Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[davetvs]

If it is not OK to whitewash a character who is a POC (something that should piss us all off)...why would it be OK to make a traditionally white character a POC? Why not just create content that features Marvel's traditionally non-white characters.



That is what I want...but I want Marvel to use the characters they have who have represented those demographics to do it.

Look up "false equivalence" and get back to me. Ajak and Makkari going from white men to ethnic women still leaves Ikaris, Druig, and Dane Whitman to represent white men, who are already statistically overrepresented in the MCU and in the genre as a whole. How many ethnic female MCU heroes are there (to date?) I count 12, 58% of which come from Black Panther and Eternals. Now how many white male MCU heroes are there? Who is being disadvantaged by the race/gender swaps in Eternals? Nobody.

[Alpha]

If it is not OK to whitewash a character who is a POC (something that should piss us all off)...why would it be OK to make a traditionally white character a POC? Why not just create content that features Marvel's traditionally non-white characters.

Because it's not about recreating the comic page, it's about representation bro. And nobody here is saying that we can't use non-white marvel characters, but it's not a reason for the Eternals to be like they were in the comics. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both.

[CosmiComic]

Dear God, why is anyone still making these stupid false equivalencies in 2021? There are a lot of White and/or male heroes. Not as many non-White and/or female heroes. Change in one direction isn't equivalent to another.

Finally watched Loki. Easily the best of the Disney+ shows so far. Looking forward to season 2 and can't wait for Kang in Ant Man

It's funny how people say "Kang in Quantumania is odd" yet don't blink an eye at him showing up in Loki. At least Kang had a connection to Stature via Iron Lad. But nothing with Loki as far as I remember.

Still a good show, though.

[Force de Phenix]

Funny thing about Doctor Strange, according Kurt Buseik’s observations Strange was originally drawn by Steve Ditko as Asian but was eventually changed to Caucasian over time. I kind of find that fascinating. I think there was a missed opportunity to cast a Asian actor in that role, but I still like Cumberbatch in that role. I’m You know you are correct it technically wouldn’t matter for most white characters but with certain white characters like Thor he kind of needs to look like an Aryan Adonis with the blonde hair and blue eyes and so does Steve Rogers but for the most part a lot of these character’s races are pretty immaterial to their characters, and could be changed.

Regarding Thor, the Catholic church funded the statues and art of Jesus, and they made him look more like an Italian/European than someone from the Middle East so that (local) people could feel closer to him. It's not far fetched to have a black Thor that the Scandinavians would make Nordic over time to make him one of "theirs."

I think Steve Rodgers being white is more relevant because they chose someone that they wanted to represent the US at the time, and I doubt the military would've chosen someone that looks any different. I always thought he should have a New York accent because of where he was from, but US media brainwashed people into thinking regional accents mean you're an idiot and that the quasi-mid-west/California accent is what a native New Yorker from the WW2 era would sound like.

[GenericUsername]

Steve Rogers looks were probably relative to what Hitler saw as the ideal. So that when Joe and Jack released a comic of Hitler's ideal punching him in the face, Hitler could see that released everywhere.

[Chris0013]

Look up "false equivalence" and get back to me. Ajak and Makkari going from white men to ethnic women still leaves Ikaris, Druig, and Dane Whitman to represent white men, who are already statistically overrepresented in the MCU and in the genre as a whole. How many ethnic female MCU heroes are there (to date?) I count 12, 58% of which come from Black Panther and Eternals. Now how many white male MCU heroes are there? Who is being disadvantaged by the race/gender swaps in Eternals? Nobody.

Not "false equivalence" at all...it is either right or wrong to change a characters race or gender. To say it is right in one case and wrong in the other is hypocrisy. And I do agree that Marvel needs to put more diverse characters...just not by race or gender swapping them.

Because it's not about recreating the comic page, it's about representation bro. And nobody here is saying that we can't use non-white marvel characters, but it's not a reason for the Eternals to be like they were in the comics. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both.

In many ways it should be about recreating the comic page (updated in small ways as they are origining them in modern times). Many of these characters have long publication histories and people who love how they have been presented. Look at the backlash over the Taskmaster reveal in BW. And I am not saying their should not be representation...just that Marvel should be using their traditionally diverse characters who also have long histories and fans who want to see them faithfully presented on screen.

[cam18]

Finally saw Eternals it was ok...kinda of dragged in spots and wasn't fully invested in all of the characters arcs obviously some got more attention then others.....All this hoopla about it being so different from other marvel movies not sure I fully agree with that the RT is a bit lower then I expected but I get why it is divisive. Will be interesting to see what course corrections Marvel/Disney make if anything although with movies like Thor Love and Thunder coming which will probably be more in line with what marvel fans want and expect they might have to do much at all. One thing that could be worrying is introducing large ensembles like FF4 and X-Men if they struggled with Eternals they could potentially struggle with other groups as well.

[davetvs]

Not "false equivalence" at all...it is either right or wrong to change a characters race or gender. To say it is right in one case and wrong in the other is hypocrisy. And I do agree that Marvel needs to put more diverse characters...just not by race or gender swapping them.



In many ways it should be about recreating the comic page (updated in small ways as they are origining them in modern times). Many of these characters have long publication histories and people who love how they have been presented. Look at the backlash over the Taskmaster reveal in BW. And I am not saying their should not be representation...just that Marvel should be using their traditionally diverse characters who also have long histories and fans who want to see them faithfully presented on screen.

Well, luckily for us, Marvel disagrees with you. Like I said earlier, if you're so in love with the way the characters are represented in the comics and won't accept deviation from that...read the comics. Read them as many times as you like.

[mace11]

This was posted in another thread and here awhile back.

This came 2 years ago and before phase 3 ended.
The Marvel Cinematic Universe is 61% White, But Does That Matter



The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is densely populated. The blockbuster Hollywood franchise now spans 20 movies that tie together into one overarching narrative, all leading up to next May’s Avengers 4. But each of these films also has its own self-contained story with an intricate web of allies and enemies, and it can get hard to keep track of them all.

However, as the industry grows increasingly abuzz with greater demand for diversity and inclusion, it’s maybe wise to ask just how diverse this franchise is. Moviegoers across the nation and the world flood Marvel screenings yearly. But do the actors on screen match the sheer diversity of those watching? Let's find out.

Firstly, a few words on methodology. To do this, we'll be adding up all the MCU actors (movies only) who have played roles of narrative significance in the MCU. The total set of those actors comes to 193 people. On top of this we'll also separate from within that group all the actors playing major brand tentpole characters, such as Iron Man, Red Skull, and Christine Palmer. The ethnic/racial categories here are partly informed by the U.S. Census' categories, and partly by industry categorizations when discussing diversity. Lastly, we'll be considering the racial/ethnic background of the actors and not the characters they play.

Actors of white or Caucasian descent are the majority at 61% of the entire group. This means that more than three out of every five significant actors are white. When we consider just the Major Characters that number spikes to 69%, as a whopping 56 of the 81 major actors fit in this category. Many of the franchise’s most important characters are white, including Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man (Iron Man), Chris Evans’ Captain America (Captain America: The First Avenger), Chris Hemsworth’s Thor (Thor), and many others.

The complete demographic distribution of actors playing Significant Characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. ANHAR KARIM

Our next statistic shows that just 20% of the MCU's actors belong to the African American/Black category. While there were 117 actors in the former category, there are only 39 in this one, meaning that there are exactly three times as many white actors than black actors. When we turn to look at only the franchise’s Major Characters, the statistic actually drops to 19%, representing only 15 people. Incidentally, a large portion of the actors in this group, 41% of them, belong to the world of Black Panther. If we were to remove all those individuals, this would drop the overall MCU representation of African American/Black actors down to 11%.

The next biggest category, at 8% overall, is the “Multiracial” subgroup. That is, actors who could not meaningfully be placed in any one category. Eight actors in this group play Major Characters in the franchise, giving us an 11% cut of the total pool of major players in the series. This overall category includes Vin Diesel’s Groot (Guardians of the Galaxy), Zendaya’s Michelle/MJ (Spider-Man: Homecoming), and Taika Waititi’s Korg (Thor: Ragnarok).

Moving on, East Asians represent only 5% of the universe. There is only one major character in this subgroup, that being Benedict Wong’s Wong (Doctor Strange). Others include Randall Park's Jimmy Woo (Ant-Man & The Wasp), Jacob Batalon’s Ned Leeds (Spider-Man: Homecoming), and Claudia Kim’s Dr. Helen Cho (Avengers: Age of Ultron). The next category to consider is the Spanish/Hispanic/Latino subgroup. Actors belonging in this category come in at just 4% of the entire group. This means that for every 25 actors one may meet in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, only one would belong to this category. In this group are Benicio Del Toro’s The Collector (Guardians of the Galaxy) and Maximiliano Hernández’s Jasper Sitwell (Thor). A surprising finding here is that there is not a single Major Character represented within this subgroup. In fact, the Major Character share remains at 0% for the next four categories.
Next we come to South Asian representation. The sole actors here are Faran Tahir as Raza (Iron Man), Bernard White as Councilman Nagendra Singh (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), and Divian Ladwa’s Uzman (Ant-Man & The Wasp). In each of these cases the actor played a very small role.


The distribution of actors playing Major Characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. ANHAR KARIM

The Middle East/Arab category goes even lower. Just two actors of Arab descent appear in this franchise. These are Shaun Toub as Ho Yinsen and Sayed Badreya as Abu Bakaar, both from the film Iron Man. However, it is important to note that Ho Yinsen, while not a Major Character, is nonetheless very important as he inspired Tony's turn toward heroism. This is an example of a nuanced depiction of an Arab in a climate bereft of it. That being said, a lot of this positive work is undone by the otherwise stereotypical depiction of Arab violence. Additionally, Yinsen’s only significant Arab counterpart is Sayed Badreya’s generic Arab terrorist (a role that was hard on Badreya).

Upon arriving at the last two categories, we find ourselves empty-handed. Not a single Significant or Major actor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe can be identified with the Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander or Native American/Alaskan Native categories. Small universe, isn’t it?
So is the Marvel Cinematic Universe diverse enough to represent its viewers? The answer is nuanced. Again, the overall representation of significant actors who are white was at 61%. While this is very much the majority, the U.S. Census estimates the representation of whites in the United States to be 60.7%.

In this regard, the MCU’s depiction of white representation is more or less spot on. Continuing on with this Census report, the Black/African American category is put at 13.4% which, compared to the MCU’s 20%, would mean that Marvel is actually over representing this subgroup.

The MCU also over-represents those of a multiracial background at 11% while the true number is only 2.7%. The Census does not separate between East and South Asian, however, if we combine both categories in this study we get a total Asian representation of 6%, very close to the Census’ 5.8%. Then, while the MCU gives us nothing for both the Native American/Alaskan Native and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander categories, the Census estimates them to be at 1.3% and 0.2%, respectively.

However, one statistic is shamefully off. the MCU’s representation of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino actors stands at only 4%. Meanwhile, the Census tells us that this subgroup actually accounts for 18.1% of the population. It is astounding that when Spanish is the second most widely spoken language in the United States and when Spanish speakers play a crucially important role in the nation’s culture and history, that the MCU has so drastically ignored this subgroup. The popular YouTube series Honest Trailers even parodied the absurdity of this by naming Michael Peña’s Luis (Ant-Man) the “only Latino in the MCU.”

But should the goal of the MCU really be just to reflect the diversity of American audiences? These films are global cash machines with devout fans in every corner of the globe. Additionally, the Marvel heroes themselves have, over twenty movies, caused trouble in Germany, Russia, India, Afghanistan, China, Mexico, and many more places. Now, there is really no reliable source of global racial/ethnic distribution data, however, it’s a safe bet that the world’s share of Caucasian/White individuals is far lower than 61% and that its share of African/Black and Asian individuals is much higher. In this regard, then, perhaps the MCU does have some work to do.

These statistics cannot change the fact that these stories are loved by fans the world over. And they shouldn't. The call for diversity doesn't stem from a hatred of the genre. It stems from a love of these stories, and a desire to connect closer with them. Superhero movies, done right, inspire a zeal to be heroes ourselves, to stand up against odds we know should defeat us, and to fight against them anyway. We are supposed to see our better selves in these vigilantes, people we could become. And seeing that dream, and being inspired to act on it, is so much easier when the character on screen looks back at us like a reflection in the mirror.

Marvel Studios knows this, and they’ve made positive steps forward by greenlighting Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Black Widow’s upcoming solo film, and even hinting that Kamala Khan may get in on the fun too. The executives in charge have acknowledged the need for more diversity, and all signs show that they are tackling it. But when millions of people are watching these movies and learning from them what heroes are supposed to look like, I’d give them a push to move just a little bit faster.

For more thoughts on superheroes and the entertainment industry, check out the rest of my articles, follow me on Twitter, and subscribe on YouTube.







https://www.forbes.com/sites/anharka...h=3b10d3ab4482

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...The-MU/page266

[mace11]

This was posted in another thread too and before the disney plus mcu shows that will have alot of poc and women in the main lead.

Diversity in the MCU: Marvel TV Was Always Ahead of the Curve
While Marvel Studios should be praised for going in a more diverse direction, it shouldn't be forgotten that Marvel TV was the trailblazer.
https://www.cbr.com/mcu-diversity-marvel-tv-first/

Note- Elektra is asian in the daredevil show and defenders show by the way.
Helstrom had a asian character in the main cast as well.
I have not finish watching the show however and i plan to finish it later when i have more time.

QUOTE-While controversy surrounding Finn Jones’ casting as Danny Rand ran rampant when Iron Fist Season 1 launched on Netflix, the fact remains that the series' cast still featured a strong Asian American presence, which included Jessica Henwick’s Colleen Wing, who -- like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s Quake -- was one of the MCU's first major Asian American heroes.
QUOTE- Speaking of Hulu, while Eternals is certainly slated to feature a diverse superhero unit in and of itself, the titular heroes of Runaways arguably beat them to the punch in that respect.

QUOTE- In addition to being a mostly female team, the Runaways are comprised of an African American leader in Rhenzy Feliz’s Alex Wilder, another Latina hero in Allegra Acosta’s Molly Hernandez, not to mention an Asian American heroine in Lyrica Okano’s Nico Minoru: who is also in a same-sex relationship with Virginia Gardner’s Karolina Dean, making Nico and Karolina -- not Thor's Valkyrie -- the MCU’s first leading LGBTQ+ heroes.

Hogun is mcu movies and a issian actor was playing him plus Kenneth Choi appears as Jim Morita.

Samuel Chung(Blindspot) was in iron fist.

The Punisher (TV series)
Amber Rose Revah as Dinah Madani An Iranian-American U.S.
Her mother is from a Polish Jewish family, and Revah's father is from a Kenyan-Indian ancestry.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Blindspot
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Samue...(Earth-199999)

Another poc who is bi-racial asian in real life will have a main leading role in a disney plus mcu marvel series.
REPORT: Hailee Steinfeld Joins Hawkeye as Kate Bishop
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...The-MU/page261
By the way there were asian superheroes and villains in the mcu non canon show inhumans and some of the main cast were asians.For example Ken Leung as Karnak.
Marvel superhero Aleta Ogord IS played by a asian actress in gotg vol. 2 by the way.
Wong is in the mcu.
Ms Marvel will have her own mcu show and will be in captain marvel 2.
The actress who plays mantis in the mcu is asian and mantis is asian in the comics by the way.
The actor who play drax is asian is real life.

[mace11]

One thing that could be worrying is introducing large ensembles like FF4 and X-Men if they struggled with Eternals they could potentially struggle with other groups as well.

The ff4 are only 4 members,so that's not large.
The gofg team is larger then that.
Plus the mcu does ensembles movies really well.
I think they did a really good job with avengers,gofg,eternals etc..
Better then the fox x-men movies for example.
Note- yes i know in comics the ff4 team a becomes larger later sometimes.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

We can avoid this argument with the X-men but not the FF. The x-men have a wider range of characters to choose from. I'm cool with benching the 05 if it gets us a more diverse cast.

However the FF are centered around 5 characters and the only POC would be Doom. Most fanart/fancast tend to favor a multicultural FF so I could see the MCU following suit.

[Spiderfan001]

Marvel has enough diverse characters in their library that they shouldn't need to race or gender swap anyone. How about just using those characters.

I do agree, eternals I get but def. using diverse characters from comics > genderbending and raceswapping in general.

Meh, it’s fine. Characters like Eternals isn’t iconic whatsoever, so I don’t think it’s a huge deal if some members get race swapped or gender bent.

I also agree

We can avoid this argument with the X-men but not the FF. The x-men have a wider range of characters to choose from. I'm cool with benching the 05 if it gets us a more diverse cast.

However the FF are centered around 5 characters and the only POC would be Doom. Most fanart/fancast tend to favor a multicultural FF so I could see the MCU following suit.

I may be mistaken but didn't we already get multicultural live action FF core team before?
If so I def. see Marvel going that route

[Husk]

We can avoid this argument with the X-men but not the FF. The x-men have a wider range of characters to choose from. I'm cool with benching the 05 if it gets us a more diverse cast.

However the FF are centered around 5 characters and the only POC would be Doom. Most fanart/fancast tend to favor a multicultural FF so I could see the MCU following suit.

Whilst most people didn't like it, Fantastic Four has made Johnny a POC before. Sue was European (albeit still played by an American). They just made them adopted. As they were still siblings, nothing about the dynamic between them had to change.

If it doesn't alter the story or character relations then there shouldn't be an issue with updating these characters to be more representative of the world they inhabit.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Oh yeah I forgot about the 2015(?) Version.