Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[John Venus]

Ms Marvel also targeted at teenage girls so that's also a factor in it not doing the usual MCU numbers.

I'm not too worried about the Ms Marvel not doing gangbusters. Hopefully, Fiege and co aren't either. I hope Bob Chapek doesn't start cutting budget because he thinks the projects should have made even more money.

[80sbaby]

Considering most of the complaints are about the plotting and villains, not the main/supporting cast, I think Ms. Marvel franchise will be ok.

[Force de Phenix]

Considering most of the complaints are about the plotting and villains, not the main/supporting cast, I think Ms. Marvel franchise will be ok.

Disney is just making characters to sell merchandise & appear in rides in Disney World. This is why people criticize the quality of these Marvel shows. The quality of Agents of Shield and most of the Netflix series and even The Runaways was better in the actual storytelling. Fox's X-Men at least gave us Logan, Legion and Deadpool.

Marvel's competition is The Boys and they're blowing these Disney Plus shows out of the water. We're just in it for the IP's at this point as opposed to the stories, i.e. the plot and antagonists as you stated.

[Maestro 216]

Disney is just making characters to sell merchandise & appear in rides in Disney World. This is why people criticize the quality of these Marvel shows. The quality of Agents of Shield and most of the Netflix series and even The Runaways was better in the actual storytelling. Fox's X-Men at least gave us Logan, Legion and Deadpool.

Marvel's competition is The Boys and they're blowing these Disney Plus shows out of the water. We're just in it for the IP's at this point as opposed to the stories, i.e. the plot and antagonists as you stated.

DC isn't out of things yet. Black Adam looks promising.

[Frontier]

Considering most of the complaints are about the plotting and villains, not the main/supporting cast, I think Ms. Marvel franchise will be ok.

I think one of the issues was not spending enough time on the supporting cast and maybe throwing a little too much into the story.

But I'm not sure how much they plan out season 2's for these shows other than Loki.

[MindofShadow]

Disney is just making characters to sell merchandise & appear in rides in Disney World. This is why people criticize the quality of these Marvel shows. The quality of Agents of Shield and most of the Netflix series and even The Runaways was better in the actual storytelling. Fox's X-Men at least gave us Logan, Legion and Deadpool.

Marvel's competition is The Boys and they're blowing these Disney Plus shows out of the water. We're just in it for the IP's at this point as opposed to the stories, i.e. the plot and antagonists as you stated.

The Boys is not Marvels competition at all.

DC isn't out of things yet. Black Adam looks promising.

It looks about as generic as you can get with the most famous generic actor out there lol

I think one of the issues was not spending enough time on the supporting cast and maybe throwing a little too much into the story.

But I'm not sure how much they plan out season 2's for these shows other than Loki.

Yeah I can't tell on this part either how far they are planning ahead.

Naturally, MK, Hawkeye, Loki ended in a way that seems to imply squeals or spin offs. Even Falcon show but that is a movie instead.

[Gnostic]

I posted this on another thread:

Marvel Studios released in-universe book a few years back called the Wakanda Files. It stated that HYDRA discovered that the people of Sokovia had "genetic abnormalities" that made them perfect test subjects for the mind stone. Obviously, it was suggesting that the Maximoff twins were mutants that had their powers unlock by the stone. That suggests HYDRA knew about the X-gene and that an infinity stone can unlock superpowers. So they had to have made contact with mutants back in WW2 when they had the space stone.

Ms. Marvel also needs to be exposed to the cosmic energy of the bangle to use her powers. So that begs the question: why do 616 MCU mutants need "extra steps" to have their powers activated like being exposed to cosmic energy? Why don't they just activate naturally when they hit puberty like in the X-Men movies? Writer Michael Waldron confirmed that series was canon to the MCU multiverse.

There is a cool theory that involves HYDRA and Mr. Sinister on Reddit. I think it would make perfect sense given the points that were raised.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MCUTheories...ne_in_the_616/

[Omega Alpha]

Ms Marvel also targeted at teenage girls so that's also a factor in it not doing the usual MCU numbers.

I'm not too worried about the Ms Marvel not doing gangbusters. Hopefully, Fiege and co aren't either. I hope Bob Chapek doesn't start cutting budget because he thinks the projects should have made even more money.

Yes, MK and Ms. Marvel didn't have a built in audience, unlike the previous series, they were never going to make the same numbers as something like WV or Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[gurkle]

One of the most common complaints I've heard about the MCU streaming shows, though maybe that's only my circle, is that they feel like movies padded out to six hours and don't have a convincing reason to be a TV show.

In some ways "WandaVision" was a false promise because it really was made for the TV format, with each episode having its own specific style (except for the finale).

Hopefully "She-Hulk" will have some "case of the week" episodes (but I hoped the same thing for "Jessica Jones").

[Ascended]

Random observation and probably not a clever one, but during a lull at work today I was considering the less-than-stellar reviews the MCU has been getting lately, and what happened to cause it.

And I've come to the conclusion that phase 4 isn't actually a "real" decline in the MCU's average quality. But three things happened. And note, I'm not defending the MCU so much as considering whether they've changed less than we have, and if their changes weren't ones we, the audience, easily or willingly shifted with but didn't actually impact the quality itself.

First; with Thanos dealt with, we've returned to the slow build-up of a new mega-threat; we're still in the "setting the stage" phase of that, and the last time we were here was way back in phase 2. Right now is like when we were still discovering and learning about the Stones, finding a new one or learning some minor tidbit about them every other movie. We're learning about the multiverse now, we've (sorta) met the next Big Bad, but the whole affair is still vague while still feeling like deja vu, or a step backwards. It's a far cry from the final years of the Infinity Saga where the pieces were (almost) all in place.

Secondly, Marvel isn't making each project appeal to the typical audience, some of these projects are more niche and won't appeal to everybody like the typical MCU fare used to. Up to now, we comic nerds were always the very core of the target audience (in that what we always saw in these characters is what the films tried to capture, and thus we were sorta taken for granted). Marvel might dip a toe in a subgenre, but only a toe. Now we got stuff leaning more heavily in other genres, in horror, and YA, and friggin holiday specials. Different fan demographics us comic nerds might not be a part of, or might enjoy less. Like, if you hate Die Hard you're not gonna like Hawkeye. But if you liked Iron Man 1, then Ant-Man 1 and Strange 1 were probably checking the right boxes too (the details might've been more or less appealing, but the formula is largely all the same).

Thirdly, the Russo brothers left such an impression that our expectations have risen beyond what they realistically should be. We all have our quibbles with the Russo films (I'm particularly unforgiving of Civil War), but the Russo's are easily among the best film makers Marvel has hired. Maybe not everyone's favorite, but their talent and ability can't really be argued too far. They also knocked out Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame almost back-to-back. That's a lot in a fairly short time, and maybe we've sorta forgotten that a lot of MCU solo films, especially origins (which is what most of phase 4 has been), have been rather bland and repetitive. Tell me, who's origin movie was it where the charming asshat hero uses a crazy new power to defeat a former ally and friend?

That's not to say that phase 4 is perfect. It sure as hell isn't. There's many criticisms that are utterly valid and true and Marvel should be beat over the head with them. And nobody needs to justify their enjoyment (or lack thereof) in any of this. There's plenty in phase 4 so far that I've never revisited and aren't likely to. But the MCU never was perfect. Hell it was rarely even "great" and mostly just "fun." They were always just empty popcorn flicks. The villains were (almost) always weak, one-dimensional characters who served only to provide an external threat to match the hero's inner/personal conflict. They were always introducing tons of new characters faster than they could actually develop and showcase them (how many *years* did it take to learn *anything* about Sam or Wanda?). They were (almost) always derailing their third Acts with needless spectacle and big cgi fights.

I think the MCU wasn't as good as our memories of the Infinity Saga tell us it was.

[mace11]

I was going post this awhile ago but check this anyway.
Is Marvel Studios FAILING With Phase 4 & the MCU?!


The Cosmic Wonder

Is Marvel Studios hitting or missing with phase 4? We have movies like Shang Chi and Thor Love and Thunder that are big hits and then movies like the Eternals and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness that fans are divided on. Do you think Marvel is doing a good job with the Marvel Cinematic Universe MCU in phase 4 so far?

[MindofShadow]

One of the most common complaints I've heard about the MCU streaming shows, though maybe that's only my circle, is that they feel like movies padded out to six hours and don't have a convincing reason to be a TV show.

In some ways "WandaVision" was a false promise because it really was made for the TV format, with each episode having its own specific style (except for the finale).

Hopefully "She-Hulk" will have some "case of the week" episodes (but I hoped the same thing for "Jessica Jones").

... I think that is fair.

Obi show was the same way.

Contrast to say... Mando where each episode is "something" for the most part (typically a fetch quest, but whatever). You can pull up a random Mando episode and a lot of times, there is a beginning, middle, end to that episode... with something lingering in the background ot push the plot.

I'm not sure which style is better... I just think you have to make the padding interesting.

Netflix shows had the same problem because they were padding SO MUCH due to 12? episodes.

But 6 episodes should be padding free or really good padding. You should never be bored.

[Kingdom X]

... I think that is fair.

Obi show was the same way.

Contrast to say... Mando where each episode is "something" for the most part (typically a fetch quest, but whatever). You can pull up a random Mando episode and a lot of times, there is a beginning, middle, end to that episode... with something lingering in the background ot push the plot.

I'm not sure which style is better... I just think you have to make the padding interesting.

Netflix shows had the same problem because they were padding SO MUCH due to 12? episodes.

But 6 episodes should be padding free or really good padding. You should never be bored.

I think it really depends on both the tone of the character/ show AND the quality. For example I think Moon Knight is the type of character that has the gravitas to really carry a 6 hour film, HOWEVER the quality of each of the episodes (regarding CGI, writing, etc.) was really giving TV show.

I think a smaller scale and more lighthearted character like Ms. Marvel definitely lends herself towards the TV format, because there isn’t this expectation that the show will be build to some epic conclusion. Similarly She-Hulk can also definitely find success in the “case of the week department”.

I think the problem is that Marvel keeps on mixing the two up and trying to turn the story better for a TV format into mini-films in the last two episodes and turning the content that should clearly be films into padded TV shows with side-adventures.

[mace11]

Marvel Studios Full 2023 TV Series Lineup Revealed

[MindofShadow]

I still don't know why Echo is getting a series tbh. I am assuming it is a stealth DD set up?

But, then again, if Agatha can get a series based on a short song, anyone can lol


I'll be real curious how far they push Secret Invasion... if this is something big like the comics or if it is a small time thing. I'll be intrigued by it.. could be really good