Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

Can you cite examples of this 'unnatural dialogue'?

If you mean the 60's then nearly everybody sounded stilted and weird in that era.

You should see early Mary Jane Watson dialogue .

[CosmiComic]

I think when push comes to shove he'll drop everything to save Sue. He usually gets more emotional when she's in danger.

I think Fantastic Four: Season One depicted this well.

That's great in dangerous situations but I'm talking about day to day spousal interactions

I guess it comes down to what one views as realistic dialogue. I've never seen Reed come off as unrealistic, he just focuses so much on science that it's the thing he talks about the most.

His science dialogue comes off as "I like science therefore I can't understand human emotions." The Big Bang Theory is more realistic. Actual people don't talk like that. But I wouldn't mind as much if it was entertaining, which it isn't

Challenged in the sense that it was acknowledged as happening? Because I think the train of thought was it wouldn't make sense for his modern characterization so it's not something that really needs to be addressed.

Why not? That's how he used to behave. I don't think it serves his character development to ignore it.

Can you cite examples of this 'unnatural dialogue'?

If you mean the 60's then nearly everybody sounded stilted and weird in that era.

In the recent 2018 F4 series, his dialogue comes off as a stereotype of an emotionally unavailable scientist.

I agree everyone in the 60s sounded unnatural, but Reed still comes off a bit like that to me even now.

[Frontier]

That's great in dangerous situations but I'm talking about day to day spousal interactions

He does treat Sue at times. I think it's an exaggeration to say he's always uncaring towards her or the rest of the team.

His science dialogue comes off as "I like science therefore I can't understand human emotions." The Big Bang Theory is more realistic. Actual people don't talk like that. But I wouldn't mind as much if it was entertaining, which it isn't

Well, he's a very stoic and serious kind of character at times. But I've seen Reed played humorously, like in the World's Greatest Heroes cartoon.

Why not? That's how he used to behave. I don't think it serves his character development to ignore it.

Yeah, but in terms of his overall character and how it's developed it doesn't really fit.

In the recent 2018 F4 series, his dialogue comes off as a stereotype of an emotionally unavailable scientist.

I agree everyone in the 60s sounded unnatural, but Reed still comes off a bit like that to me even now.

Weird, Slott's Reed has always come off more personable to me.

[John Venus]

Dialogue really depends on who is writing him. Slott isn't exactly the best writer.

This is my first FF comics and he wasn't written stilted here:





Reed has always been empathetic towards his family and put tremendous blame on himself for getting them into this situation they're in.

[John Venus]

And it's not like we have countless examples of him caring for Sue and putting her above everything else:







That's what separates Reed and Doom. Reed does everything for his family. Doom does it for himself.

[CosmiComic]

He does treat Sue at times. I think it's an exaggeration to say he's always uncaring towards her or the rest of the team.

I don't think it's a total exaggeration.

Well, he's a very stoic and serious kind of character at times. But I've seen Reed played humorously, like in the World's Greatest Heroes cartoon.

He doesn't have to be humorous. Just not a caricature of the "unemotional scientist"

Yeah, but in terms of his overall character and how it's developed it doesn't really fit.

I don't see how. It's been part of his character for a while

Weird, Slott's Reed has always come off more personable to me.

Relative to other versions, yeah. As a whole, he still seems off to me at least.

[CosmiComic]

And it's not like we have countless examples of him caring for Sue and putting her above everything else:







That's what separates Reed and Doom. Reed does everything for his family. Doom does it for himself.

I don't think he's always uncaring. But it happened enough that I found it hard to like him.

[Ravin' Ray]

When it comes to defending Reed's role as a husband, father and overall family man, the Fyeah Fantastic Four blog which I follow on Tumblr put together a very comprehensive series of issues and panels several months ago that put Reed in a better light. Can't find the specific posts right now but the blog mods were pretty outspoken!

[Vic Vega]

It hasn't helped Reed depiction in the last...decade or so... that usually the big event writers like Millar and Hickman tend to write the least empathic and the most monomaniacal Reed's.

As thier stories only work if the heroes have D'bag leanings.

[Ravin' Ray]

Little thing I noticed with YouTube, I'm getting recommendations from Marvel India for the Hindi dub of Eternals. I think expectations are high in India because of the promised Bollywood dance scene and the rest of Kingo's stay there.

[John Venus]

In non-COVID times you know the movie would have done well there.

Same with Shang Chi. Even without China, the movie would have done really well in Asia as well as Asian American communities.

[CosmiComic]

When it comes to defending Reed's role as a husband, father and overall family man, the Fyeah Fantastic Four blog which I follow on Tumblr put together a very comprehensive series of issues and panels several months ago that put Reed in a better light. Can't find the specific posts right now but the blog mods were pretty outspoken!

I'll check it out. Reed needs all the help he can get.

It hasn't helped Reed depiction in the last...decade or so... that usually the big event writers like Millar and Hickman tend to write the least empathic and the most monomaniacal Reed's.

As thier stories only work if the heroes have D'bag leanings.

I never understood that. Characters can be nice and interesting at the same time.

In non-COVID times you know the movie would have done well there.

Same with Shang Chi. Even without China, the movie would have done really well in Asia as well as Asian American communities.

Most likely, yes. Although Idk if Eternals would've done as good considering Shang-Chi has a Chinese-American guy as the main character. Idk for sure but I think Kingo is more of a supporting character

[Confuzzled]

You should see early Mary Jane Watson dialogue .

Imagine Stan writing MJ's dialogues in the Year of our Lord 2021:

Spidey Snack totally understood the assignment! YAAS KING! Avengers stop sleeping on him, mmkay? Man out here repping Queens by himself. And the AUDACITY of that J Jonah Jameson! I'm gonna drag him by the roots. #JusticeForSpidey #RedHairDontCare #FabliciousVibes #TheFutureIsFemale

[Gnostic]

I remember on the TV/film discussion forum when Wandavision was airing in January, some quickly thought and said Wanda was like the MCU version of Jean Grey and the only reason she is that way is because marvel is saving Jean Grey.

Late reply, but the parallels are not by accident. WandaVision was taking a lot of inspiration from the Darker Than Scarlet (aka Dark Scarlet Witch) storyline. Which was co-written by John Byrne, who was co-creator of the Dark Phoenix Saga. He used the DPS as the blueprint for the storyline. Wanda having a mental breakdown, reaching the full potential of her powers, becoming a villain with her inhibitions removed, being manipulated for her power, etc. He even homages scenes from the saga.






Wanda in the show not only has a similar power set as Jean, but also similar cinematography and character arc.



Wanda’s director even compared Wanda’s transformation into the Scarlet Witch to that of a Phoenix.

Lot of conversations about when that would happen, would that happened early on, and then would the battle between Agatha and Wanda be a battle between the Scarlet Witch and Agatha Harkness? But we really loved this idea of identity being the crux of that fight. It's the same thing that's driving the Vision fight too. "Who am I? Who is the real Vision?" And here's Agatha saying, "You think that you're one thing, but you're actually this other thing completely." And Wanda's saying, "I'm not that thing. I'm not that thing," until she gets to the end and she's like, "I am that thing." And like a Phoenix reborn from the ashes, she allows herself to basically die. She comes right to the edge. All of her power is taken from her and then she pulls it all back and in an explosion becomes herself. And she says, "I don't need you to tell me who I am." So, it's about identity, and when we finally latched on to where we felt it would play best structurally, the pieces kind of fell into place.

There was also this Dark Phoenix easter egg in episode 8. Notice the “X” on the belt.

[Gnostic]

Speaking of Dark Phoenix, Jean gives a narration at the end of the movie saying:

This is not the end of me or the X-Men. It’s a new beginning.

That line was added after the merger was finalized. A few months after the film’s release Kevin Feige had a long conversation with Patrick Stewart about returning as Professor X and he is heavily rumored to have a supporting role as the character in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Kevin Feige did say that a character was going to appear in the film that they wanted to use for a long time, that Deadpool 3 is a part of the MCU canon, and that we won’t be seeing a new X-Men team anytime soon.

Plot leaks suggest that his role is similar to the one Xavier had at the start of House of M. So do you think that film is setting up an Avengers/X-Men (original cast) crossover? Financially, it makes sense. Days of Future Past made the same amount of money as the Deadpool films at the Box Office (700+ million) & over twice the amount First Class made because it had the original cast. Logan further proved this with it making over 600 million dollars.

Not to mention, Feige tried to make Fox’s X-Men a part of the MCU canon back in the 2000s.