Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Starrius]

So, yeah, fun discussion.....

Thought the Thor trailer was fun. Looks like Waititi making another Thor movie. Impressive visuals. Needed more space goats.

As for the question of which god is gonna be butchered by Gorr (before y'all got distracted with politics), the obvious answer is Jane. I think (?) it's been said that her narrative is gonna hold relatively close to the source material (odd as that is to say, given the differences between 616 and MCU), which in my mind means the cancer plot. But instead of dying in the sun with the Mangog, she'll die fighting Gorr. Maybe Val will bring her back as a new Valkyrie or something.

Namor being in Panther 2 isn't a surprise (assuming this is real and what y'all think it is), we've been hearing those rumors for years and it's not a hard conclusion to jump to. Little sad they didn't cast an Asian/American actor for the role, I always figured Namor was Asian coded, but whatever. Atlantis isn't real, Namor can look like whatever, as long as he's vaguely recognizable as Namor. This thread is the first I'm hearing of it, and that image was too fuzzy to make out any details. Maybe it *is* an Asian/American actor and he's just closer to Benedict Wong's skin tone than Namor is colored in the comics. Either way, what skin tone Namor *might* have if he's *actually* in the movie is not even on the list of concerns I have going into BP2, and I question the motivations of anyone who feels different.

He was never Asian nor being alluded to Asian.
I never got the impression that he was Asian of any kind since I first saw him in Spider-Man in the Amazing Friends episode. I didn't think he was Asian when I saw him later in the 1960s Sub-Mariner cartoons.

How is Sub-Mariner Asian-coded?
What does that even mean?
also what kind of Asian are you referring to
Asia is a very diverse continent with 50 countries.


Sub-Mariner was created as the son of a Sub-Mariner woman named Fen and an white man Commander Leonard Mackenzie.
All of this was first revealed in Marvel Comics issue #1 in 1939.
There was no mention of Atlantis.


Namor: But mother, I don't quite understand. Why are Earth-people so bad? Wasn't my father and Earth-man?


Fen:

"Yes, my son - and a fine man - but his people were cruel - they invaded our ancient home deep in the waters at the South Pole, and nearly exterminated our entire race - I met your father in the year 1920, when a great ship ,"The Oracle" came from America on a scientific expedition - your father Commander Mackenzie was the captain, and they made their base on a ice-floe directly above our city"

I know some Geography. I know that the only ocean in the vicinity of the South Pole is the Southern Ocean which is also known as the Antarctic Ocean.


Outside the water, Sub-Mariner's mother appeared to have a complexion of a "white" person with blonde hair.
She told Namor that she was invested as spy for her mostnearly resembling the female of the white race.
There is nothing in the comic that shows that she looked unusual to the ship's crew. They just saw her as a regular woman.

before she went to spy,

She was addressed by the leader sitting on a throne.

"Thou, Fen - Beautiful Goddess of the Seals.
Thou shalt find thy way into the hands of these white monsters.
There to work to your feminine wiles to our racial advantage - get thee hence while there is still time!"

There is nothing that mentions that he was a king nor emperor.
There is nothing that mentions that she's his daughter


Namor's mother actually referred to themselves as Sub-Mariners


In her explanation to Namor in regards to being a spy, stowing away on a ship, being:

Within a very short time, we became fast friends, and I began to learn their strange tongue - they could never understand, though, how I could swim so much in the extremely cold water.
Of course, I had to frequently, for we Sub-Mariners cannot live out of water for longer than five hours at a stretch - many of us cannot live even that long

She sent Namor out as him leading their people into battle against the white men. She wanted to avenge the harm done to them. Namor's mother bare ill will towards the white people and wanted a war of revenge against them.


I actually typed this out while reading the comic. I am very sure about what I just typed to you.

[Albert1981]

BW was tonally all over the place. It starts out as this very serious movie highlighting the sad reality of how human trafficking impacts women. And then by the end we’re doing big CGI fests and forgiving the two “parents” who played active roles in getting Natasha and Yelena trafficked, abused, and mutilated.

Yeah, her parents were active supporters of General Dreykov. You could even say that Nat's "mother" acted like his Ghislaine Maxwell. I just think creating a "family" for Natasha was weird. The only thing good that came out of it was Yelena. And I'm used to the Marvel third act CGI fests now.

What I don't like about this phase so far is the constant "pandering" Disney is engaging in. I UNDERSTAND it is difficult to integrate Marvel properties that were previously used by other studios into the MCU, so I think it is perfectly fair that Marvel Studios is given some leeway in how they do it. But SO many movies and shows Marvel have made in the past year and a half have involved "cameos" from other Netflix, Sony, Fox and ABC Marvel "universes". And now Marvel Studios is gonna use Stan Lee's likeness for ANOTHER twenty years! All that stuff is pandering to me and has made me deeply cynical about how Disney is building the MCU into the the future. I'm looking forward to She-Hulk so much, but I want them to build on the Hulk "franchise" with characters like Thunderbolt Ross (RIP William Hurt), Betty Ross, Doc Sampson, the Leader or even Rick Jones. But I just got this feeling Marvel Studios wants to stuff an extended DD cameo into that show because people are excited about Murdock's return. I was doing some reading on Jackson's Nick Fury and his role in Secret Invasion (and I'm REALLY looking forward to that show too), but I found out that there was a character named Quake that was rumored to be part of it? I have no idea who this lady is, but apparently folks really want her to appear in Secret Invasion (for reasons I don't totally understand, maybe it's a "comics thing"). I just got this BAD feeling she's gonna be inserted unnaturally into that series so fans can have more "comic book boner moments." And I hear that Jessica Jones (another character who I am totally unfamiliar with) is going to possibly join the MCU in another project as well. I feel another "comic book boner moment" coming on. And of course Deadpool is gonna appear somewhere down the line. All I ask is that Disney integrates these characters more smoothly into their MCU movies and shows. Because I feel they're relying a LOT on cameos, Easter eggs and A-list stars right now. They never did this before. They didn't need to then. They still don't need to now.

[Frontier]

Why was Red Guardian thrown into a Russian gulag? It made no sense to me that such an obvious government asset was locked up in prison instead of paraded around and used more.

[The Kid]

Honestly, I missed a chunk of the Black Widow climax. Still don't know what happened there since I haven't rewatched the movie or cared enough to just see that scene again. I saw Natasha go up the base in the sky, passed out, and when I woke up it was at the scene where her and Taskmaster were falling through the sky. First time I think I've straight up fallen asleep while watching an MCU movie lol. Movie did give us Yelena who is fantastic so far so there's that

[Lukmendes]

My problem with Taskmaster:

A. They robbed all personality from the character. Even if they gender-flipped it, Taskmasters' personality is a big part of the characters' appeal outside the costume and skills.

Just that alone is bad enough.

I didn't know jack **** of Taskmaster before MvC3, but his personality and voice clips there are really good, ruining that by removing any sort of personality? **** off MCU lol.

[Chris0013]

Why was Red Guardian thrown into a Russian gulag? It made no sense to me that such an obvious government asset was locked up in prison instead of paraded around and used more.

Just one opinion...Dreykov seems to be about not drawing attention to himself or his operations. Alexei wanted to be front and center on the world stage as this great patriotic hero and that could have posed a threat to Dreykov's operations. However as you said RG is an asset...and instead of just killing him RG was put somewhere secure until Dreykov may have needed him.

[mace11]

Here is some views posted in this thread below about the first two episodes of ms.marvel.
THREAD: MS. MARVEL ON D+
Here is some other views.
I Just watched MS MARVEL! REACTION!

Chris C quote-
Feige literally told everyone that phase 4 and onward they would be changing things up, making some things less connected and more niche for different tastes. I don't understand why people keep getting mad if they don't like something new they release. The MCU is changing and it's not all one standard style and vibe anymore. I personally enjoy it all, but if someone doesn't that's okay, not everything is going to be for everyone anymore.

Shoaib Hussain quote-
Yeah you're totally right man... people are just giving it hate for no reason... they're making projects for everyone now not just for one type of audience...now it's for all collective audience...so people need to understand that

Bob The dope man quote-
The bandwagoners ALWAYS show up to hate popular things. They want to participate because its popular and being talked about. But they want to seem unique or "ahead of the curb" by hating on it.

Thecell quote-
The mcu always had varied tones and vibes(including the non canon mcu shows not made from marvel studios),but now for the canon mcu there is more varied tones and vibes happening in phase 4.

Thecell quote-
The mcu did not just have one type of project for one type of audience before phase 4(more so if you include the marvel mcu shows before disney plus)but now with phase 4 and the future there is and will be more varied content.Anyway before phase 4 there different types of projects and varied audiences but now is is more varied.It's clear there with folks with agendas that do not want that but they were a increasing loud minority but eventually they will be drowned out because marvel is not like star wars for example.That will be a painful lessen they will learn and are learning now,and the sooner the better.

________
Bet Tech quote-
What I like about the mcu is that there are different genres within it. The best shows/movies are ones that make me experience something I haven't before and marvel does that every time. They're always pushing the superhero envelope by pulling inspiration from other styles of film

Oleksandr Byelyenko quote-
I feel like people are misunderstanding phase 4. It is mirroring phase 1. It can have hit and misses. It will not show some greater plots or characters. I think really big stuff will be happening in next phase if not in phase 6.

@Rilist quote-
Ye but the products of phase 4 70% is not good. Ye it’s mirroring phase 1 with some hits and some misses… but that’s not suppose to be a good thing.


Thecell quote-
Even back then there were folks who did not like the mcu hulk movie or iron man 2 or thor. Grace from beyond the trailer did her mcu phase list and to her about half of the of the phase 1 movies were bad movies.Of course i disagree with her but phase 3 and 4 are the best phases of the mcu so far. Even the audiences and critics would agree looking at the scores on average.The only ones that were not box office hits is the hulk film in phase 1,black widow and maybe eternals for phase 4. For black widow however the disney plus money was added so overall it was not miss. Now if you talking about critics and the audiences all phase 1,2 and 3 are hits. Phase 4 is mostly hits.Eternals is not a hit on the rt score from critics but still hit with the average rating.The rating is still good. For shows that are not canon ironfist is not a hit for the critics and inhumans is not a hit for critics and audiences on average.
Captain marvel was a hit with the audience on rt originally but it got reviewed bombed like black panther but black pnather still remain positive while captain marvel did not but captain marvel did have a A cinemascore.


Thecell quote-
@Rilist Your view is the minority view looking at rt and cinemascores for phase 4.
Let's keep in mind there were few folks who said phase 3,2 and 1 had mostly bad movies or so-so ones.It's just with phase 4 that view is louder on the internet because of a few think what happen to star wars and dc overtime or folks who are more into the older heroes then the newer ones and of course the mcu having more women heroes or hardcore impatient x-men fans who are speaking up louder wanting too see the x-men in the mcu etc.. or combination of all that.

Note-captain marvel was a hit with the audience on rt originally but it got reviewed bombed like black panther but black pnather still remain positive while captain marvel did not but captain marvel did have a A cinemascore.

[mace11]

JUST WATCHED MS MARVEL. BEST 1st Episode of Marvel Shows | Honest Thoughts No Spoilers


THREAD: MS. MARVEL ON D+
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...99#post6062899

[Drops Of Venus]

He was never Asian nor being alluded to Asian.
I never got the impression that he was Asian of any kind since I first saw him in Spider-Man in the Amazing Friends episode. I didn't think he was Asian when I saw him later in the 1960s Sub-Mariner cartoons.

How is Sub-Mariner Asian-coded?
What does that even mean?
also what kind of Asian are you referring to
Asia is a very diverse continent with 50 countries.


Sub-Mariner was created as the son of a Sub-Mariner woman named Fen and an white man Commander Leonard Mackenzie.
All of this was first revealed in Marvel Comics issue #1 in 1939.
There was no mention of Atlantis.


Namor: But mother, I don't quite understand. Why are Earth-people so bad? Wasn't my father and Earth-man?


Fen:

"Yes, my son - and a fine man - but his people were cruel - they invaded our ancient home deep in the waters at the South Pole, and nearly exterminated our entire race - I met your father in the year 1920, when a great ship ,"The Oracle" came from America on a scientific expedition - your father Commander Mackenzie was the captain, and they made their base on a ice-floe directly above our city"

I know some Geography. I know that the only ocean in the vicinity of the South Pole is the Southern Ocean which is also known as the Antarctic Ocean.


Outside the water, Sub-Mariner's mother appeared to have a complexion of a "white" person with blonde hair.
She told Namor that she was invested as spy for her mostnearly resembling the female of the white race.
There is nothing in the comic that shows that she looked unusual to the ship's crew. They just saw her as a regular woman.

before she went to spy,

She was addressed by the leader sitting on a throne.

"Thou, Fen - Beautiful Goddess of the Seals.
Thou shalt find thy way into the hands of these white monsters.
There to work to your feminine wiles to our racial advantage - get thee hence while there is still time!"

There is nothing that mentions that he was a king nor emperor.
There is nothing that mentions that she's his daughter


Namor's mother actually referred to themselves as Sub-Mariners


In her explanation to Namor in regards to being a spy, stowing away on a ship, being:

Within a very short time, we became fast friends, and I began to learn their strange tongue - they could never understand, though, how I could swim so much in the extremely cold water.
Of course, I had to frequently, for we Sub-Mariners cannot live out of water for longer than five hours at a stretch - many of us cannot live even that long

She sent Namor out as him leading their people into battle against the white men. She wanted to avenge the harm done to them. Namor's mother bare ill will towards the white people and wanted a war of revenge against them.


I actually typed this out while reading the comic. I am very sure about what I just typed to you.

You're way too focused on what's written on page when racial coding can, and usually is, done through visual medium.




It's true that Namor isn't actually, canonically asian, but the fact that he looks asian enough that comics have actually acknowledged that (even if in racist ways :x) is where the coding impression comes from.

Here's Namor being called ''squinty'' because of his asian-like eyes, for example:



Maybe you don't see it, but lots of people have. There is a reason why asian fancastings for him were so popular. In fact, the asian reading of Namor is so strong even among creators that Greg Pak actually created an AU version of Namor called Namor Miyamoto for his X-Treme X-Men comic.

[mace11]

Edited above.

[MindofShadow]

Third act of BW was one of the most painful third acts in the MCU. Maybe the worst. I can't think of one worse off the top of my head.

When the ship started to explode, the movie got dumb (and horrendous green screen) really really really really really quick.

There were no satisfying fights between Tasky and anyone, the editing of the fights was horrible, the cgi was horrible, natasha flying around like superman with debris everywhere was just... jesus lol

Movie had its moments where it really really really worked but when it didnt... yeeeesh

[Username taken]

You're way too focused on what's written on page when racial coding can, and usually is, done through visual medium.




It's true that Namor isn't actually, canonically asian, but the fact that he looks asian enough that comics have actually acknowledged that (even if in racist ways :x) is where the coding impression comes from.

Here's Namor being called ''squinty'' because of his asian-like eyes, for example:



Maybe you don't see it, but lots of people have. There is a reason why asian fancastings for him were so popular. In fact, the asian reading of Namor is so strong even among creators that Greg Pak actually created an AU version of Namor called Namor Miyamoto for his X-Treme X-Men comic.

Damn, the racism of those WWII comics hurt my eyes.

[Username taken]

Here is some views posted in this thread below about the first two episodes of ms.marvel.
THREAD: MS. MARVEL ON D+
Here is some other views.
I Just watched MS MARVEL! REACTION!

The problem with that Ms Marvel series is the depiction of her powers don’t line up with the comics at all.

It’s like a different character being called Kamala Khan. There’s something very goofy and very endearing about how Kamala’s powers work in the comics.

The word “embiggen” became a thing because of Ms Marvel. Moving away from all that just rubs me the wrong way.

[Alan2099]

You're way too focused on what's written on page when racial coding can, and usually is, done through visual medium.

Funny thing is, if you look at the art, his eyes aren't drawn any squintier than the blondes are.

Here's Namor being called ''squinty'' because of his asian-like eyes, for example:

That's just you being racist.

Yellowjacket just calls him squinty. He doesn't say anything about him looking Asian.

[Drops Of Venus]

Funny thing is, if you look at the art, his eyes aren't drawn any squintier than the blondes are.

That's debatable. The shape of his eyes are drawn in a very particular way (exaggerated ''lashes'' that go upward) that was usually not used for caucasian characters. Anyway, the point of the whole panel is that he can pass for an asian man. The white woman immediately mistakes him for ''a jap'', and he specifically mentions his eyes being ''slanted'' as the reason why she got confused, calling it a ''mistake of nature''. How the **** else are you supposed to interpret this scene?

That's just you being racist.

Yellowjacket just calls him squinty. He doesn't say anything about him looking Asian.

He didn't need to, because it had been already established by that point that writers used his looks to crack asian jokes. It's called reading between the lines.