Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[MindofShadow]

I have a hard time grasping the narrative the Thor 4 is a box office disappointment when its going to pass Thor 3 in domestic box office this weekend.

This is completely ignoring the insane inflation rate since 2017 though.

Thor3 in today money is 380million, (instead of 315)

and sequels are supposed to earn more as they build off the hype of the previous movie.

and after NWH and DS2, it isn't what was expected.

disappointing =/= bad. it can still make "good money" and be a disappointment. Disney was disappointed by AoU and it made over a billion

[Frontier]

I haven't actually watched Love and Thunder yet but I watched a FX promo and...

spoilers:

They really had Thor empower a bunch of kids with his powers and axes and let them fight off a bunch of monsters, no problem? In a Gorr the God Butcher story? Like anyone who reads Jane's run or Gorr's story and their main takeaway was "man, this needs more kids! And kids with superpowers!" I know the MCU tries to come off all ages but that's probably the most "kid movie" thing I have ever seen in an MCU movie. Well, aside from Kamala and her supporting cast going Home Alone on a swat team.

end of spoilers

[Colossus1980]

I have a hard time grasping the narrative the Thor 4 is a box office disappointment when its going to pass Thor 3 in domestic box office this weekend.

These are definitely different times but Thor 4 cost like 250M whereas Thor was 180, so box office expectation should be much higher. However Thor 4 was a critical disappointment so it's hard to expect a bigger box office. The director dropped the ball by having way too many jokes. Love and Thunder is on a par critically with Dark World. What did people expect?

[inisideguy]

This is completely ignoring the insane inflation rate since 2017 though.

Thor3 in today money is 380million, (instead of 315)

and sequels are supposed to earn more as they build off the hype of the previous movie.

and after NWH and DS2, it isn't what was expected.

disappointing =/= bad. it can still make "good money" and be a disappointment. Disney was disappointed by AoU and it made over a billion

No. Just wrong. The numbers has Thor 3 at 322 million adjusted for inflation. Its right there if you want to check the site. Box office mojo also has numbers of tickets sold after the fact. If you think inflation for movies has increased that much that 315 in 2017 is 380 million today you don't know what you are talking about or you are getting your numbers from a garbage site. This sequels are suppose to build off the first movie and make more is nice, but this is the fourth movie. Many sequels such as dead pool 2 and the empire strikes back which were successful didn't make as much as the first movie. What people are attempting to do is make yardsticks for Marvel movies where they can say they are failures. And its all just nonsense. Its actually tiresome. People on here trying to claim this and MOM and whatever else are box office disappointments don't know what they are talking about or have an agenda.

[Galerion]

I haven't actually watched Love and Thunder yet but I watched a FX promo and...

spoilers:

They really had Thor empower a bunch of kids with his powers and axes and let them fight off a bunch of monsters, no problem? In a Gorr the God Butcher story? Like anyone who reads Jane's run or Gorr's story and their main takeaway was "man, this needs more kids! And kids with superpowers!" I know the MCU tries to come off all ages but that's probably the most "kid movie" thing I have ever seen in an MCU movie. Well, aside from Kamala and her supporting cast going Home Alone on a swat team.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I really hated that. It really damaged Gorrs image as this super powerful villain even more then it already was considering we didn't get to see any god butchering. These monsters were apparently strong enough to overwhelm the gods forces from many worlds and now a bunch of small pre-teen kids who wield random trash and teddy bears are beating them easily.

end of spoilers

[Tofali]

I haven't actually watched Love and Thunder yet but I watched a FX promo and...

spoilers:

They really had Thor empower a bunch of kids with his powers and axes and let them fight off a bunch of monsters, no problem? In a Gorr the God Butcher story? Like anyone who reads Jane's run or Gorr's story and their main takeaway was "man, this needs more kids! And kids with superpowers!" I know the MCU tries to come off all ages but that's probably the most "kid movie" thing I have ever seen in an MCU movie. Well, aside from Kamala and her supporting cast going Home Alone on a swat team.

end of spoilers

I didn't mind that sequence even though I found it entirely silly but I knew a lot of kids would find it very empowering if only the movie wasn't a disappointment. The movie was just too indulgent and silly. Honestly I re-watched Ragnarok numerous times this phase the theme I keep repeating is the movies aren't as re-watchable as other movies in other phases.

[Frontier]

I didn't mind that sequence even though I found it entirely silly but I knew a lot of kids would find it very empowering if only the movie wasn't a disappointment. The movie was just too indulgent and silly. Honestly I re-watched Ragnarok numerous times this phase the theme I keep repeating is the movies aren't as re-watchable as other movies in other phases.

I think in a certain context it would've been fine but not within the story they were adapting and not in a movie as tonally dissonant as it sounds like LaT is.

[Tofali]

Yep, that kind of sequence would have been better served in the second act not the 3rd act/conclusion where I'm supposed to be afraid that something might happen to the kids, Jane or Thor. I completely stopped caring after that, I was like whatever I couldn't wait for it to finish because I wanted to go home.

[Ascended]

It seems like the go-to fix for Marvel Studios is to just inject more humor and action, although I wouldn't really want to see that.

It seems like audiences are starting to get tired of the constant quips.

I dunno if that's the case, since some of the most successful projects this phase have been on the quippy side. But something isn't connecting the way it did pre-Endgame. Maybe it's that not every project is made for the usual audience now, and some of this stuff is targeted at specific demo's and genres. Maybe Marvel's reputation has grown too big for the actual product and people will never be satisfied. Maybe they're letting the directors have too much leeway and something is getting left out of the recipe. Maybe the MCU hasn't changed enough, or too much, or maybe it has nothing to do with Marvel at all and we're what is different now, post-2020. I'm sure someone somewhere is doing all kinds of sociological research about it.

I haven't actually watched Love and Thunder yet but I watched a FX promo and...

It's no worse than any of the other tonal dissonances in the film, honestly. And MCU Gorr is a pale shadow of the comic version. Bale gave a really good performance, but Gorr is only marginally more scary than Malekith was.

Watched the film with my kids, and my daughter loved the scene in question. That pretty much won me over. That, and it's a weird, left field asspull move by Thor that I've decided to internalize not as bad/weird writing but as him using the Odinforce, which should have transferred to him after Hela died. I don't think the MCU has ever said anything about the Odinforce moving through the royal line, but that's how I'm looking at it.

There's also some stuff in the mix, narrative parallels and complimentary structures and plot points and such, but that's worth a lot less than the raw entertainment value, so who cares?

[CTTT]

https://www.cbr.com/she-hulk-echo-da...l-disney-plus/

I think this article is complete horse manure but that's just me. I remember hearing that CC was going to be in She-Hulk but thought that it would be in one or maybe two episodes. I think the show is going to be good. As far as the quippy humor I think we can blame RDJ for that. He came in from the get go playing Tony as this fast talking quippy guy and I guess that's where the MCU blueprint was born. I don't have a problem with the humor personally and I think there's enough good serious moments in the MCU. I'm sick of hearing the chatter and I see it on here and youtube. I'm paraphrasing here but it's like the consensus is "I DROPPED THE MCU AFTER ENDGAME/THE MCU HAS SUCKED SINCE ENDGAME/THE MCU SHOWS REALLY SUCK". Just take a breath stay calm. I'm sure we'll get back to some of those heart tugging tear jerking moments that we had in Endgame. It's just going to take some time. I've enjoyed what I've seen so far personally. I do think it's kinda funny how DCEU detractors say "it's too serious, needs to be more lighthearted" while some MCU fans say the pendulum needs to swing in the other direction.

[mace11]

For doctor strange 2 maybe it expected to make billion because of china and russia,but without them i don't think it was expected to a make billion.
I think the RT critic scores played a part on why more folks did not go to see it as well.
If the critics like it more then more folks would have seen it and more folks would have see eternals too.

It has really high/really great rt audiences scores however but it has a B+ cineamscore,so on average it was not enjoyable enough to get into the A'S but there are varied reasons for that(horror,more camoes expected because of youtube channels thinking who whould show up etc.).

So that's were word of mouth comes it play as well has the RT critics scores and not just the audience scores alone.

[mace11]

I posted this before below and i posted some new views overtime to go with it.

Folks who are saying phase 4 is not as good as past phases are a loud minority(on the internet for example) and what they say do not match up with what the scores are on rt for example. In real life most audience think phase 4 is the best phase(tv and movies)looking at the RT SCORES and most critics think phase 3 is best phase so far then phase 4(combination tv shows and movies)is the next best phase LOOKING AT THE RT SCORES.

New/added views.

To make clear iron man was the start of phase 1 and WandaVision was the start for phase 4.
Now iron man was like more then wandvision but WandaVisionhad stronger average ratings.
So critics and audiences thought phase 4 started out stronger then phase 1.
Anyway phase 4 is view to be stronger then phase 1 and on average from both critics and audiences.

It's still not over.
It has shows like she-hulk,i am groot and and that were wolf show.
I think all these will be good but how good will is another question.
All of these will further change how we see phase 4 in the end since it's closing much faster then we thought.

MCU phase 4 has been going back and forth with comedy and serious films.
Anyway most of phase 4 has not been mostly comedy.

Doctor strange 2,eternals,spiderman home coming,black widow etc.. are serious films with some humor.
Now some have more humor then others.

Most of the phase 4 shows are serious.(i think all of them) It's the dceu currently that has been most comedy.
Heck the first dceu show peacemake is action comedy.

Phase 4 has been more darker and more serious then the current dceu.
Now she-hulk will a be action comedy and black panther 2 will not be a comedy for example.

[mace11]

Marvel’s Phase 4 is all about “guilt and consequences”

We’re currently deep into Phase 4 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the first phase to bring us a slate of Disney+ TV shows on top of the usual blockbuster movies. That’s a lot of superheroes. With so much going on, it can be tough to define the unifying theme of Phase 4, but at least one producer thinks they have it.

Throughout Phase 4, the franchise has branched out in several different directions. The vast multiverse has been explored in projects like Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, What If…?, Loki, and Spider-Man: No Way Home. And we’ve seen a variety of new genres, most notably horror, as seen in Doctor Strange 2 and Moon Knight.

But what’s the unifying thread? Production and development executive Richie Palmer thinks it’s all about “guilt and consequences” in the wake of the epic Infinity Saga. “Cause Phase 4 is all a reaction – and I don’t mean on our part as filmmakers, I mean the characters – it’s a reaction to the trauma of Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame. We’re still feeling those effects in these movies years later,” he said on Empire’s Spoiler Special podcast.

Whether it’s Spider-Man or the Scarlet Witch or Black Widow after Civil War, this phase does feel like it’s about our heroes coming into their own, on their own, all figuring out their places in the world, and a lot of them are lonely now because of the losses suffered during those Avengers movies.

Wanda Maximoff is leading the charge into Marvel’s Phase 4


Perhaps the best example of this is Wanda’s arc. The writers worked very closely with Olsen to develop her character. Wanda loses her family in WandaVision and the trauma leads her to ultimately become the Scarlet Witch. “It’s also something we spoke to Elizabeth Olsen about every step of the way, that for her, Wanda’s full journey is leading to a moment of accountability. And we think she’s gotten there.”

It’s fair to say that Kevin Feige and the team at Marvel have done a great job at reinventing the franchise in Phase 4. But considering that they are already planning out projects for the next decade, how long can they continue to strike the right chords? Things don’t look like they’re slowing down anytime soon.

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/07/1...me-of-phase-4/

[Colossus1980]

For doctor strange 2 maybe it expected to make billion because of china and russia,but without them i don't think it was expected to a make billion.
I think the RT critic scores played a part on why more folks did not go to see it as well.
If the critics like it more then more folks would have seen it and more folks would have see eternals too.

It has really high/really great rt audiences scores however but it has a B+ cineamscore,so on average it was not enjoyable enough to get into the A'S but there are varied reasons for that(horror,more camoes expected because of youtube channels thinking who whould show up etc.).

So that's were word of mouth comes it play as well has the RT critics scores and not just the audience scores alone.

Definitely WOM hurt the box office. But I also thought it was too gory for young kids. I'm sure quite a few parents skipped taking them to this movie due to the content. Still pretty good box office despite the limitations(like going on Disney+ in 6 weeks).

[mace11]

Box Office: ‘Top Gun 2’ Passes $1.35 Billion As ‘Thor 4’ Tops ‘Thor 3’

Thor: Love and Thunder earned $7.6 million (-42%) in its fifth weekend for a new $316.1 million 31-day domestic total. For all the pontificating online about Marvel being in trouble or Thor 4 being a disappointment, Love & Thunder just passed the $315 million domestic cume of Ragnarök. Once it tops $322 million, it will have sold more tickets than the previous Thor. It now sits with $698.9 million worldwide, nearing $700 million and Thor: Ragnarök's no China/no Russia cume of $712 million ($854 million total in 2017). In terms of exchange rates, it’s already above Thor 3’s no Russia/China global cume. It’s not playing as a breakout sequel to Thor 3, but money is money. Besides, Thor 4 didn’t bring much new to the table after the last two Thor movies. While its reception may have been disappointing, it’s not like Marvel needs Thor: Triumphant.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...h=5f0065776fed