Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[mace11]

Ms. Marvel Suffers Poor Viewership vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows
https://thedirect.com/article/ms-mar...u-disney-shows

I think when the marvels come out there are going to be some folks who did not watch the the show and go back to it later.
There are those who never watch the incredible hulk movie for example until he show up in the avengers movies later.

[Ascended]

if its the keep subscribers they coulda had them run back to back or have the mix one week

having htem compete for half a season is odd, i don't remember them doing that before

I think this is the first time D+ has overlapped something, yeah.

And yes, if they wanted to keep a steady stream of new content to keep subs, launching Ms. Marvel when Kenobi was only half done seems odd. Perhaps there were scheduling wrinkles somewhere, or they felt that Ms. Marvel would be in more direct competition with another show somewhere and they wanted to avoid that?

But I don't think this counts as inter-company competition? Again, that's a very specific thing that doesn't usually happen just because you have two products on the shelf at once (just as Pepsi isn't really competing against Mountain Dew in any direct way). Disney loses nothing by having the shows on at the same time, other than *maybe* a few "first day" views, and that's assuming a large amount of people are picking one to watch over the other on Wednesday, which doesn't seem overly likely to me.

and yeah, im not watching because i don't have much interest in HS type stories personally. Just not my thing. I'm too behidn on other stuff anyway

Exactly. And that's fine, part of phase 4 was supposed to be about digging into other kinds of storytelling, stuff that might be a little more niche than their previous "empty carbs/wide appeal summer blockbuster" films. How successful Marvel has been at pulling this off is a whole discussion, but almost every project since Endgame has tried to break new ground by playing with different subgenres in some way, and often to a bigger degree than previous phases. Not all of them are going to be for all of us, yknow?

And we're past the point of needing to follow everything, I think. If you skip Ms. Marvel sure, you might be confused when she shows up in The Marvels, but a little dialogue exposition will clear that up easily enough. In the end I don't think it'll be much different than when a character we're not following guest stars in a book we do read; we might not know exactly what is up with the guest star, or even who they are, but we can still follow the story and if we're real curious we can always check out the guest star in their own book and/or back issues. Anyone watching The Marvels who is curious about Kamala can easily binge her show.

[mace11]

John campea is one of those that wanted the disney plus shows(star wars and marvel) to release around the same time for awhile now.
He talked about it on his show and that there should more competition etc..

[charliehustle415]

Shows overlap all the time, it's wild that shows can't have viewers if there is more than ONE at a time.

Not to sound like an old fogey, but I remember a time when multiple networks had multiple hit shows at the same time and they were so popular that is was the big reason why DVRs were invented.

[MindofShadow]

Not all of them are going to be for all of us, yknow?

Yup. My wife watched one episode of Moon Knight and went "yeah this isn't for me" lol.

Not everything has to be for every person.

And we're past the point of needing to follow everything, I think.

Its not like Marvel shows are dense lol. I could figure out the important stuff that happened in the show in about a 8 min wiki search TBH.

[Tofali]

Exactly, there is no rush catching up to the Disney+ Marvel shows. After Loki ended I knew for certain that the Marvel TV finale will never be fulfilling after watching WandaVision and F&WS so I promised myself never to watch Marvel shows week to week.

[MindofShadow]

Exactly, there is no rush catching up to the Disney+ Marvel shows. After Loki ended I knew for certain that the Marvel TV finale will never be fulfilling after watching WandaVision and F&WS so I promised myself never to watch Marvel shows week to week.

yeah The Marvels comes out in over a year, plenty of time to catch up if need be

[Kingdom X]

Just caught up with Ms. Marvel and I'm actually loving it. The show actually seems like it's interested in developing it's characters instead of overpromising on plot developments and cameos.

The timing for it's release is pretty rough though. It's concurrent with the most highly anticipated Star Wars show on the same streaming service, The Boys, Stranger Things, and the Umbrella Academy.

[mace11]

Here is john campea talking about ms marvel.
Ms Marvel The Lowest Rated Debut For A Marvel Disney+ Show

[Witchfan]

Disney+ Reveals New MCU Timeline Order With Doctor Strange 2
https://thedirect.com/article/doctor...imeline-disney

Spider-Man: Homecoming takes place in between Black Panther and Doctor Strange.

From Endgame onward, the stories take place in this order

Avengers: Endgame
Loki
What If...?
WandaVision
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Eternals
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel

[Albert1981]

I feel bad for Vellani because she seems like such a sweetheart and is really enthusiastic about her role. I'm also guilty of not watching Ms. Marvel (even though I have heard great things about it), but I've been suffering from severe Marvel burnout for a while now. I just recently watched a PBS documentary on Brian Wilson last week and I really liked it. I even watched it AGAIN a few days after I saw it the first time, and it felt like the old days when I used to watch MCU films REPEATEDLY. I don't agree with Disney's strategy of vomiting Marvel content on their streaming platforms and in theaters on an almost monthly basis. After having just watched the MoM, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a slow and gradual decline in interest in the MCU in the next five years if they don't slow down. I feel REALLY weird saying that because Strange 2 had the 10th best box office opening weekend in CINEMA HISTORY last month, so it would be natural to assume that the MCU is actually getting stronger. But I think we're getting VERY close to a saturation point for Marvel. Three MCU movies a year was like a six or seven hour commitment and people could have PLENTY of time to catch up on the films that they missed. Maybe Disney should make their Marvel shows available on DVD or air them on ABC sometimes. And cut down the length of them even if it means reducing the number of characters and storylines being introduced. That would be a good way of fighting off fatigue. As other posters have mentioned here previously, I think the creators of the MCU are being stretched WAY too thin at this point. And I HATE the fact that Marvel Studios has been relying SO much on cameos and A-list performers to please audiences in Phase Four. It's the kind of pandering we NEVER saw in Phases One through Three:

WandaVision: Marvel Fox cameo of Evan Peters
Falcon & The Winter Soldier: Post-credit debut of Julia Louis-Dreyfus
The Eternals: Post-credit debut of Harry Styles
Spider-Man: No Way Home: Appearances of Marvel Sony characters from previous Sony Spider-Men movies
Hawkeye: Marvel Netflix cameo of Vincent D'Onofrio
The Multiverse of Madness: Appearances from actors who were part of the Marvel ABC and Marvel Fox universes AND the post-credit debut of Charlize Theron

I'm getting tired of this lazy ****. But I think we're gonna see even MORE of this garbage in She-Hulk, Echo and Secret Invasion. Does Marvel Studios lack so much confidence nowadays that they can't tell stories without depending on these gimmicks? I was very happy for the employees of Disney and people working at theaters across the world when the MoM made a killing at the box office. But I don't think the top brasses at Marvel Studios and Disney should be rewarded for pulling this crap over and over again. At least the creators of Top Gun: Maverick and Everything Everywhere All at Once were OBVIOUSLY putting their hearts and souls into those projects with practically everything they had. I just don't feel that Marvel Studios is doing that anymore because I think they're starting to take their audiences for granted now and I think that's really shitty of them. I feel the exact same way about the James Bond. My Dad has been a lifelong follower of that franchise for decades and has watched every single James Bond movie (some of them repeatedly), but after watching No Time to Die, he said he was done with it. And I understand why. It was the first BORING James Bond movie we ever watched. Convoluted, meandering and listless. Words I would NEVER associate with Bond. I used to have such a good time watching Bond flicks, but No Time to Die just KILLED my interest in future instalments. MoM gave me the EXACT same vibes. Disney's REALLY gotta step up their game.

[Kingdom X]

And I HATE the fact that Marvel Studios has been relying SO much on cameos and A-list performers to please audiences in Phase Four. It's the kind of pandering we NEVER saw in Phases One through Three:

WandaVision: Marvel Fox cameo of Evan Peters
Falcon & The Winter Soldier: Post-credit debut of Julia Louis-Dreyfus
The Eternals: Post-credit debut of Harry Styles
Spider-Man: No Way Home: Appearances of Marvel Sony characters from previous Sony Spider-Men movies
Hawkeye: Marvel Netflix cameo of Vincent D'Onofrio
The Multiverse of Madness: Appearances from actors who were part of the Marvel ABC and Marvel Fox universes AND the post-credit debut of Charlize Theron

I'm getting tired of this lazy ****. But I think we're gonna see even MORE of this garbage in She-Hulk, Echo and Secret Invasion.

Yes, while some of these cameos (certainly the ones from other universes) are definitely something new, the MCU has always had some gimmicky aspects. I don't see how the Julia Louis-Dreyfus post-credits scene (or any of the other ones really) is any different than the post-credits scene that came before. Sure they can afford more A-list actors now but shoot that's how the MCU started to form as a cohesive universe. With an Sam Jackson (an A-lister) showing up after the movie was done to get people excited. And when it comes to cameos to pander did we all forget that MCU Spider-Man debuted in a random 20 minutes in Civil War for the SOLE purpose of setting up his own movie and so that they could advertise that the movie had Spider-Man in it.

Idk I feel like this whole "the MCU is collapsing" thing has been blown out of proportion and we're looking for any and all evidence to point towards that conclusion. We used to like it when there were cameos and surprise appearances in the MCU to show it's overall connectivity, but now it's a bad thing? For example, She-Hulk is going to have cameos but why wouldn't she? Do we want to see her solely involved in normal court cases that don't involve enhanced characters?

[MindofShadow]

I don't mind post credit cameo stuff.

The in-the-show/movie stuff is grating though.

and yes, I didn't like spider-man in CW.

Evan Peters is 100% the worst offender of this though. It literally existed to troll.

[Geraldofrivia]

I think when the marvels come out there are going to be some folks who did not watch the the show and go back to it later.
There are those who never watch the incredible hulk movie for example until he show up in the avengers movies later.

But a show has to be successful when it is released. Incredible Hulk is a poor example since it never got a sequel.

[Albert1981]

Yes, while some of these cameos (certainly the ones from other universes) are definitely something new, the MCU has always had some gimmicky aspects. I don't see how the Julia Louis-Dreyfus post-credits scene (or any of the other ones really) is any different than the post-credits scene that came before. Sure they can afford more A-list actors now but shoot that's how the MCU started to form as a cohesive universe. With an Sam Jackson (an A-lister) showing up after the movie was done to get people excited. And when it comes to cameos to pander did we all forget that MCU Spider-Man debuted in a random 20 minutes in Civil War for the SOLE purpose of setting up his own movie and so that they could advertise that the movie had Spider-Man in it.

Idk I feel like this whole "the MCU is collapsing" thing has been blown out of proportion and we're looking for any and all evidence to point towards that conclusion. We used to like it when there were cameos and surprise appearances in the MCU to show it's overall connectivity, but now it's a bad thing? For example, She-Hulk is going to have cameos but why wouldn't she? Do we want to see her solely involved in normal court cases that don't involve enhanced characters?

Perhaps I sounded a little more harsher than normal with my previous comments and I regret that. It's just that I finally saw the MoM yesterday, and I consider it to be EASILY the worst entry in the MCU in my opinion. I had my problems with the Eternals, but at least I felt it was a labor of love for Zhao and she was really passionate about that project (and she tried her best to make it as different and new as possible). Strange 2 was just dreck for the entire two hours and it added nothing to the MCU. Sam Jackson's post-credit appearance in Iron Man was easily the best best post-credit scene in MCU history. But it felt natural to me. Him surprising RDJ in his "palace" to talk about the Avengers Initiative intrigued people's interest. Julia Louis-Dreyfus's intro was fun, but it felt like a weaker imitation of the Jackson's to me. Clea's intro was the worst one in my opinion. Her appearance felt like a Hallmark movie to me. Strange's love of his life gets married to somebody else, and then while lonely Strange is trying to recover from that loss, a brand new woman walks into his life outta nowhere. CHEESY!

I could live with Parker's introduction in Civil War because Spider-Man is probably now the world's most famous comic book character. I feel Disney had to bring him in sooner or later and I think the Russos did a fairly job with his intro (Black Panther's intro was WAY better though). I agree with you about the cameos from "other universes". If She-Hulk brought in characters like Doc Sampson or Betty Ross, I would be thrilled. The Hulk "franchise" needs more love and I want it to get more attention. It's already too late for Thunderbolt Ross. There's just too much talk about DD and JJ possibly appearing in this series for my liking. I'm happy for the performers if they DO appear, but I never watched the Netflix stuff so it wouldn't be a comic book "boner moment" for me). The cameos in NWH made sense and Disney/Sony to their credit made them work brilliantly in my opinion. I wasn't thrilled about the Murdock one because that movie just completely dispensed with the the loss of Spider-Man's secret identity in favor of multiversal shenanigans and it would have been cool seeing Matt defend Peter in court. THAT would have been a natural follow-up to Far from Home. Now it's too late to do that kind of film.

I don't think the MCU is collapsing. Box office numbers certainly wouldn't indicate that at all. But it's clearly not as big a part of the cultural zeitgeist as it was even a few months ago. Whatever people's feelings about WandaVision and NWH, they were big successes for Disney/Marvel last year and cemented the MCU's place as top dog in Hollywood in 2021. But I don't feel the same way about the MCU at the moment. I think we know which film is DOMINATING the box office and cultural discussions right now. Hint: It's not the Multiverse of Madness. I think Disney was getting cocky, talking about how their Marvel movies were gonna "save cinema" in the wake of the pandemic, but since they got their asses fucking kicked by TGM, Marvel Studios execs have gone completely silent. I thought Strange 2 was one of the laziest efforts put forward by the MCU ever, and I think Marvel Studios should change course quickly in order to regain the goodwill of fans that they have disappointed in Phase Four. It's not too late!