely changed in her show) evidently thought Danny was just Oliver Queen but with a glowing fist. Different writers can do the character better - heck I gather that many felt Season 2 was a definite improvement over Season 1 (but by that point the decision was cancel was already made).

[jwatson]

Blame that on the writing, not the character and actor. The guy who also messed up Inhumans (and will as a result see Kamala's powers and origins completely changed in her show) evidently thought Danny was just Oliver Queen but with a glowing fist. Different writers can do the character better - heck I gather that many felt Season 2 was a definite improvement over Season 1 (but by that point the decision was cancel was already made).

Season 2 was a thousand times better. The pacing, the action scenes, more misty knight. there is no question imo season 2 was far and above season one. But now it makes sense because literally a lot o the same ticks Black Bolt had in his show Danny had on iron man and Black bolt was silent. so that tells me what i need to know.

[CosmiComic]

Sure.


That's why they wanna make him East Asian as it changes the subtext of the character. It's more shortsighted to me because it doesn't address his other problems but i get the impulse.

MindofShadow tackled this in his response. Without K'un L'un and Danny fighting Shou-lao the undying to get the chi powers, all you have left is the revenge stuff and the heir to the company stuff.

But there are other alternatives like Atlantis, Otherworld or Attilan as the source of his powers. His dad usually has a connection to K'un L'un so swap out K'un L'un for one of those and he's golden.

Isn't it more the White savior part that's the problem, rather than the origin of his powers? If Marvel can modernize Mandarin, it could do the same for IF

[Writerblog]

Basically, yeah. Imagine if Black Panther wasn't T'Challa, but some white guy whose plane crashed on Wakanda when he was a kid... And then his entire identity and powers are based on African culture, fighting tehcniques and a fictional african country, which btw out of all the black people in there, the foreign white guy just happened to be the best one who rightfully earned the biggest title and power of their culture.

Not the biggest problem since Shang Chi exists and is the true master of Kung fu

[John Venus]

I mean, one successful Asian lead in a 25 movie juggernaut doesn't really fix anything.

I think they can backdoor Iron Fist through Shang Chi by expanding what they've established in the latter's movie. Introduce the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven (or their own take on it) and through that introduce Ku'n-Lun and it's champion; the Immortal Iron Fist. Shang Chi is a martial arts franchise, fighting other marital artists is a huge part of the franchise.

[ZeroBG82]

Isn't it more the White savior part that's the problem, rather than the origin of his powers? If Marvel can modernize Mandarin, it could do the same for IF

All you really need to do is make the topic part of the story. Have even the people of K'un L'un be pissed that this outsider has won the title. Make Danny reflect on what it might imply about him as a person, his ego or his ambition or whatever, that he has gone into this place and taken their most sacred power for himself as an outsider to their culture. The appropriation angle doesn't need to be the center of your story, but make it part of the world. I think Danny feeling like he's earned the title fair and square, and not being entitled about it is a good step. Hell, explore how being transplanted from one culture into another causes people to adopt elements of their new one, or cling to elements of their old one.

I also think it helps that the Iron Fist is now a lineage. There were IF's before Danny, and there will be more after him. He isn't the sole, eternal proprietor of this power or this legacy. Just a part of it. As he benefits from immersing himself in the culture and lessons of the heavenly cities, do they perhaps also benefit from what he brings to the table as their champion? Can cultures share their traits to the benefit of both, rather than being a destructive or zero sum force?

I think there are multiple angles you could work, and explore. Myriad thematic ways to tie the ideas to the world without scarring either Danny or K'un L'un. Make Danny's role one of being educated rather than being educator. Of being a bridge between two worlds. Just don't ignore the inherent problems, address them head on.

[gonnagiveittoya]

They can't exactly pick and mix what they want from the Netflix Marvel shows (like Daredevil and Jessica Jones over on She Hulk) without expecting some backlash from some fans about the rest being absent though. I'd say get all the Netflix shows onto Disney Plus and then carry on with the same casts in some new shows. Heroes for Hire with the return of Luke, Misty, Danny and Colleen would be awesome. Plus new Daredevil and Punisher projects and something else with Jessica (assuming she's not in HFH).

Oh yeah I'm sure all 8 Iron Fist series fans will be pissed.

[G. Boney]

They've got Jimmy Woo and could launch Agents of Atlas starring him.

I hope they do.

Gemma Chan is also the lead in Eternals and Hawkeye/Hailee Steinfeld is mixed Asian. I think it would be okay if they relaunch IF as an Asian lead. Maybe pick up where the show left off and have Jessica Henwick as IF and kill off Finn Jones Danny Rand. Or maybe just go with a female IF from the start, I recall there was one in Brubaker's run. That will help set IF apart from Shang Chi.

I mentioned in another thread a while back that I'm glad there are multiple Asian actors in Eternals. Shang Chi is one of the few marvel characters to have his own title and the time period he came out in was what it was, so like or not he's the kung fu guy. So the mcu having other Asians with different abilities is a good thing.

As for Steinfeld I didn't know she was part asian until you said it lol. But I don't know if the character of Kate Bishop is going to be mixed just because the actor is. So any obvious representation is still up in the air.

As for continuing the Netflix Iron Fist...hopefully they won't lol. If he ever shows up again to be officially part of the mcu, I'm hoping he's recast. Same with Cage.