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  1. #4111

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    lol@ Endgame being called 'Batman & Robin' level. Why am I not surprised that Castle tried to hijack my comment so he can spread more of his hyperbolic takes?

    It's fine if someone doesn't like a movie or a different take on a film. I respect that. But comparing a movie which culminated in 22 movies worth of story telling and left most viewers satisfied with the results to what's considered the worst CBM of all time and acting like it's an objective take is the definition of a hyperbole.


    I enjoyed EG mostly because we got some actual team interactions. All the Avengers movies had this problem where there is only a limited screen time and everybody has to rush to defeat the supervillain (Loki, Ultron, Thanos) which left little time for us to see the characters interact and bond outside of a combat scenario. EG being a 'time heist' movie allowed characters to deflate, ruminate, plan, organize and see how their lives had changed after the Snap. I'm fine with how Cap and Tony's arcs concluded and I love the fact that it's the literal little guy Scott Lang who came up with the solution to save the day. MCU Ant-Man has the everyman/underdog energy that MCU Peter lacks, imo. The way the Avengers treats him is exactly how 616 Avengers used to treat Peter Parker.

  2. #4112
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    lol@ Endgame being called 'Batman & Robin' level. Why am I not surprised that Castle tried to hijack my comment so he can spread more of his hyperbolic takes?




    .
    Now it is me that needs to do the laughing because I never compared Endgame to Batman and Robin. I compared age of ultron to batman and robin because of how the movie went overboard with jokes, humor, stereotypical comic bookie directing and one liners, mostly by the third act of Ultron.

    Marvel movies are very famous for their humor and sometimes how he gets very misplaced, Age of Ultron was the worst offender of this and unlike maybe another film like Thor Ragnarok that still has its fans, even if that movie divided the comic book fans. I have never seen any list of MCU movies ranking where Age Of Ultron is never placed as a bottom barrel MCU movie.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-17-2021 at 05:04 PM.

  3. #4113

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaminbee View Post
    They are probably talking about the female group shot that seems to have made a lot of people mad. I don't get the anger though. It was a moment, and it was nice.
    I like it too. I'm glad Marvel is planting the seeds for an all female Avengers team.

    I have seen some people point out that the scene sacrifices in-universe logic just to have a shot with all the female characters and how very few of them have any relationship with each other.

    A poster on reddit pointed how it would have been cooler if Nebula was the one who shows up to take the Gauntlet from Peter who wonders how Nebula is going to get through Thanos army. Then Gamora shows up next to Nebula delivering the 'don't worry' line followed by Mantis since they're on the same team followed by Wasp then Scarlet Witch then Okoye (since they both already worked together) followed by Shuri then Pepper and finally Captain damn Marvel makes a big splashy entrance completing the line with 'she's not alone'. It would have signified Nebula's character progression from an assassin wanting to murder her sister to having her sister and a small group of powerful women having her back against her father's forces.

  4. #4114
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Endgame is not a woke movie. People arguing that it is are demented. I didn't enjoy the ladies getting together because the vast majority of them haven't interacted with each other before. They're strangers basically. So I thought that moment wasn't earned. I'm actually surprised at how many folks on this forum are not fans of the whole multiverse/time travel thing in the MCU. I thought I was the only one. I think that's a HUGE reason why a lot of folks ended up not liking Endgame as much as the other Avengers movies. I don't dislike multiverse/time travel stories. I liked Bill & Ted, Terminator, and Back To The Future as movies. I liked the Twilight Zone's Last Flight episode, Star Trek: The Next Generation's Yesterday's Enterprise episode, and basically all of Quantum Leap. I even fondly remember the G.I. Joe Worlds Without End episodes and that was a multiverse story. I didn't like Endgame as much because they used two kinds of time travel: Closed loop and branch point time travel. I thought it was established in Endgame that if folks travel back in time, they can't alter the future of their own timeline. They just create a new one. You can alter pasts of alternative timelines and not your own (branch point time travel). But when Sam, Bucky and Banner found Joe Biden (I mean an elderly Steve Rogers) sitting on a bench at the end of Endgame, that meant that Captain America changed the past of the timeline he left originally (closed loop time travel). And if Cap married Peggy, then how would Sharon even exist? I thought that wasn't how time travel worked in the MCU. That's why I hold a dim view of the MCU's version of time travel. They don't follow their own rules. And just by explaining those rules, the pace of Endgame slowed to a CRAWL (although it was absolutely necessary). And also I would like to add, the Hulk should have joined Tony, Steve and Thor in their battle with Thanos, weakened as he was. It would have taken some of the resentment away from Captain Marvel if she just stuck to blowing up spaceships.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 09-17-2021 at 05:28 PM.

  5. #4115
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Yall are complaining about a scene preemptively when the guy said it was the time travel part that was fan servive lol


    The female team up was silly comic book fan service which is fine. A good chunk of the movie was that lol
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  6. #4116
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Now it is me that needs to do the laughing because I never compared Endgame to Batman and Robin. I compared age of ultron to batman and robin because of how the movie went overboard with jokes, humor, stereotypical comic bookie directing and one liners, mostly by the third act of Ultron.

    Marvel movies are very famous for their humor and sometimes how he gets very misplaced, Age of Ultron was the worst offender of this and unlike maybe another film like Thor Ragnarok that still has its fans, even if that movie divided the comic book fans. I have never seen any list of MCU movies ranking where Age Of Ultron is never placed as a bottom barrel MCU movie.
    Therr are plenty of lists that put it right in the middle

    Including people in this thread....
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  7. #4117
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    My issue with the girl power scene wasn't the fanservice so much of the fact that it was pairing a bunch of female characters with no connection or real prior interaction with one another together. Like most of them barely knew or were aware of each other and are now suddenly getting a big team-up scene out-of-nowhere. And just for an action scene.

    And, y'know, Widow's not in it.

  8. #4118
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    I agree it's far from the substantial female character interaction we need but I think the complaints tend to go overboard.

    As for Black Widow, I doubt she could've helped Captain Marvel that much

  9. #4119

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    The scene is bad for many reasons. One thing is that Carol doesn't need any of them, with her established powers she could just blitz through these goons to the van in a second. So they had to nerf her speed for this scene to work in the first place.

    Then we have the improbability of all of them being together in this part of the battlefield in this exact moment.

    Infinity War had a similar scene that was much better executed as it made sense that the three females were together and Wanda actually needed help at that point.

    Worst thing about the Endgame scene is how Marvel tries to paint themselves as progressive in terms of female representation when quite the opposite is true. Marvel's treatment of female characters in the first three phases was outright bad, one just has to look at these characters and think of how often they interacted with each other to realize that. One scene doesn't make up for ten years of mistreatment but that's what they obviously wanted to achieve here.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  10. #4120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    But when Sam, Bucky and Banner found Joe Biden (I mean an elderly Steve Rogers) sitting on a bench at the end of Endgame, that meant that Captain America changed the past of the timeline he left originally (closed loop time travel). And if Cap married Peggy, then how would Sharon even exist? I thought that wasn't how time travel worked in the MCU. That's why I hold a dim view of the MCU's version of time travel. They don't follow their own rules.
    No it doesn't mean that Steve changed the original timeline. He could have lived his life in the alternate timeline and then traveled back to the original timeline to give Sam the shield. That's also how the Russos explained it.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  11. #4121
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    My issue with the girl power scene wasn't the fanservice so much of the fact that it was pairing a bunch of female characters with no connection or real prior interaction with one another together. Like most of them barely knew or were aware of each other and are now suddenly getting a big team-up scene out-of-nowhere. And just for an action scene.

    And, y'know, Widow's not in it.
    And what the hell is Mantis gonnna do hahahah
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  12. #4122
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    A poster on reddit pointed how it would have been cooler if Nebula was the one who shows up to take the Gauntlet from Peter who wonders how Nebula is going to get through Thanos army. Then Gamora shows up next to Nebula delivering the 'don't worry' line followed by Mantis since they're on the same team followed by Wasp then Scarlet Witch then Okoye (since they both already worked together) followed by Shuri then Pepper and finally Captain damn Marvel makes a big splashy entrance completing the line with 'she's not alone'. It would have signified Nebula's character progression from an assassin wanting to murder her sister to having her sister and a small group of powerful women having her back against her father's forces.
    Yeah, I would have liked that more, because it would have been a real character-arc moment for Nebula, and not just a feel-good moment. Plus it would have felt a bit more true to the moment, since Nebula would logically *need* the support of the others, while Carol Danvers, really, kinda didn't. She was just gonna fly headfirst through all that trash anyway.

  13. #4123
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    And what the hell is Mantis gonnna do hahahah
    More than Natasha had she been there.

    Which make these Endgame complaints even funnier to me.

    What was Black Widow gonna do if she'd been there, throw her guns at Thanos?

  14. #4124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    My issue with the girl power scene wasn't the fanservice so much of the fact that it was pairing a bunch of female characters with no connection or real prior interaction with one another together. Like most of them barely knew or were aware of each other and are now suddenly getting a big team-up scene out-of-nowhere. And just for an action scene.

    And, y'know, Widow's not in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    The scene is bad for many reasons. One thing is that Carol doesn't need any of them, with her established powers she could just blitz through these goons to the van in a second. So they had to nerf her speed for this scene to work in the first place.

    Then we have the improbability of all of them being together in this part of the battlefield in this exact moment.

    Infinity War had a similar scene that was much better executed as it made sense that the three females were together and Wanda actually needed help at that point.

    Worst thing about the Endgame scene is how Marvel tries to paint themselves as progressive in terms of female representation when quite the opposite is true. Marvel's treatment of female characters in the first three phases was outright bad, one just has to look at these characters and think of how often they interacted with each other to realize that. One scene doesn't make up for ten years of mistreatment but that's what they obviously wanted to achieve here.
    And that right there is it...across the whole battlefield with everything else going on all the women were NOT fighting anyone and were right there near each other to have their 'monent'. Maybe if it was written a little better for them to have a reason to have come together it would have worked.

  15. #4125
    Extraordinary Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Loved the scene, happy to see an A-Force movie, but right now I can’t imagine Brie’s version of Carol leading it, she’s not really a team player. Then again with Natasha dead it’s hard to think who else would lead the team. Wanda is kind of debatable in her current situation. Who do you think besides Carol would make a good leader?

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