Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Chris0013]

So...do we have odds on if Val will be showing up to recruit Kate at the end?? And what about Jen in the She-Hulk show??

[The Kid]

The MCU has not done right by Sharon. At all. It's annoying. I don't think they let Natasha live up to her potential either though. Even in her own movie, Yelena outshone her.

Agreed on both counts. I liked Natasha well enough in the MCU but Yelena in one appearance felt way more interesting

[MindofShadow]

Agreed on both counts. I liked Natasha well enough in the MCU but Yelena in one appearance felt way more interesting

I think that was by design.

[The Kid]

I think that was by design.

I meant she was more interesting to me in her first appearance than Nat had been in the entire MCU so far

[Chris0013]

I think that was by design.

I assume you mean they made Yelena more prominent in the movie as an equal?? But that does make sense as she is going to carry the title forward.

[MindofShadow]

I meant she was more interesting to me in her first appearance than Nat had been in the entire MCU so far

Well widow was nothing more than an ensemble piece in any other movie

I assume you mean they made Yelena more prominent in the movie as an equal?? But that does make sense as she is going to carry the title forward.

Yeah, Natasha was a dead end character by the time her solo was there. Yelena was the future if they wanted to pursue another widow-esque character.

[John Venus]

The MCU has not done right by Sharon. At all. It's annoying. I don't think they let Natasha live up to her potential either though. Even in her own movie, Yelena outshone her.

Yeah, it's disappointing that Natasha didn't get a trilogy of movies like her fellow Avengers and they basically crammed everything into her first movie. Also, kind of weird that they made Alexei her father figure especially when you consider his comic counterpart, he could have easily been a shoe in for the villain.

I think Florence Pugh is just a more charismatic performer than ScarJo (I like her but her acting range is limited). But I think she would have scene stealer regardless of the size of her role. In the case though, I think they wanted to set her up as Natasha's successor in the MCU.

[John Venus]

I meant she was more interesting to me in her first appearance than Nat had been in the entire MCU so far

I thought Nat was at her best in Winter Soldier. She got short changed in every other appearance she made.

[MindofShadow]

I thought Nat was at her best in Winter Soldier. She got short changed in every other appearance she made.

It was a movie within her wheelhouse. Even moreso than her own solo.

[Frontier]

IW and EG at least showed us how far he's come in his skill set and made him closer to his comic book iteration. Thus far, nothing we've seen of him in NWH has made him look good. Even Ragnarok made him enigmatic like his comic book counterpart.

Yeah, I don't see the guy from IW/EG helping Peter on a whim.

Wanda in Dr Strange 2 is more like Hulk in Rangarok that Widow in TWS. As for Clea, at this point, it would probably make more sense to introduce her as Strange's successor rather than his love interest/fellow sorcerer in the MCU.

I feel like Wanda will have more story in MoM than Hulk did in Ragnarok what with her kids and her Scarlet Witch deal now and how that effects the world of magic.

Marvel in general just seems extremely disinterested or averse to Clea for some reason. Voodoo, Billy, or even, say, Magik would probably be more likely to be primed as Strange's successors but I don't think that means we shouldn't see Clea in a Dr. Strange movie.

Widow has always been a Cap adjacent character especially in the Brubaker run and she served as a good foil for Steve. It's not Natasha's fault that she is more interesting than Sharon Carter. Sharon is so bland she probably thinks vanilla ice cream is too spicy.

Sharon was more of a foil for Steve in the Brubaker run than Natasha was. Natasha mostly interacted with Bucky in that run.

I don't think Brubaker and Waid's Sharon was "bland."

Carol doesn't count as an example. Since Carol, Monica and Kamala are all part of the same franchise. Like how Cap, Bucky and Falcon are.

I don't think it's comparable unless they do a Captain America movie called "The America's."

So...do we have odds on if Val will be showing up to recruit Kate at the end?? And what about Jen in the She-Hulk show??

I think they're too straightforward hero-types compared to what Valentina is looking for with US Agent and Yelena.

I thought Nat was at her best in Winter Soldier. She got short changed in every other appearance she made.

It's kind of ironic that Winter Soldier felt more like a Superhero Spy Thriller than Black Widow's own movie did (in my opinion).

[Arsenal]

So...do we have odds on if Val will be showing up to recruit Kate at the end?? And what about Jen in the She-Hulk show??

Nah, unless Kate and Clint have a major falling out at the end, I feel like if Val shows up she's more likely to approach Echo than anybody else.

[John Venus]

Yeah, I don't see the guy from IW/EG helping Peter on a whim.

Yeah, what happened to the Strange who said he will let Stark and Tony die if it meant saving the universe and later gambled Stark's life in EG so they could win? Only explanation is that his ego grew three sizes after EG.

I feel like Wanda will have more story in MoM than Hulk did in Ragnarok what with her kids and her Scarlet Witch deal now and how that effects the world of magic.

Marvel in general just seems extremely disinterested or averse to Clea for some reason. Voodoo, Billy, or even, say, Magik would probably be more likely to be primed as Strange's successors but I don't think that means we shouldn't see Clea in a Dr. Strange movie.

We'll see.

We are getting deeper into magic world so we'll get more magical characters down the line. I rather Marvel take their time and give each character a real introduction instead of rushing it. We'll definitely see Clea, Voodoo, grown up Billy and Magik at some point. I don't think they're averse to it so much as other characters took priority.

Sharon was more of a foil for Steve in the Brubaker run than Natasha was. Natasha mostly interacted with Bucky in that run.

I don't think Brubaker and Waid's Sharon was "bland."

For the movieverse, Natasha made the most sense as Steve's foil.

To each their own but I've always found her to be the least interesting aspect of Cap comics. My preferred Cap love interests from the comics are Rachel Leighton and Bernie Rosenthal.

I don't think it's comparable unless they do a Captain America movie called "The America's."

Cap's third movie was basically an Avengers movie.

TWS was also an ensemble with Cap, Falcon, Widow, Fury and Hill forming a team. In CM2's case, the title actually reflects the content rather than the other way around.

I wouldn't put it past Marvel to do a 'United States of Captain America' adaptation at some point given the reception to 'Falcon & Winter Soldier'.

[Frontier]

Yeah, what happened to the Strange who said he will let Stark and Tony die if it meant saving the universe and later gambled Stark's life in EG so they could win? Only explanation is that his ego grew three sizes after EG.

I figure that's what Marvel will go with.

We are getting deeper into magic world so we'll get more magical characters down the line. I rather Marvel take their time and give each character a real introduction instead of rushing it. We'll definitely see Clea, Voodoo, grown up Billy and Magik at some point. I don't think they're averse to it so much as other characters took priority.

I would still expect Dr. Strange supporting characters to appear in and be relevant in a Dr. Strange movie.

For the movieverse, Natasha made the most sense as Steve's foil.

I get that. I don't even mind Widow getting character focus. I just think Sharon could've been better used.

To each their own but I've always found her to be the least interesting aspect of Cap comics. My preferred Cap love interests from the comics are Rachel Leighton and Bernie Rosenthal.

I guess for me I got into comics when they were settling Sharon pretty firmly as Steve's endgame, so that's how I see her, but I do enjoy Diamondback. I never forge Nick Spencer for how he used her in his Cap run .

Cap's third movie was basically an Avengers movie.

TWS was also an ensemble with Cap, Falcon, Widow, Fury and Hill forming a team. In CM2's case, the title actually reflects the content rather than the other way around.

I wouldn't put it past Marvel to do a 'United States of Captain America' adaptation at some point given the reception to 'Falcon & Winter Soldier'.

Yeah, but Steve was still the central and lead character at the end of the day so it was still a Captain America movie. Would the same not be true for The Marvels or is it a true ensemble piece with three women? Either way, Marvel's first solo female film star isn't getting a solo anymore.

[Ascended]

Yeah, but Steve was still the central and lead character at the end of the day so it was still a Captain America movie. Would the same not be true for The Marvels or is it a true ensemble piece with three women? Either way, Marvel's first solo female film star isn't getting a solo anymore.

I think y'all are putting too much emphasis on the name, honestly.

We have no idea what this movie is going to look like. If Monica and Kam have roles equivalent to that of Bucky and Falcon, then this is a Carol film regardless of what it's called because the other two will be strictly supporting cast. If she's the main lead and the other two are there to primarily advance and enrich Carol's narrative, then the movie could be called "CGI Sparklefist Mega Action Super Attack Hour...in 3D!" and it'll still be a Carol Danvers film.

If the film gives equal (or near equal) screen time and emphasis to all three, then it's Marvel's first all girl ensemble film. Which is still cool.

Just depends on how important the other girls are to the story. And we couldn't have "The Americas" because Sam and Bucky don't riff on Steve's name (other than Sam being the new Cap, I mean), but Monica and Kam do. I agree that Carol's (full) name not being in the title is a little insulting, but you can also look at it like Carol is inviting these other women (who're all Marvels too, not like the name doesn't fit) to stand up in the spotlight with her and share the wealth, and that's a very Carol thing to do. I like the idea of women lifting up women, even if it's just in a movie title.

And I wonder if ensembles are just what Marvel is gonna do this phase? Other than (brand new) Shang Chi, which was firmly focused on him, most every other project from phase 4 has been some kind of team up. It's either been a group effort (Wandavision, F&tWS, Eternals), or a group effort that was really introducing the new legacy (Widow, Hawkeye). Even Loki teamed up with himself. And the stuff that hasn't come out yet looks like most of it might follow the same pattern.

It's a transitory phase, really, as we get into the post-Tony/Steve MCU, so I guess it makes a kind of sense to reset the board now and get all the new players in, and get the old players into their new positions. And the quickest way to do that is to ensembles.

Anyway. Anyone else hear the new Hawkeye theory? Not to spoil anything, but some folks are making a real big jump in logic and saying that Clint's wife Laura might actually be Mockingbird, forced to retire, change her name, and stay on the down low. They say that this is why she's not in NYC with Clint and the kids, and why we've never seen her off the farm, ever. It's a fun theory and it does fit; Fury hooked Clint up with an off-the-books farm when he joined SHIELD. Seems like an awfully big sign-on bonus....but if Fury did that because "Laura" needed a place to disappear, and the farm was used to help leverage Clint into replacing the agent Fury was about to lose......

I don't think this is true but it's fun to think about.

[Frontier]

I think y'all are putting too much emphasis on the name, honestly.

We have no idea what this movie is going to look like. If Monica and Kam have roles equivalent to that of Bucky and Falcon, then this is a Carol film regardless of what it's called because the other two will be strictly supporting cast. If she's the main lead and the other two are there to primarily advance and enrich Carol's narrative, then the movie could be called "CGI Sparklefist Mega Action Super Attack Hour...in 3D!" and it'll still be a Carol Danvers film.

If the film gives equal (or near equal) screen time and emphasis to all three, then it's Marvel's first all girl ensemble film. Which is still cool.

Just depends on how important the other girls are to the story. And we couldn't have "The Americas" because Sam and Bucky don't riff on Steve's name (other than Sam being the new Cap, I mean), but Monica and Kam do. I agree that Carol's (full) name not being in the title is a little insulting, but you can also look at it like Carol is inviting these other women (who're all Marvels too, not like the name doesn't fit) to stand up in the spotlight with her and share the wealth, and that's a very Carol thing to do. I like the idea of women lifting up women, even if it's just in a movie title.

And I wonder if ensembles are just what Marvel is gonna do this phase? Other than (brand new) Shang Chi, which was firmly focused on him, most every other project from phase 4 has been some kind of team up. It's either been a group effort (Wandavision, F&tWS, Eternals), or a group effort that was really introducing the new legacy (Widow, Hawkeye). Even Loki teamed up with himself. And the stuff that hasn't come out yet looks like most of it might follow the same pattern.

It's a transitory phase, really, as we get into the post-Tony/Steve MCU, so I guess it makes a kind of sense to reset the board now and get all the new players in, and get the old players into their new positions. And the quickest way to do that is to ensembles.p

I guess to me it's just weird to turn a solo film into an ensemble especially when Carol was their only female solo movie star without an "and" attached to them. I get it, equal billing and giving the women equal focus, but it's just a weird look to me.