Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Force de Phenix]

That’s actually not the feeling I left the theater with at all. If anything I was like… they could have split this up into two movies to do both Gorr and Jane justice. I didn’t leave the theater tired of Thor and found myself thinking that both Iron Man and Cap could have probably rocked 4th movies. My main problems with the film are that it couldn’t commit to a plot or a tone.

The problem with the MCU is that comedy help boost the public's attention and they mixed it with big action scenes to make big Hollywood blockbusters, but the comics have more serious stories sometimes, but they can't go back to a Thor 1 tone when people were already sold on the Thor 3 tone. So there's a hodgepodge of comedy with what should've been a somewhat "serious" story. Two "serious" stories. I mean The Batman movie type of serious, not something dreary. I remember reading somewhere that the creator of Mantis wasn't ecstatic that they dumbed her down so much just to be a joke.

Well, anyway, it sells, and makes them money. They might make the next Eternals a comedy to make up for the first one's box office. It had funny moments, but it wasn't Guardians of the Galaxy 2 funny. That was unbearable.

[MindofShadow]

I don't think a phase have an overarching end point really means much for the movies. They've always been mostly disconnected with just minor things tying them together or pointing to the next movie.

But from a pure money making standpoint... I still don't know why the MCU is letting phase 4 feel so random and disjointed. I mean, does it actually feel like Eternals was even part of the MCU? Is that Celestial still chillin lol?

MCU was known for the "shared universe" and "forward planning" type stuff and this phase just feels random. There is no Avengers team up seemingly coming... they are maybe teasing Thunderbolts but... that is a DEEP CUT lol. I didn't even know who the seinfield actor was playing and I read comics. Compare that ti SAMUAL JACKSON name droppng Avengers. It just doesn't hit the same.

And the post credit scenes just feel... pointless. aka they lost their magic. Teasing something for a sequel that is 4 years away ain't it lol.

Like I said, I don't think it matters for hte actual movies... the movies just need tightened up. Cleaner scripts, better CGI, focus on he main character of the story.

[gurkle]

The thing is that while I don't think the MCU had that much of a coherent plan (and almost every movie is mostly a self-contained story) they used to feel less fragmented because they were a smaller franchise and to the extent there was a "big story" it was just building up to the formation of the Avengers, and then, once the Avengers were formed, to Thanos collecting all the magic rocks. A movie could have some reference to the Avengers or the magic rocks and boom, it was part of the plan.

Now Feige is putting out more "canonical" MCU product than ever and they don't have anything as simple to build up to, because the Avengers no longer technically exist and the concept of "incursions" is nowhere near as simple to explain as "magic rock that has its own color and power."

It wouldn't matter so much if the quality were consistent, but with Feige spreading himself too thin and the last two movies having very obvious script problems... though I do wonder if part of that is an effect of the movies being rewritten during the pandemic lockdown, a very tense situation when people didn't even know if theatrical movies would even survive.

[Force de Phenix]

I thought it was obvious that he's populating the landscape and explaining what alternate universes are ad nauseam (Loki, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness), and showing us that other properties are canon because it's all building up to Secret Wars. I mean, they're all going to meet to save the Earth from the incursions and they're going to mix like the Secret Wars comic event.

Like the Illuminati showing up means that these beings exist somewhere in every universe since America Chavez is the Molecule Man of the MCU, i.e. there's only one America Chavez. It took around 10 years to build up to Infinity War, so we've got a way to go until we get to the next big team up. They made the Infinity Saga halfway through it. I don't think they're doing all of this because it isn't building up to something. They could technically start in 2 years and begin tying everything together, but the incursions and the omnipresence of different enhanced people is building up to Secret Wars.

[Albert1981]

If Namor is indeed in Black Panther 2, it will get more attention (more than it already has). I think at this point origin movies and solo movies are harder to sit through because the MCU has mixed characters so well that it feels unnecessary to have just one "main" character. I remember Feige saying something along the lines of "Disney Plus will introduce characters and they'll meet in the movies." The Eternals was impossible to do on Disney Plus.

I liked Wanda in MoM and that they did things that you wouldn't be able to get from a show at home, and I think Black Panther, Ant-Man, and The Marvels will hopefully do that. We'll see how well Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk & Moon Knight segue into the big screen stories. Hopefully they have more synergy than WandaVision, but the difference is that Wanda was an established character and that show wasn't an origin story per se, although it showed us the origin of her true power so they didn't have to waste time in a movie doing it.

One if the best "solo" movies was Civil War. I think Minions is blowing everyone out of the water, but for its reasons. I want SJ's Nick Fury with the Agents of Shield. They're already bringing in Daredevil for Echo apparently. The more they add characters we dedicated time watching for years, the better.

Yeah, Namor is definitely a Marvel Comics "A-lister". I had no idea he was rumored to be in BP2 though. I guess that film is gonna spend some time explaining what the hell Atlantis is. I think two main "heroes" per movie is fine. Anything more and things get crowded. You're right about Wanda though. Characters like Fury and Rhodey going between shows and films is easier for moviegoers to digest because they debuted on the big screen. I have to admit I'm very sad Thor 4 is not being received well. I used to be part of an online Natalie Portman fan club years ago, and I was always disappointed she "missed out" on the MCU's golden years. I thought that Jane Foster's cancer storyline could have been the MCU's answer to the NeverEnding Story and would have been really emotionally powerful if done right. I know Portman's fully capable of giving a great performance. I'm sorry to hear that that didn't happen.

My problem with adding on the Marvel ABC and Marvel Netflix content is that I didn't watch them. And I'm too lazy to do so now. Marvel Studios is already giving me too much "homework" as it is. And I don't like Phase Four's emphasis on random character appearances and celebrity cameos to bolster interest in their latest properties. I'm okay with Daredevil and Kingpin having prominent roles in Echo's show because apparently the three of them are closely tied together in the comic books. And it will put less pressure on that actress playing Echo. However, I'm not as okay with Marvel Netflix characters showing up in She-Hulk. The "Hulk franchise" has got plenty of characters that could be used in that series and some have already appeared in the MCU earlier (Doc Samson, Betty Ross and Samuel Sterns). But I feel Marvel Studios wants to cynically capitalize on Netflix DD's popularity to boost viewership numbers for She-Hulk and I'm not a big fan of that.

[Derek Metaltron]

My predictions for SDCC Marvel Studios Panel (I won't mention much with animation because that's a seperate panel and some stuff has already been teased):

- First Full Trailer for Black Panther: Wakanda Forever PLUS announcements of Wakanda projects for Disney Plus (World of Wakanda live action series with Okoye and T'Chaka 80's/90's set animated series)
- Teaser Trailer for Ant Man and Wasp: Quantumania!
- First looks at Guardians 3 and The Marvels
- Dates for 2023/24 Disney Plus Marvel Shows
- Ironheart, Armor Wars, Loki Season 2, Echo and Agatha: House of Harkness First Looks
- Wonder and Vision and Hercules projects leading to West Coast Avengers mini series with Kate Bishop and Tigra
- Daredevil Relaunch
- Doctor Doom Origin Mini Series on Disney+ alongside Fantastic Four Film and Doom actor reveal
- Deadpool 3 confirmed as Disney Plus Exclusive movie
- Young Avengers movie with Spider-Man as leader and introducing Miles Morales
- Fantastic Four Full Cast reveal
- Blade, Captain America 4, Nova and Thunderbolts projects revealed properly
- Phase 4/5 teases with Spider-Man 4, X-Men, Galactus and Secret Wars
- Initial X-Men cast reveal? (Probably unlikely)
- Namor spin off project?
- Sif or New Asgard project?

[gurkle]

I thought it was obvious that he's populating the landscape and explaining what alternate universes are ad nauseam (Loki, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness), and showing us that other properties are canon because it's all building up to Secret Wars. I mean, they're all going to meet to save the Earth from the incursions and they're going to mix like the Secret Wars comic event.

Yes, that's clearly the big event, I just don't think it's the kind of buildup that's as easy to spot as the buildup to the Avengers or the buildup with the Infinity Stones.

I'm biased because I ddin't like Hickman's Avengers run and the whole concept of the incursions in particular was something I didn't find interesting. So I may just be projecting my own lack of interest onto the public at large.

[Force de Phenix]

Yeah, Namor is definitely a Marvel Comics "A-lister". I had no idea he was rumored to be in BP2 though. I guess that film is gonna spend some time explaining what the hell Atlantis is. I think two main "heroes" per movie is fine. Anything more and things get crowded. You're right about Wanda though. Characters like Fury and Rhodey going between shows and films is easier for moviegoers to digest because they debuted on the big screen. I have to admit I'm very sad Thor 4 is not being received well. I used to be part of an online Natalie Portman fan club years ago, and I was always disappointed she "missed out" on the MCU's golden years. I thought that Jane Foster's cancer storyline could have been the MCU's answer to the NeverEnding Story and would have been really emotionally powerful if done right. I know Portman's fully capable of giving a great performance. I'm sorry to hear that that didn't happen.

My problem with adding on the Marvel ABC and Marvel Netflix content is that I didn't watch them. And I'm too lazy to do so now. Marvel Studios is already giving me too much "homework" as it is. And I don't like Phase Four's emphasis on random character appearances and celebrity cameos to bolster interest in their latest properties. I'm okay with Daredevil and Kingpin having prominent roles in Echo's show because apparently the three of them are closely tied together in the comic books. And it will put less pressure on that actress playing Echo. However, I'm not as okay with Marvel Netflix characters showing up in She-Hulk. The "Hulk franchise" has got plenty of characters that could be used in that series and some have already appeared in the MCU earlier (Doc Samson, Betty Ross and Samuel Sterns). But I feel Marvel Studios wants to cynically capitalize on Netflix DD's popularity to boost viewership numbers for She-Hulk and I'm not a big fan of that.

They had a lot of violence and sex on the Netflix shows, and it was done pretty decent. Jessica Jones was one of my favorite shows. I just hated that they didn't have enough money for her to fly, so she would "hop" really high off screen. They are very character oriented, so we really got close to them and we didn't expect them to appear in the MCU because they couldn't because Marvel TV wasn't mixing with Disney's MCU in appearances. They just had Nick Fury, Sif, Coulson, and Peggy Carter on Agents of Shield.

I don't think it's so much of capitalizing on DD popularity as much as it is people wanting to know where Daredevil is now in the world and what happened to him. The same goes for everyone else. After watching the She-Hulk trailer, I got Daredevil and Jessica Jones vibes, but I doubt they're going to touch on rape and sex. The only thing I'd watch, and not because it's very good, is The Defenders because it's when they all meet up. It was a downer because the villains didn't raise the stakes high enough.

As probably one of the few fans of Star Wars Episode III, I loved Natalie Portman in sci-fi, so I hope she appears again. I don't get mixing two important stories for a movie, especially since there's probably going to be another Thor movie. They should've waited for Gorr. They explained Wakanda in an intro that was like 2 minutes or something, so I'm sure it's going to be easy to explain Atlantis, especially since people have watched Aquaman and the Little Mermaid.

[Force de Phenix]

Yes, that's clearly the big event, I just don't think it's the kind of buildup that's as easy to spot as the buildup to the Avengers or the buildup with the Infinity Stones.

I'm biased because I ddin't like Hickman's Avengers run and the whole concept of the incursions in particular was something I didn't find interesting. So I may just be projecting my own lack of interest onto the public at large.

They're probably going to mix it with the classic Secret Wars and something else, so it might not be 100% like Hickman's run. He said he was going to reveal something soon so we get a clearer picture of what to expect, probably because many people have commented on the lack of end credits that tell us who's bad like all those Thanos end credit scenes. And the movies had the Infinity Gems, so it was easy to see the correlation.

If it is Secret Wars, they probably have to have an Illuminati that represents each of the species/groups they are introducing, which might not be the ones in the Multiverse of Madness.

[Frontier]

Maybe we'll get a better sense of where things are going with Phase 5, I just hope they improve on the scripting issues because I don't think Wakanda Forever is going to be an exception.

[Darkshadow]

I'm not going to read all the pontificating here.

I just came to say Thor: Love and Thunder was one of the most fun movies I've ever seen.

[Colossus1980]

I thought it was obvious that he's populating the landscape and explaining what alternate universes are ad nauseam (Loki, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness), and showing us that other properties are canon because it's all building up to Secret Wars. I mean, they're all going to meet to save the Earth from the incursions and they're going to mix like the Secret Wars comic event.

I know it's still maybe 10 years in the future but will the MCU be able to create enough new characters to draw in the audience for Secret Wars? By then everyone from Endgame will most likely be gone and who will be left of the MCU for a Secret Wars event? The Eternals(movie bombed)? The FF? The X-Men? Thunderbolts? Young Avengers? The New Avengers? Blade? Shang-Chi? Lots of new characters down the future but I don't think they will be as popular especially the ones created from the TV shows.

[gurkle]

If they can't create enough new stars (and they've always been able to) they can always drive a dump truck full of money up to Downey and Johansson's houses and bring them back to life ("Oh, actually it's a variant who had the exact same life except they didn't die young").

[skyvolt2000]

I know it's still maybe 10 years in the future but will the MCU be able to create enough new characters to draw in the audience for Secret Wars? By then everyone from Endgame will most likely be gone and who will be left of the MCU for a Secret Wars event? The Eternals(movie bombed)? The FF? The X-Men? Thunderbolts? Young Avengers? The New Avengers? Blade? Shang-Chi? Lots of new characters down the future but I don't think they will be as popular especially the ones created from the TV shows.

You don't need to if you use who you already have roaming around.

Define popular? Are talking popular by entitled comic book fans who threw fits about 90% of the folks Marvel has invested in.

Are we talking popular in terms of the normal public who could careless that entitled comic book fans hate the fact folks like Panther and Carol held their own in box office as Thor and others.

Who says Iron man or Cap America can't show up if we are doing the multi-verse? How many versions of those guys do we already have that we don't need to make a new one? Ultimate Marvel takes care of most of them and Miles Morales (despite the Peter fans praying he NEVER shows up live action).

1-3 Ultimate Marvel films takes care of them before Secret Wars.

[Frontier]

If they can't create enough new stars (and they've always been able to) they can always drive a dump truck full of money up to Downey and Johansson's houses and bring them back to life ("Oh, actually it's a variant who had the exact same life except they didn't die young").

I wonder if they have a cap limit for characters to introduce because between the Disney+ shows, the FF, and all the Young Avengers build up they keep throwing in there...will there be any room for the X-Men?