Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Albert1981]

I've enjoyed this discussion and your insights and thoughts as well!



Absolutely. I think everyone is operating under the assumption that the D+ shows won't pull the audience size the films do, so what the shows explain, the films will have to cover just to catch everyone up.

That may become problematic down the road depending on how convoluted things get, but I don't think this particular movie will have much of a issue with it. Audiences are familiar with the basic idea of the multiverse and Endgame already explained how it works in the MCU (Marvel will assume anyone watching Strange 2 saw Endgame and thus skim over the details) so it'll really just be a matter of the film reminding audiences of those branching timelines and telling us that there's now an infinite amount of them. Honestly, it should require less of an info-dump than Widow or Shang explaining their family backstories.

We mustn't forget; complex concepts do not always require complex explanations.



Who's been brought back?

I agree with you that this could get unwieldly but that will depend on how Marvel handles it. So far the multiverse has only brought us a few variants who are easy to recognize as their own unique characters (like Sylvie) and the opportunity for Marvel to troll the fans (Ralph Bhoner). Oh, and What If gave us some fun "what if?" moments that have no real bearing on the MCU.

You're right that this could be a house of cards that collapses under its own weight, but the MCU has been under that kind of threat from the very beginning; a continuous shared narrative across dozens of films was already a logistical challenge, the multiverse will only be as big a problem as Marvel makes it. Thus far, every time they've expanded the universe (adding magic, mythology, more aliens, dimensions, etc.,) it's been fine. No reason to expect them to drop the ball now.



Spidey is a big enough draw the film will do well regardless of whoever else is in it. As for whether he remains a public hero....I'd be more concerned with whether Holland sticks around long enough to explore that in the first place. As I understand it, his contract is nearly fulfilled and who knows what will happen afterwards?



I'm sure Marvel has tons of market research for this, but from where we're sitting it's hard to tell who is more popular. But that's immaterial; if Wanda has become highly popular then that's good for Strange2; it'll mean a higher box office.

I get why you're concerned but I think you're worried for (mostly) nothing. All of this? It's the same stuff Marvel has been doing from the start. We were worried if Thor would fit into the MCU's world of iron men and super soldiers at one point, remember?

When Fiege and the other people who have crafted the MCU from the beginning leave, *that's* when we should be worried. That, or if the films stop making a viable profit. But Fiege and co are still here, the films are still making money, and everything else is just noise and dross.

Congratulations. You've convinced me to be less pessimistic about the MCU's future. Your arguments are really good. Very convincing. I mean, I'm still a "bit" more apprehensive than most of the posters on this thread, but so far Feige and his team haven't screwed things up thus far. Wanda being popular will help Strange's movie for sure. But non Disney Plus viewers are gonna ask: That lady has kids now? Nobody has been brought back through multiverses thus far. And I hope it stays that way. But the door has now been opened. I can't even begin to speculate what role Holland will have in future Spider-Man projects. If he retires after No Way Home, I think the movie will be quite successful like Endgame was because Tony "retired" in that one.

I get that Marvel is dominating at the box office in 2021, but I'm sure if the films are making THAT much money. They cost SO much to produce and market. Hundreds of millions of dollars each! I think Marvel movies are terrible investments if you're investors. Sure you can make money after investing in them, but because of how much they cost, you won't be making THAT much. Each Marvel movie I think has to make some 500 MILLION DOLLARS in order just to break even. I read that the Eternals made a whopping $161.7 million dollars globally on its opening weekend (which is like the GDP of a small country). But to many in Marvel world, that's seen as a failure. Zhou's Nomadland is a WAY better investment than her Eternals. Nomadland cost five million dollars to make and made forty million. Low risk and high reward. You can divide the five million amongst ten people to reduce risks for each investor and you KNOW at least SOME people will watch your movie. Marvel movies have to clear tall financial hurdles for EVERY ONE of their films. And I don't think Black Widow, Shang-Chi and Eternals are gonna be earn that much cash. I can easily see Bob Chapek and his team asking Marvel Studios to cut down their budgets in the future and that could cause tension at Disney. That's why I agreed with your earlier comments. Disney has GOT to focus on their streaming business more as time goes on. I actually still can't believe movie studios "tricked" theaters into agreeing to 45-day windows for their movies. Lots of people are gonna be ONLY watching films from the comfort of their own homes from now on.

I think the backlash against the MCU also has something to do with MCU "stans". And I get that anger. I appreciate the passion and enthusiasm MCU fandom has for Marvel movies and shows, but I think those "stans" can be EXTREMELY obnoxious and abrasive. They can't take ANY criticism of the MCU no matter how justified. Thankfully the posters here have FAR more open minds when it comes to how the MCU can be improved. I'm ALL FOR greater diversity, representation and inclusion in the MCU. It's definitely overdue. But I don't think Marvel Studios should be patting themselves on their backs because THEY'RE doing it. Other studios have been and will continue to push further on those kinds of things. I also just think it's incredibly shitty for so-called "progressive" MCU stans to demand that the movies and shows not be delayed (so they can be entertained) while showing absolutely NO SOLIDARITY with film trade workers fighting for better working conditions and hours (a VERY progressive cause in my opinion). Even if it means strikes could delay future MCU projects. And I think it's ludicrous that so many folks on social media networks are pissing on Jack Kirby's art (whose work is the source material for the Eternals movie). I actually think a lot of the backlash against toxic MCU fandom is really well-deserved and it actually hurts the MCU in the long-run:

https://www.thebulwark.com/jack-kirb...e-mcu-buzzsaw/

I just want to add that I was, am and probably always will be pro-MCU. It's just that sometimes I'm disappointed by the behavior of my fellow fans. Fortunately here on CBR, we're fans with BRAINS!

[GenericUsername]

Non-Disney+ viewers will likely get a recap on what happened in those shows. They stated that you won't have to watch them to know what's going on.

[BlackClaw]

“Stans” (at least on Twitter) usually consist of teenagers who’ve grown up with these films since the first Iron Man. Thankfully fans outside of social media tend to be more level headed.

[MindofShadow]

Non-Disney+ viewers will likely get a recap on what happened in those shows. They stated that you won't have to watch them to know what's going on.

I'm gonna be curious if this is true or not.

I have a feeling they aren't gonna recap at all and just say "sign up for D+" lol

[Arsenal]

They gonna throw a line or 2 in to catch the audience up on the major developments of the show than keep on pushing towards the plot of the movie. No different than what the Avenger movies tend to do.

[The Kid]

I'm gonna be curious if this is true or not.

I have a feeling they aren't gonna recap at all and just say "sign up for D+" lol

I mean do people really need to watch the D+ shows to know what happened? Endgame ended with Steve giving the shield to Sam and anyone who skipped F&TWS would follow Cap 4 without any troubles. Similarly WV fleshed out Wanda but someone who only watches the movie will easily get the pertinent information in DS2 itself. Loki introduced Kang's variant but Kang himself will make his first appearance in Ant Man and no one will need to actually watch Loki to follow anything. I think the D+ is for people who want more of the characters and to get more Marvel but the movies will always make it clear to someone who only watches the movies what is happening

[Ascended]

Congratulations. You've convinced me to be less pessimistic about the MCU's future. Your arguments are really good. Very convincing. I mean, I'm still a "bit" more apprehensive than most of the posters on this thread, but so far Feige and his team haven't screwed things up thus far.

I wasn't trying to change your mind so much as just share and debate an opposing viewpoint, but I'm glad you're feeling less pessimistic.

And "Fiege and his team haven't screwed things up thus far" is about the strongest argument any of us could have in defending the MCU. These guys have made plenty of minor errors and mistakes and not every film/character has been for every fan, but they have yet to really let us down on the whole. Until they leave or burn out, we can probably expect the same degree of competency from them, for good or ill.

I get that Marvel is dominating at the box office in 2021, but I'm sure if the films are making THAT much money.

No, they're not making what they should be. But it's a pandemic. Worry less about the dollar amount and more about rankings; that's where you'll find how popular the films are compared to the competition. Yeah, the amount of investment has not matched the returns like we're used to. But they never were going to in these circumstances; these films started production before the pandemic so of course their budgets reflect pre-covid standards.

That's why I agreed with your earlier comments. Disney has GOT to focus on their streaming business more as time goes on. Lots of people are gonna be ONLY watching films from the comfort of their own homes from now on.

Agreed. The box office isn't the only metric now and plenty of people are willing to wait the 45 day window or pay the premium to buy it same-day-release. D+ is making nearly a billion dollars a month. That's f*cking crazy. Hollywood insiders don't seem to like streaming cutting into the theater experience and maybe streaming will backslide a bit after the pandemic finally ends, but I don't think we're ever going completely back to the way things were and film makers will just have to adjust to that.

[Gnostic]

Interesting how he referred to the main universe as the “616” like in the Doctor Strange 2 leaks. Also, RIP Chadwick Boseman.

[GenericUsername]

I'm gonna be curious if this is true or not.

I have a feeling they aren't gonna recap at all and just say "sign up for D+" lol

They don't have to recap it all. There aren't that many important plot points to go over. Much of WandaVision was suspenseful and not action oriented. They just have to have someone make mention of Wanda creating her family in the bubble in Westview.

[Albert1981]

I wasn't trying to change your mind so much as just share and debate an opposing viewpoint, but I'm glad you're feeling less pessimistic.

And "Fiege and his team haven't screwed things up thus far" is about the strongest argument any of us could have in defending the MCU. These guys have made plenty of minor errors and mistakes and not every film/character has been for every fan, but they have yet to really let us down on the whole. Until they leave or burn out, we can probably expect the same degree of competency from them, for good or ill.



No, they're not making what they should be. But it's a pandemic. Worry less about the dollar amount and more about rankings; that's where you'll find how popular the films are compared to the competition. Yeah, the amount of investment has not matched the returns like we're used to. But they never were going to in these circumstances; these films started production before the pandemic so of course their budgets reflect pre-covid standards.



Agreed. The box office isn't the only metric now and plenty of people are willing to wait the 45 day window or pay the premium to buy it same-day-release. D+ is making nearly a billion dollars a month. That's f*cking crazy. Hollywood insiders don't seem to like streaming cutting into the theater experience and maybe streaming will backslide a bit after the pandemic finally ends, but I don't think we're ever going completely back to the way things were and film makers will just have to adjust to that.

Here's hoping that Feige's creative freedom won't be hampered by studio politics. And I'm hoping the MCU gets more "comic-book" while not getting into weird esoteric and convoluted storytelling. I personally like watching movies from home, but I don't want people in the theater business to lose their jobs. But I think the 45-day window makes it harder for cinemas. I think Spider-Man 3 will do well (for pandemic standards). But man, THREE HOURS! Is this the MCU's answer to Lawrence of Arabia?! I think they might have to have an intermission for this film. Good Lord!

[Albert1981]

“Stans” (at least on Twitter) usually consist of teenagers who’ve grown up with these films since the first Iron Man. Thankfully fans outside of social media tend to be more level headed.

I'm not level-headed. I didn't know "stans" are so young. I don't do the whole social media network thing so I don't understand what's going on there. I imagine things can get quite toxic. I wish they would knock off their bad behavior. It's just making folks hate the MCU even more than they already do.

[Ascended]

Here's hoping that Feige's creative freedom won't be hampered by studio politics. And I'm hoping the MCU gets more "comic-books" while not getting into weird esoteric and convoluted storytelling. I personally like watching movies from home, but I don't want people in the theater business to lose their jobs. But I think the 45-day window makes it harder for cinemas. I think Spider-Man 3 will do well (for pandemic standards). But man, THREE HOURS! Is this the MCU's answer to Lawrence of Arabia?! I think they might have to have an intermission for this film. Good Lord!

With everything that seems to be happening in that movie I'm actually glad the run time is so long.

[charliehustle415]

Interesting how he referred to the main universe as the “616” like in the Doctor Strange 2 leaks. Also, RIP Chadwick Boseman.

When did Boseman get canonized as THE Black Panther as if he is the Alpha and the Omega when it comes to T'Challa?

It is super sad that he died, but fictional characters get recast all the time

[inisideguy]

When did Boseman get canonized as THE Black Panther as if he is the Alpha and the Omega when it comes to T'Challa?

It is super sad that he died, but fictional characters get recast all the time

I understand everyones passions on this. I personally don't know what I would have done. But this is a damn if you do damn if you don't situation. If they recast him, there will be a bunch of people complaining that way to. I think they should have. But there are a lot of emotions on both sides with this.

[Albert1981]

With everything that seems to be happening in that movie I'm actually glad the run time is so long.

Just pray your bladder will be able to hold up throughout the duration of the film.