Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

Uh, having those characters doesn't really make negate diversification elsewhere. No one's saying families can't be White. But part of the problem is the White heroes get to have bit families, and the non-White ones generally don't. MCU says 'diversity matters' then throws in this all-White family and those don't really go together.

I mean, having a white family isn't necessarily indicative that diversity doesn't matter if they're still pushing diverse heroes, no?

[CosmiComic]

I mean, having a white family isn't necessarily indicative that diversity doesn't matter if they're still pushing diverse heroes, no?

Theoretically, yes. But my point is, there's a whole big family team of White characters at once, but non-White heroes don't get that. They're introduced one by one, and there's no all-Black or all-Asian team, or even an all-White but most female team. This kind of team is more of a relic of the past.

[skyvolt2000]

Ok this is getting stupid. For craps sake, they just had a movie with an all asian cast! 3 years ago they had a movie with an all African heritage cast! What the bleep is going on. Eternals just came out and there is a variety of races on their team! People are getting insane with this stuff. I don't really care what race the fantastic four is. But this seems to be some huge concern for a lot of people. Its mind boggling.

What the bleep is going on is when does everyone else gets to be on the same level as their white counterparts.

Why does it take 18 movies before we sniff Black Panther? Cap Marvel? Eternals? Shang Chi?

When Antman was a hit that should have ended any and all debates about everyone else.

The Fantastic Four can be left alone as they are.

I mean, having a white family isn't necessarily indicative that diversity doesn't matter if they're still pushing diverse heroes, no?

The gripe is we tend to see fully developed white characters.

We have seen Reed and Sue married with children. Peter Parker and Mary Jane married with a kid. Aquaman & Mera married with a kid. Clark & Lois married with a kid. Scott & Jean married with kids (sort of), Rogue & Gambit married, Green Arrow & Dinah married, Scott Free & Big Barba married, Hulk and Betty married, Thing & Alicia married, Medusa & Black Bolt married. Bruce Wayne has a kid. Green Arrow had one. Venom has a kid.

That is off the top of my head.

For POC-
Luke & Jessica. RARE to see them together with their daughter.
Bumblebee & Guardian-how many times have we seen them? Together outside of The Other Side of DC Universe.
Black Panther & Storm-all HECK broke out over that and Storm STILL throws shade at Panther.
John Stewart had a wife-since New 52 he's been way more asexual than Jughead in Archie Comics.
Black Lightning had a wife and kids. Depending on Rebirth he had neither.
Rocket Racer has a huge family that we have NEVER seen.
Steel had a family that has not been seen in now 25 years.
Bronze Tiger has a nephew who not been seen in now 40 years.

Where are the supporting cast for most of the POC in Marvel & Dc? Where are their families?

Pushing diverse heroes does not mean EXCLUDE others.

Miles, Static, Spawn, Panther and Savage Dragon are about the only ones whose families you seen consistently.

[Kingdom X]

Really? One movie with mostly Asians and another with mostly Black people and racism is a dead topic? Really?

I don’t think that’s what they were saying… not caring if the FF are white doesn’t make someone anti-representation or diversity. I personally care more about Marvel continuing to uplift the diverse properties that they have on the way. Maybe they could have moon girl as an intern or spend some extra time on Ben’s Jewish heritage, if they wanted to switch it up a bit.

@ the comment about all black or Asian teams, I actually think that the MCU has done a fantastic job with the supporting casts of both Black Panther and Shang-Chi. Those felt like true ensembles where the “hero” was actually made up of a group of people. I honestly think about the FF more in terms of an MCU solo property cause it’s really that small of a group and there is no “assemble the team” phase… they just know each other.

[chief12d]

If “fans” pushed for a Blue Marvel movie the way they push for stupid ass things like bisexual Johnny or black Reed Richards then the world would be a better place lol. It’s fine to have one small superhero team that’s not diverse. The bigger concern is making it so that they’re not the only characters that get good showings, which is clearly not the case with Marvel in the current climate.

[Ascended]

I mean, having a white family isn't necessarily indicative that diversity doesn't matter if they're still pushing diverse heroes, no?

Yeah I gotta agree, this feels like extreme nitpicking (sorry cosmi, my friend). Shang Chi had a family of badasses, so did T'Challa. How many white heroes also had badass families? Thor, Widow.....that's about it right? Roughly half the films and shows in phase 4 star diverse casts or PoC. If the FF end up being all white (and we don't even know they will) I don't think it'll be the end of the world, or set diversity in the MCU back to square one. It'll just be a small family unit where everyone happens to be white. Given the amount of excellent characters who are coming in (or already here) who happen to be PoC the FF feel largely like a non-issue.

As I've said, I don't really care. I'm not huge on the FF so the film can do whatever it needs to do. I'm sure I'll enjoy it but I got not strong opinion on the characters. I hope that Ben's faith gets a little attention, I don't think we have a Jewish hero in the MCU yet so that'd be nice.

[Force de Phenix]

After watching Eternals I was really disappointed in the story they told. Would have preferred a more direct Eternals vs Deviants story than what they gave us.

They used the Earth X story without everyone on Earth becoming inhumans in the 90's. It's an interesting choice interesting because Earth X was an inhumans story that was similar to Infinity. They made deviants four-legged animals that were able to evolve and made eternals unable to evolve like the Kree for some reason. If they had made deviants like eternals, they could have gone more into a story between them. I didn't mind them going meta with the Celestials. The Celestials were more interesting than the deviants because it led to bigger stories. The major retcon from the comics was the only bad thing that they changed.

[Force de Phenix]

If “fans” pushed for a Blue Marvel movie the way they push for stupid ass things like bisexual Johnny or black Reed Richards then the world would be a better place lol. It’s fine to have one small superhero team that’s not diverse. The bigger concern is making it so that they’re not the only characters that get good showings, which is clearly not the case with Marvel in the current climate.

Blue Marvel should get a movie, but if people are complaining about how the Eternals and Captain Marvel for being nobodies, I can't imagine the hate that would be aimed at him. They should still (need to) make a movie for him because comic fans complain about everything anyway. If they make a Blue Marvel movie, the X-Men would look silly if they complain about being discriminated against, especially if it's Emma, Scott, or any of the other white characters that people want to see.

[CosmiComic]

I don’t think that’s what they were saying… not caring if the FF are white doesn’t make someone anti-representation or diversity. I personally care more about Marvel continuing to uplift the diverse properties that they have on the way. Maybe they could have moon girl as an intern or spend some extra time on Ben’s Jewish heritage, if they wanted to switch it up a bit.

@ the comment about all black or Asian teams, I actually think that the MCU has done a fantastic job with the supporting casts of both Black Panther and Shang-Chi. Those felt like true ensembles where the “hero” was actually made up of a group of people. I honestly think about the FF more in terms of an MCU solo property cause it’s really that small of a group and there is no “assemble the team” phase… they just know each other.

Maybe that's not What they're saying. I don't want to assume. But no one's saying FF being White is anti-diversity in of itself. It's more complicated than that. But we don't 'need' FF either, and as an all-White team they get a lot of support non-White heroes don't. Black Panther and Shang-Chi aren't ensembles how FF are. Not even close. FF is a whole team of actual superheroes mostly related to each other. Who aren't as popular as they once were yet get several chances anyway. What non-White heroes get that?

[CosmiComic]

Blue Marvel should get a movie, but if people are complaining about how the Eternals and Captain Marvel for being nobodies, I can't imagine the hate that would be aimed at him. They should still (need to) make a movie for him because comic fans complain about everything anyway. If they make a Blue Marvel movie, the X-Men would look silly if they complain about being discriminated against, especially if it's Emma, Scott, or any of the other white characters that people want to see.

It was always silly. How am I supposed to buy Cyclops or Iceman being more discriminated against than Falcon or Shang-Chi or Captain Marvel. Emma could at least suffer from sexism, but the metaphor as a whole is outdated. So they could go ahead and adapt Blue Marvel anyway

[Kingdom X]

Maybe that's not What they're saying. I don't want to assume. But no one's saying FF being White is anti-diversity in of itself. It's more complicated than that. But we don't 'need' FF either, and as an all-White team they get a lot of support non-White heroes don't. Black Panther and Shang-Chi aren't ensembles how FF are. Not even close. FF is a whole team of actual superheroes mostly related to each other. Who aren't as popular as they once were yet get several chances anyway. What non-White heroes get that?

Umm you’re the one who said, “ MCU says 'diversity matters' then throws in this all-White family and those don't really go together.” You implied that if they did a comics accurate FF it would be opposition to their other efforts to diversify.

This “whole team” is really just 4 individuals who go on cosmic adventures, it’s not that deep. I’ve never been a huge fan of the team, but they’re Marvel’s first family who have had a solid amount of good stories and haven’t had the chance to be adapted well. It makes perfect sense that Feige wants to do them justice and I’m not gonna be in my feelings because they’re white.

[CosmiComic]

Umm you’re the one who said, “ MCU says 'diversity matters' then throws in this all-White family and those don't really go together.” You implied that if they did a comics accurate FF it would be opposition to their other efforts to diversify.

This “whole team” is really just 4 individuals who go on cosmic adventures, it’s not that deep. I’ve never been a huge fan of the team, but they’re Marvel’s first family who have had a solid amount of good stories and haven’t had the chance to be adapted well. It makes perfect sense that Feige wants to do them justice and I’m not gonna be in my feelings because they’re white.

I pointed out it's more complicated than just "they can't be White". I pointed out they get a lot more than non-White heroes get in the comics. I didn't mean it opposes other diversity effort, but that an all-White team doesn't help diversity in of itself.

And being important in the comics doesn't necessarily translate to that in the MCU

[inisideguy]

Maybe that's not What they're saying. I don't want to assume. But no one's saying FF being White is anti-diversity in of itself. It's more complicated than that. But we don't 'need' FF either, and as an all-White team they get a lot of support non-White heroes don't. Black Panther and Shang-Chi aren't ensembles how FF are. Not even close. FF is a whole team of actual superheroes mostly related to each other. Who aren't as popular as they once were yet get several chances anyway. What non-White heroes get that?

So it sounds like to me your upset that the movie is even being made not that it might have a white cast. I mean this is bonkers. Its a white guy married to a white girl who has a white brother. And the other white guy is best friends with the leader. Now wtf is wrong with this? This is crazy. I mean is this where we are now? That everything has to be diversified so it shows a race. Hey ok lets make one black, one hispanic, one trans gender and asian, and one Native American. But see since there are only four people in this group well I guess some race or ethnic group has to be left out. Whoever that is well, you should already be offended. They only have four people. Maybe they should make it a Fantastic 25. That way everyone can be represented in the proper way. But probably not even then.

It really sounds to me that you don't even want this movie made because you feel the entire concept of this group is dated. Including four white people hanging out with each other.

[charliehustle415]

make the fantastic four indian, nuff said

Rahul Richardswami
Sumi Surendra
Jayapal Surendra
Bhima Gupta
Fareed Richardswami
Vasana Richardswami

[CosmiComic]

So it sounds like to me your upset that the movie is even being made not that it might have a white cast. I mean this is bonkers. Its a white guy married to a white girl who has a white brother. And the other white guy is best friends with the leader. Now wtf is wrong with this? This is crazy. I mean is this where we are now? That everything has to be diversified so it shows a race. Hey ok lets make one black, one hispanic, one trans gender and asian, and one Native American. But see since there are only four people in this group well I guess some race or ethnic group has to be left out. Whoever that is well, you should already be offended. They only have four people. Maybe they should make it a Fantastic 25. That way everyone can be represented in the proper way. But probably not even then.

It really sounds to me that you don't even want this movie made because you feel the entire concept of this group is dated. Including four white people hanging out with each other.

Jeez, did I trigger you or something? I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here

But no, I don't like FF. I don't think they'd be a great addition to the MCU. I've never hid that. But whether I like them or not, you can't deny they benefited from systemic racism, because Marvel didn't bother to create a similar family of heroes for non-White heroes. The Avengers and X-Men at least allow for more diverse heroes than the FF. The fact I think they're boring and dated doesn't help

And really, you're going to say 'we have to diversify everything now'? That's such a reactionary statement. As if White heroes are few in number.