Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I think y'all are putting too much emphasis on the name, honestly.

We have no idea what this movie is going to look like. If Monica and Kam have roles equivalent to that of Bucky and Falcon, then this is a Carol film regardless of what it's called because the other two will be strictly supporting cast. If she's the main lead and the other two are there to primarily advance and enrich Carol's narrative, then the movie could be called "CGI Sparklefist Mega Action Super Attack Hour...in 3D!" and it'll still be a Carol Danvers film.

If the film gives equal (or near equal) screen time and emphasis to all three, then it's Marvel's first all girl ensemble film. Which is still cool.

Just depends on how important the other girls are to the story. And we couldn't have "The Americas" because Sam and Bucky don't riff on Steve's name (other than Sam being the new Cap, I mean), but Monica and Kam do. I agree that Carol's (full) name not being in the title is a little insulting, but you can also look at it like Carol is inviting these other women (who're all Marvels too, not like the name doesn't fit) to stand up in the spotlight with her and share the wealth, and that's a very Carol thing to do. I like the idea of women lifting up women, even if it's just in a movie title.

And I wonder if ensembles are just what Marvel is gonna do this phase? Other than (brand new) Shang Chi, which was firmly focused on him, most every other project from phase 4 has been some kind of team up. It's either been a group effort (Wandavision, F&tWS, Eternals), or a group effort that was really introducing the new legacy (Widow, Hawkeye). Even Loki teamed up with himself. And the stuff that hasn't come out yet looks like most of it might follow the same pattern.

It's a transitory phase, really, as we get into the post-Tony/Steve MCU, so I guess it makes a kind of sense to reset the board now and get all the new players in, and get the old players into their new positions. And the quickest way to do that is to ensembles.

Anyway. Anyone else hear the new Hawkeye theory? Not to spoil anything, but some folks are making a real big jump in logic and saying that Clint's wife Laura might actually be Mockingbird, forced to retire, change her name, and stay on the down low. They say that this is why she's not in NYC with Clint and the kids, and why we've never seen her off the farm, ever. It's a fun theory and it does fit; Fury hooked Clint up with an off-the-books farm when he joined SHIELD. Seems like an awfully big sign-on bonus....but if Fury did that because "Laura" needed a place to disappear, and the farm was used to help leverage Clint into replacing the agent Fury was about to lose......

I don't think this is true but it's fun to think about.

I've seen that theory pop up so I googled it. It's Hawkeye's version of who is the Engineer. It's a way to make Mrs. Hawkeye more interesting. It's similar to me wanting one of Hawkeye's kids to be a mutant. Neither is gonna happen but I get the appeal.

[John Venus]

Yeah, but Steve was still the central and lead character at the end of the day so it was still a Captain America movie. Would the same not be true for The Marvels or is it a true ensemble piece with three women? Either way, Marvel's first solo female film star isn't getting a solo anymore.

I guess to me it's just weird to turn a solo film into an ensemble especially when Carol was their only female solo movie star without an "and" attached to them. I get it, equal billing and giving the women equal focus, but it's just a weird look to me.

Ascended is correct. CM2 being titled 'The Marvels' just means that Kamala and Monica won't just be sidekicks in the narrative but will be on an equal footing with Carol. This doesn't mean Carol will be lacking in character development, since she hasn't met Kamala and adult Monica, it means the movie would be about the trio forging a connection with each other. Thus the movie is still centered on it's main characters who all share a common connection. This is a totally different scenario than Dr Strange having to share his solo with two other characters, Wanda and Ms America, with whom he only shares a tangential connection with.

And with the heavy push in diversity that Marvel is making I highly doubt Carol will remain as the only big screen solo female lead. X-Men alone could net them several solo franchise's and that's not accounting for characters who are minor in the comics getting their own solo adaptation the way Echo and Agatha are getting their own shows.

[Frontier]

Ascended is correct. CM2 being titled 'The Marvels' just means that Kamala and Monica won't just be sidekicks in the narrative but will be on an equal footing with Carol. This doesn't mean Carol will be lacking in character development, since she hasn't met Kamala and adult Monica, it means the movie would be about the trio forging a connection with each other. Thus the movie is still centered on it's main characters who all share a common connection. This is a totally different scenario than Dr Strange having to share his solo with two other characters, Wanda and Ms America, with whom he only shares a tangential connection with.

And with the heavy push in diversity that Marvel is making I highly doubt Carol will remain as the only big screen solo female lead. X-Men alone could net them several solo franchise's and that's not accounting for characters who are minor in the comics getting their own solo adaptation the way Echo and Agatha are getting their own shows.

I hope we still get future Captain Marvel movies though.

I feel like there are definitely X-Men with solo potential but that it might be more likely for Disney+ spinoffs.

[John Venus]

I don't see how the movie we are going to get in 2023 isn't a Captain Marvel movie.

[Frontier]

I don't see how the movie we are going to get in 2023 isn't a Captain Marvel movie.

I meant a movie actually called "Captain Marvel" and focusing more on just Carol.

Unless now it's exclusively just "The Marvels."

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I prefer the Marvels over NWH and MoM. It feels more focused in its fanservice. Having Carol deal with a naive fangirl (Kamala) and someone she's let down (Monica) is a good character based pitch to me.

For NWH I would've just preferred Scorpion goes after Peter.

Dr. Strange 2 should've been Strange stretched thin dealing with Nightmare and Mordo at the same time.

I'm not against the multiverse or teamups. I'm just not convinced MoM was the way to go.

[The Kid]

Yeah, but Steve was still the central and lead character at the end of the day so it was still a Captain America movie. Would the same not be true for The Marvels or is it a true ensemble piece with three women? Either way, Marvel's first solo female film star isn't getting a solo anymore.

I agree with WS but not Civil War. To me, that was a Cap/Tony movie. That film could have easily been called Iron Man 4 and I don't think people would have argued with. I still wish Cap got his own singular 3rd movie that focused on his supporting cast more like Sam/Bucky/Sharon and had the Serpent Society as villains. Either that or just calling the film Marvel's Civil War and giving Cap a true solo when he's Nomad. Not a huge complaint but a what if I have

[John Venus]

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing how Carol, Monica and Kamala mix together. Like you said, Monica resents her but Kamala idolizes her. So Monica and Carol will have to come to an understanding while Kamala gets a dose of 'never meet your heroes'.

Tom Holland has said the original plan was for Kraven to show up in the third movie. I honestly would have preferred Kraven and Scorpion. But even though it's not what I would have preferred, NWH still looks to be entertaining.

For Dr Strange, I don't mind Wanda being a co-lead. But I think Ms America should have been reserved for a different project. But who knows maybe I will change my mind after seeing a trailer or the movie itself.

[John Venus]

I agree with WS but not Civil War. To me, that was a Cap/Tony movie. That film could have easily been called Iron Man 4 and I don't think people would have argued with. I still wish Cap got his own singular 3rd movie that focused on his supporting cast more like Sam/Bucky/Sharon and had the Serpent Society as villains. Either that or just calling the film Marvel's Civil War and giving Cap a true solo when he's Nomad. Not a huge complaint but a what if I have

I really wish D+ shows were around back then. I really wanted to see more of Cap's time with the Secret Avengers.

[Ascended]

I'm not against the multiverse or teamups. I'm just not convinced MoM was the way to go.

It does seem a little all over the place. Wanda's involvement makes sense at least, but America seems like an odd fit even for a movie about the multiverse.

And the Spidey films have dropped plot points like it's a habit (Vulture, Damage Control, Scorpion, etc) so NWH is just continuing the trend, I guess.

But these movies aren't out yet. We don't even have a trailer for Strange2. No matter how you slice it, these aren't the stories I'd have personally wanted to see, but that doesn't mean the films are going to be bad or anything. Cumberbatch's comments are cause for some little concern, but we also know that Marvel films things in such a way that even the actors are sometimes clueless about what they're doing, so it may easily turn out that his worries (and our's) are for nothing.

[mace11]

Spider-Man No Way Home Banned in China According to Reports

[Frontier]

I agree with WS but not Civil War. To me, that was a Cap/Tony movie. That film could have easily been called Iron Man 4 and I don't think people would have argued with. I still wish Cap got his own singular 3rd movie that focused on his supporting cast more like Sam/Bucky/Sharon and had the Serpent Society as villains. Either that or just calling the film Marvel's Civil War and giving Cap a true solo when he's Nomad. Not a huge complaint but a what if I have

I think Tony was like Thanos in IW where the antagonist was as central to the narrative as the hero, even though Zemo was the villain.

I do think another standalone Cap movie before Civil War would've been beneficial.

[John Venus]

I would love a standalone Cap movie but I'm not sure what it could be about whether it would have been as successful as the CW movie. Audiences haven't reacted too well to 'filler' MCU movies: IM3, Thor: TDW, Ant-Man and even Captain Marvel and Black Widow all suffered from this to a degree. Audiences hate retreads and want to see a new character or concept introduced or cross overs or something that progresses the overarching narrative. The Netflix shows and AoS got some degree of hate from general audiences for not connecting to the greater MCU.

[BlackClaw]

I would love a standalone Cap movie but I'm not sure what it could be about whether it would have been as successful as the CW movie. Audiences haven't reacted too well to 'filler' MCU movies: IM3, Thor: TDW, Ant-Man and even Captain Marvel and Black Widow all suffered from this to a degree. Audiences hate retreads and want to see a new character or concept introduced or cross overs or something that progresses the overarching narrative. The Netflix shows and AoS got some degree of hate from general audiences for not connecting to the greater MCU.

From what I remember, the Netflix shows really tried to connect to the greater MCU. They keep talking about “the incident” (battle of New York), the Judas bullets were reverse engineered from chituari technology, and they reference the other characters (“the green guy”, “the guy with the hammer”). It’s just that since the film and television divisions were run by different people at the time, Feige said no.

[mace11]

From what I remember, the Netflix shows really tried to connect to the greater MCU. They keep talking about “the incident” (battle of New York), the Judas bullets were reverse engineered from chituari technology, and they reference the other characters (“the green guy”, “the guy with the hammer”). It’s just that since the film and television divisions were run by different people at the time, Feige said no.

Here is recent info from a book about marvel studios.

Marvel Studios was Locked Out of Control over Daredevil, Blade, Ghost Rider & More
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFne8ufiAeU


Marvel Studios Intended to use Daredevil in Phase 2 but Marvel Entertainment Shut Them Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8tEi6YZnpM


https://community.cbr.com/showthread...72#post5799972