Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

But if you try sometimes, you might find, you can give fans what they need.

I had no problems with how they handed Scarlet Witch and fully enjoyed the movie. As for cameos, I did expect more, but I can't complain about what I did get, and by that I mean Bruce Campbell and "the Classic".

The Illuminati was also pretty cool. I loved how they played the 90s X-men theme when we saw Xavier. I also liked how Dr. Strange thought the Fantastic Four was a band. I don't know if that was a deliberate callback to No Way Home when the other Spider-men thought the Avengers was a band, but it felt like one.

I have a feeling that we haven't seen the last of Scarlet Witch in the MCU either, but that's just a hunch. She's probabaly going to lay low for a while if she does return.

I feel like a lot of peoples' feelings about Wanda in the movie depend on their opinion of Wanda in general.

[The Kid]

I strongly disliked the new Strange. I said MCU Phase 4 was looking Michael Jordan when he was on the Wizards recently and I stand by that. Feige is looking washed up. Hopefully the FF and X-Men get everything moving smoothly again soon

[Albert1981]

Whenever I go to my hair salon, I always try to get my hairstylist and pedicurist friends to get into the MCU. So I think it's fair to say I'm doing my part to promote the franchise. The hairstylist repeatedly ignores my suggestions and the pedicurist says she loved RDJ as Iron Man. She had no idea who Wanda and Vision were though when I suggested she watch the Wanda, Falcon and Loki shows. Both of them preferred to talk about sports. LOL!

[Albert1981]

I also recently listened to a podcast that primarily discusses anime and manga, and one of its hosts absolutely TRASHED Strange 2. He didn't know what "the fuck was going on" for most of the film, and didn't understand "what the fuck Strange's powers were and where they came from." He also complained about why there wasn't a scene in the MoM where Strange "learned how to use his powers" and just did "whatever the fuck he needed to do to move the plot along." And he thought the film was full of comic book "boner moments" and felt that the movie was trying to make him impressed by having certain characters show up. Then another one of his co-hosts promptly chimed in by saying "We don't give a fuck about that shit!" And the third co-host said he "had heard good things about the MoM" but it appeared to me that he was leaning towards avoiding it. The first dude talking said that his wife and daughter thought Strange 2 was a shit film too. The funny thing is, all three hosts stated that they watched "most" of the MCU offerings (and enjoyed the overwhelming majority of them) and liked Shang-Chi and NWH in particular.

[Kingdom X]

I also recently listened to a podcast that primarily discusses anime and manga, and one of its hosts absolutely TRASHED Strange 2. He didn't know what "the fuck was going on" for most of the film, and didn't understand "what the fuck Strange's powers were and where they came from." He also complained about why there wasn't a scene in the MoM where Strange "learned how to use his powers" and just did "whatever the fuck he needed to do to move the plot along." And he thought the film was full of comic book "boner moments" and felt that the movie was trying to make him impressed by having certain characters show up. Then another one of his co-hosts promptly chimed in by saying "We don't give a fuck about that shit!" And the third co-host said he "had heard good things about the MoM" but it appeared to me that he was leaning towards avoiding it. The first dude talking said that his wife and daughter thought Strange 2 was a shit film too. The funny thing is, all three hosts stated that they watched "most" of the MCU offerings (and enjoyed the overwhelming majority of them) and liked Shang-Chi and NWH in particular.

Here for the Shang-Chi love. It often gets thrown with the rest when folks talk about Phase 4 being mediocre and I personally loved it. Only MCU origin story I’ll rewatch.

MoM is divisive in the weirdest way. There isn’t clear consensus on what folks did and didn’t like.

The next MCU project is Ms. Marvel right? How are folks feeling about that? I’m a little apprehensive. I love a good teen drama, but the trailer gave Disney Channel more than anything else.

[Overhazard]

Here for the Shang-Chi love. It often gets thrown with the rest when folks talk about Phase 4 being mediocre and I personally loved it. Only MCU origin story I’ll rewatch.

MoM is divisive in the weirdest way. There isn’t clear consensus on what folks did and didn’t like.

The next MCU project is Ms. Marvel right? How are folks feeling about that? I’m a little apprehensive. I love a good teen drama, but the trailer gave Disney Channel more than anything else.

I think Ms. Marvel might be okay, I know some people are kind of miffed about the power change, I suppose they wanted to scrub the whole inhuman thing and she can't be a mutant. It's not like she can eat a fruit, drink Gingold, or fall into some vat of chemicals. So she's just green lantern. It may be good.

[Frontier]

Here for the Shang-Chi love. It often gets thrown with the rest when folks talk about Phase 4 being mediocre and I personally loved it. Only MCU origin story I’ll rewatch.

I enjoyed Shang-Chi.

I don't think it needed all the Asian Myticism unless they really wanted Shang to be more Iron Fist than the kind of globe-trotting martial arts action of his actual comics...or the kaiju at the end. Like I wanted more martial arts fights and less Shang fighting monsters and doing general Superhero stuff with the 10 Rings. It made the first and second halves of the movie feel like they were from two different genres.

Wenwu was an emotionally investing antagonist but it felt like they kind of forgot about the fact that he led a terrorist organization so you felt more bad for him and so his daughter didn't seem like a legit villain at the end (I also felt Xialing's girl power message was also well-meaning, if a little tacked on)

I also felt like Katy was kind of forced to justify having a comedic sidekick involved in the plot (oh look, she has inexplicable archery skills!) to the point where Shang is now dragging her everywhere at the end.

The next MCU project is Ms. Marvel right? How are folks feeling about that? I’m a little apprehensive. I love a good teen drama, but the trailer gave Disney Channel more than anything else.

I feel like it's potentially going to be a show MCU stans adore but the reaction to comic Kamala fans might be more mixed what with them changing her powerset and potentially other stuff.

[Force de Phenix]

Lol no. People can voice when they are unhappy with something and you can choose not to read it. It was a cheap, campy horror flick that didn't do really anything to push anyone's story forward. And they could have introduced incursions in a one-shot or Spidey's movie.

This movie only serves bringing Raimi back into movies. And some of his fans are getting as bad as Snyder fans. So I'm not sure if that was a good thing.

You can choose not to watch anything too, but yet here we are. Well you can read this.

I think Raimi interpreted a character that was the incarnation of the book of the damned well. The mythology and chemistry for Disney's Scarlet Witch isn't the same as the old comics version, but it worked for what the movie was, a movie about a powerful witch and a sorcerer who's almost going to give in to the same power that she fell into.

I think some people wanted the variant of Wanda from the universe where they just eat cereal and watch cartoons which I don't get.

It's already past half a billion dollars at the box office and had the same dropoff as Spider-Man, and considering the fact that Spider-Man is the best selling superhero in history, he sells more than Batman and Superman, it's not that bad.

[GenericUsername]

You can choose not to watch anything too, but yet here we are. Well you can read this.

I think Raimi interpreted a character that was the incarnation of the book of the damned well. The mythology and chemistry for Disney's Scarlet Witch isn't the same as the old comics version, but it worked for what the movie was, a movie about a powerful witch and a sorcerer who's almost going to give in to the same power that she fell into.

I think some people wanted the variant of Wanda from the universe where they just eat cereal and watch cartoons which I don't get.

It's already past half a billion dollars at the box office and had the same dropoff as Spider-Man, and considering the fact that Spider-Man is the best selling superhero in history, he sells more than Batman and Superman, it's not that bad.

No one knows if something will be good until they see it, so not even remotely comparable.

And that book was a hack job. It didn't even work for the movies because it has the character trying to kidnap someone else's kids instead of interested in her own being in danger like the end of her show. And shows no concern for the rest of her family. With the huge plot hole that she could have just gone off somewhere remote where there aren't other people and recreated her happy bubble.

No one asked for Wanda to sit and watch cartoons and eat cereal so I don't know where you get that from. You just have a problem with people having a different opinion.

Crappy movies make money and good movies become cult favorites. It's not alien to movies. Audiences go out for a weekend to watch things. Usually the most publicized movies.

[gurkle]

I feel like a lot of peoples' feelings about Wanda in the movie depend on their opinion of Wanda in general.

I think people who thought she was already evil in WandaVision like this a bit more than those who liked her in the show -- though even they can't be completely satisfied, since no one can take her turn to villainy seriously, because it happens offscreen. Plus Strange even dismisses Westview as not important because she did the right thing in the end, so they don't even pretend this is a logical outgrowth of what she did in the show.

Wanda/Scarlet Witch is probably the worst villain in MCU history, because it's impossible to take her goal seriously or even believe that this actually is her goal. When we last saw her, she wiped her kids from existence to stop torturing a town. Now she will kill anyone to be a mother -- but no longer cares about the man she loves, or mentions her brother. That's not the character we know, that's an idiot who looks like her.

Several times in the movie they basically hang a lampshade on how stupid her plan is, and all it takes to make her stop is 30 seconds of the kids acting afraid of her, which makes no sense at all; if she's so evil she should just believe the kids are wrong and they'll learn she's right eventually.

So a character turns evil and irrational offscreen, does things that are both completely out of character and pointless, and becomes a Villain Sue who never even comes close to losing a fight. And in at the last minute, she snaps out of it and becomes good again for no good reason.

None of this means people are wrong to enjoy the movie. Raimi and Waldron gave up on having a story that made sense, ignored everything that happened in WandaVision (even the way the Darkhold worked in the show), and played the whole film for campy fun. Olsen chose to play Wanda as if she were a completely different person and chewed the scenery with gusto. All of that can be fun if you don't expect it to make sense.

But would they have been more popular and made even more money if they'd made Wanda in-character? Of course. People expected to see the first-ever team-up between their two most popular magic heroes, and not only do they never team up, they barely even fight each other. Even if Wanda had started the movie good and turned evil later (as was the plan in earlier drafts) that would have been more satisfying and gotten better reviews and more repeat business.

[Kingdom X]

No one knows if something will be good until they see it, so not even remotely comparable.

And that book was a hack job. It didn't even work for the movies because it has the character trying to kidnap someone else's kids instead of interested in her own being in danger like the end of her show. And shows no concern for the rest of her family. With the huge plot hole that she could have just gone off somewhere remote where there aren't other people and recreated her happy bubble.

No one asked for Wanda to sit and watch cartoons and eat cereal so I don't know where you get that from. You just have a problem with people having a different opinion.

Crappy movies make money and good movies become cult favorites. It's not alien to movies. Audiences go out for a weekend to watch things. Usually the most publicized movies.

Something that I find funny on these boards is how hard folks will go for their faves drumming up a storm when they feel like they haven't been treated or written well, but then be totally dismissive when someone else does it for their favorite.

Anyways... thanks for the folks who answered my Ms. Marvel question. I never had a huge attachment to her powers so it's mostly going to be the performances that make it or break it for me.

[Panic]

Something that I find funny on these boards is how hard folks will go for their faves drumming up a storm when they feel like they haven't been treated or written well, but then be totally dismissive when someone else does it for their favorite.

This. It amazes me that so many users can be so blatantly hypocritical, but it happens so often.

[MindofShadow]

Shang was good. The ending was weird but Shang was a good movie for sure.

https://comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel...leaked-a193774

Belloni also broke down the first-week performances of the live-action Marvel Studios series on Disney+, comparing the Avenger-fronted shows - Hawkeye (14.2M), Loki (12.2M), The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (8.3M), WandaVision (7.2M) - versus the only show that introduced a new character, Moon Knight (7M).

"So Moon Knight generated about half the initial viewership as Hawkeye, and many fans seem to dislike it intensely. I recently discussed the question of whether Marvel has a creative problem on my podcast, The Town, but even from a purely business perspective, Marvel needs to figure out how to generate Avenger-level interest from non-Avenger properties.

The upcoming She-Hulk is supposedly a mess, I’ve heard (even with Mark Ruffalo in a small role), and Ms. Marvel is another big test for fans. Nobody’s saying Marvel’s TV output is in trouble, but it’s something to keep an eye on."

I find this kinda shocking... I figured the MCU stamp was good enough, not that they needed to pop up before hand to drive interest.

[gurkle]

I find this kinda shocking... I figured the MCU stamp was good enough, not that they needed to pop up before hand to drive interest.

In the movies, definitely, but the PR machine for the movies may not work for the shows, when there are a lot more choices at home than in movie theatres. If Moon Knight were a theatrical movie it would have a lot less competition and the publicity could really go to work making people intrigued enough to see it opening weekend.

[Chris0013]

Harsh but true. You can't always give the fans what they want. Especially if it gets in the way of good story telling.

Yeah...but what if what you want good storytelling and we we get bad storytelling the the character assassination of a good character?