Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[CosmiComic]

All you really need to do is make the topic part of the story. Have even the people of K'un L'un be pissed that this outsider has won the title. Make Danny reflect on what it might imply about him as a person, his ego or his ambition or whatever, that he has gone into this place and taken their most sacred power for himself as an outsider to their culture. The appropriation angle doesn't need to be the center of your story, but make it part of the world. I think Danny feeling like he's earned the title fair and square, and not being entitled about it is a good step. Hell, explore how being transplanted from one culture into another causes people to adopt elements of their new one, or cling to elements of their old one.

I also think it helps that the Iron Fist is now a lineage. There were IF's before Danny, and there will be more after him. He isn't the sole, eternal proprietor of this power or this legacy. Just a part of it. As he benefits from immersing himself in the culture and lessons of the heavenly cities, do they perhaps also benefit from what he brings to the table as their champion? Can cultures share their traits to the benefit of both, rather than being a destructive or zero sum force?

I think there are multiple angles you could work, and explore. Myriad thematic ways to tie the ideas to the world without scarring either Danny or K'un L'un. Make Danny's role one of being educated rather than being educator. Of being a bridge between two worlds. Just don't ignore the inherent problems, address them head on.

I think the main thing is to be aware of the issue and not make him into some kind of "White guy does it best." I think putting him alongside Shang-Chi would actually help that.

[mace11]

Hawkeye/Hailee Steinfeld is mixed Asian.

I'm not sure if MCU Kate will be part asian like Hailee is. Her mom is already your standard caucasian woman, and if I'm right about my speculation on who got cast as her father, he might be just white too. Hailee is very white passing as well, so I think they will prioritize actors who look more asian for specific asian-led productions.

As for Steinfeld I didn't know she was part asian until you said it lol. But I don't know if the character of Kate Bishop is going to be mixed just because the actor is. So any obvious representation is still up in the air.

I think Steinfeld is one of those actresses that could pass for white or brown.
She has a very near white look.
She has a look that could go both ways.

[Panic]

I mean so he is offensive to asian cultures because he got his power from asian culture? I guess I'm confused here.

It's a little less straightforward than that. When there was first talk of an Iron Fist adaptation and Asian-American objections to the white saviour trope, the suggestion was made that K'un-Lun (which was supposedly a crashed alien spacecraft turned city, inhabited by aliens who had reverted technologically) could simply be made to not be Asian - you could just give all the aliens purple eyes to differentiate Danny as an outsider, for example. Several guys in the Iron Fist thread said this had been brought up on other message boards where the debate was raging, and what was becoming clear was that this was as much about Asian-Americans wanting representation as anything else, and that anything other than making Iron Fist Asian would be unacceptable and would be met with hostility.

The Iron Fist character really didn't lean nearly so heavily on the White Saviour trope as has been made out in recent years, and though it has obviously Asian inspiration in K'un Lun, it's mainly been surface gloss. It's been a mish-mash of competing ideas, mainly advanced technology appearing as magic vs magic, and it wouldn't be hard to remove the more awkward stuff imo, whilst keeping the core true to what Iron Fist fans want. Certainly when I first read Iron Fist as a kid I wasn't even conscious of the inhabitants of K'un Lun looking East Asian, because Byrne simply didn't draw them much different to your standard white guy. I'm not sure any IF fan ever considered that aspect back then, they were just an alien civilisation. But with this being a big political talking point right now, I think Marvel wouldn't want to touch Iron Fist with a fifty foot pole in the current climate.

[MindofShadow]

It's a little less straightforward than that. When there was first talk of an Iron Fist adaptation and Asian-American objections to the white saviour trope, the suggestion was made that K'un-Lun (which was supposedly a crashed alien spacecraft turned city, inhabited by aliens who had reverted technologically) could simply be made to not be Asian - you could just give all the aliens purple eyes to differentiate Danny as an outsider, for example. Several guys in the Iron Fist thread said this had been brought up on other message boards where the debate was raging, and what was becoming clear was that this was as much about Asian-Americans wanting representation as anything else, and that anything other than making Iron Fist Asian would be unacceptable and would be met with hostility.

The Iron Fist character really didn't lean nearly so heavily on the White Saviour trope as has been made out in recent years, and though it has obviously Asian inspiration in K'un Lun, it's mainly been surface gloss. It's been a mish-mash of competing ideas, mainly advanced technology appearing as magic vs magic, and it wouldn't be hard to remove the more awkward stuff imo, whilst keeping the core true to what Iron Fist fans want. Certainly when I first read Iron Fist as a kid I wasn't even conscious of the inhabitants of K'un Lun looking East Asian, because Byrne simply didn't draw them much different to your standard white guy. I'm not sure any IF fan ever considered that aspect back then, they were just an alien civilisation. But with this being a big political talking point right now, I think Marvel wouldn't want to touch Iron Fist with a fifty foot pole in the current climate.

Making K'un Lun ACTUALLY alien would be cool.

Then of course, IF could be any race whatsoever. Even alien lol.

IDK how this works and now "is it even the same character" but neat lol.

[MindofShadow]

So glad I got my kids excited for the What If show (finally, they wont watch MCU stuff with me) only for the last three episodes to get worse and worse kid friendly wise lol

[John Venus]

I mean so he is offensive to asian cultures because he got his power from asian culture? I guess I'm confused here.

It's less white saviour and more cultural appropriation. White guy goes to Asian culture and we learn about the culture through his gaze and he becomes better than actual Asians are at their own culture.

Batman and Daredevil mostly dodge this trope since even though they are top tier martial artists ultimately they created their own identities. Danny Rand is representing Ku'n Lun in his values, alter ego and fighting style.

There is room for good cultural exchanges but pop culture has always been littered with white savior tropes for a long time and has only just begun to disengage from it.

I think among Asian Americans there was also this desire to see an Asian American character go back to their 'roots' so to speak and rediscover their culture and heritage. Imagine if Danny or Strange were Asian/half Asian and after tragedy, they found their strength and new identity by reconnecting to their Asian heritage. You can still do the outsider-in-other-culture story since Danny, like many Asian Americans would face pushback since he would be viewed as more 'American' than 'Asian' in Ku'n Lun. The desire for such a narrative meant that most people saw white Danny as a missed opportunity.

I
I mentioned in another thread a while back that I'm glad there are multiple Asian actors in Eternals. Shang Chi is one of the few marvel characters to have his own title and the time period he came out in was what it was, so like or not he's the kung fu guy. So the mcu having other Asians with different abilities is a good thing.

Lets hope most of them aren't killed off. With such a large cast I think there will be casualties. I think Jolie's Thena and Hayek's Ajak are goners. The only ones I'm sure will make it are Sersei and Black Knight.

As for continuing the Netflix Iron Fist...hopefully they won't lol. If he ever shows up again to be officially part of the mcu, I'm hoping he's recast. Same with Cage.

I'm fine with Danny being recast. I'm split on Luke Cage. Colter didn't have the energy I expect from Luke Cage but has he really been given the chance to play Luke that way?

As for Steinfeld I didn't know she was part asian until you said it lol. But I don't know if the character of Kate Bishop is going to be mixed just because the actor is. So any obvious representation is still up in the air.

I'm not sure if MCU Kate will be part asian like Hailee is. Her mom is already your standard caucasian woman, and if I'm right about my speculation on who got cast as her father, he might be just white too. Hailee is very white passing as well, so I think they will prioritize actors who look more asian for specific asian-led productions.

Isn't Kate Bishop part Asian too in the comics? I've only read her in Fraction's Hawkeye series and it's been a minute. I definitely remember some parts of the being in an uproar because they thought Hailee Steinfeld wasn't Asian.

And I sure hope they don't do Danny dirty like that. I'm ok if they want Colleen to be their asian Iron Fist who gets to team-up with Shang-Chi in the big movies and stuff. That'd be fine by me. But I hope there is still room for Danny in the MCU, even if away from all that stuff. I still want to see his friendship and dynamic with Luke (which WAS one of the upsides of his Netflix portrayal) explored. I think he deserves a second shot. I'm all for legacy characters getting the spotlight, but I don't think that should be done at the expense of the OG heroes. I HATED what they did to Mar-Vell in the MCU, so hopefully Danny gets a better treatment.

I think they can backdoor Iron Fist by introducing the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven through Shang Chi. Introduce Iron Fist as a rival with glowing fist and.....make IF a woman. That would set IF apart from Shang Chi. I would love to see Jessica Henwick in the MCU proper though it doesn't have to be Colleen. They could introduce a descendant of Fan Fei as Iron Fist.

[Witchfan]

This is the apparent viewing order of the MCU from Endgame onward:

Avengers: Endgame
Loki
What If...?
WandaVision
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Spider-Man: Far From Home
The Eternals
Spider-Man: No Way Home

[John Venus]

I think the order is going to change depending on the viewer. I've seen some say the narrative flows better when you go from EG to WV to F&WC then FFH.

Based on themes and when events are taking place:
Endgame (loss)
Wanda Vision (grief)
Falcon & Winter Soldier (healing, redemption, legacy)
Spider-Man: Far From Home (moving on)
Loki (Next Phase opener)
Shang Chi (new contenders)
What If?
Eternals (more cosmic stuff)
Spider-Man No Way Home

[Drops Of Venus]

Basically, yeah. Imagine if Black Panther wasn't T'Challa, but some white guy whose plane crashed on Wakanda when he was a kid... And then his entire identity and powers are based on African culture, fighting tehcniques and a fictional african country, which btw out of all the black people in there, the foreign white guy just happened to be the best one who rightfully earned the biggest title and power of their culture.

That's funny because that backstory sort of exists in the comics with White Wolf, except that he never became Black Panther and was shunned instead. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the MCU never wanted to adapt him, though, and decided to give his name to a random white person with no connection to Wakanda instead. I actually would've liked to see him in the MCU, but now with T'Challa gone, I feel like they would never risk introducing a white brother that could potentially be seen as being a replacement of his. That would look bad.

Isn't Kate Bishop part Asian too in the comics? I've only read her in Fraction's Hawkeye series and it's been a minute. I definitely remember some parts of the being in an uproar because they thought Hailee Steinfeld wasn't Asian.

Asian Kate Bishop was a popular headcanon, but that's all that it ever was: a headcanon. Which is why some fans were upset: the headcanon got so popular that some people were led to believe it was real. Her asian co-creator, Jim Cheung, was actually asked about this once and he said he never imagined her as asian. So that's a pretty definitive answer on that.

[Writerblog]

That's funny because that backstory sort of exists in the comics with White Wolf, except that he never became Black Panther and was shunned instead. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the MCU never wanted to adapt him, though, and decided to give his name to a random white person with no connection to Wakanda instead. I actually would've liked to see him in the MCU, but now with T'Challa gone, I feel like they would never risk introducing a white brother that could potentially be seen as being a replacement of his. That would look bad.



Asian Kate Bishop was a popular headcanon, but that's all that it ever was: a headcanon. Which is why some fans were upset: the headcanon got so popular that some people were led to believe it was real. Her asian co-creator, Jim Cheung, was actually asked about this once and he said he never imagined her as asian. So that's a pretty definitive answer on that.

Sometimes hedcanon is so powerful that people really believe it haha

At last they will get some since Hailee Stendfield is asian descendent

[gonnagiveittoya]

The stupidest part is that Hailee Steinfeld is part Asian anyways

[MaximoffTrash]

Isn't Kate Bishop part Asian too in the comics? I've only read her in Fraction's Hawkeye series and it's been a minute. I definitely remember some parts of the being in an uproar because they thought Hailee Steinfeld wasn't Asian.
.

The discourse about "Kate Bishop is Asian" is probably started by Tumblr or Twitter, and they seem to based it on Aja's art or something.
There are a lot of misconcepts manufactured about comic characters and spread like wildfire.

[MaximoffTrash]

The stupidest part is that Hailee Steinfeld is part Asian anyways

Well, the headcanon kinda started because they think YA V1 and Hawkeye(Fraction and Aja)'s Kate looked Asian.
So they will naturally have a very narrow perception of the "Asian look" I guess.

[CosmiComic]

Although I don't defend fancanon getting out of hand, Young Avengers is a pretty White team, so it's not unreasonable for people to look for diversity. YA could use more, but looking for it where it's not seems a bit odd

[mace11]

Although I don't defend fancanon getting out of hand, Young Avengers is a pretty White team, so it's not unreasonable for people to look for diversity. YA could use more, but looking for it where it's not seems a bit odd

The team is mostly white but not that white.
Young Avengers





White members
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop),
Speed
Stinger
Wiccan
Marvel Boy
Iron Lad
Loki (Ikol)

Non whites
Emperor Dorrek VIII(real look is green and is green most of the time and sometimes could look like any human etc.)
Miss America
Patriot
Prodigy
Vision (Jonas)


Members
Team Leader(s)

Elijah Bradley; formerly Hawkeye (Kate Bishop), Iron Lad

Current Member(s)

Hawkeye (Kate Bishop), Emperor Dorrek VIII, Miss America, Patriot, Speed, Stinger, Wiccan

Former Member(s)

Iron Lad, Loki (Ikol), Marvel Boy, Prodigy, Vision (Jonas)