Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

I dunno if that's the case, since some of the most successful projects this phase have been on the quippy side. But something isn't connecting the way it did pre-Endgame. Maybe it's that not every project is made for the usual audience now, and some of this stuff is targeted at specific demo's and genres. Maybe Marvel's reputation has grown too big for the actual product and people will never be satisfied. Maybe they're letting the directors have too much leeway and something is getting left out of the recipe. Maybe the MCU hasn't changed enough, or too much, or maybe it has nothing to do with Marvel at all and we're what is different now, post-2020. I'm sure someone somewhere is doing all kinds of sociological research about it.

Have they? I mean, I felt like NWH and Shang-Chi had forced humor but I didn't think they were as massively quippy as LaT seems to be. Maybe if we're counting the Disney+ shows.

It's no worse than any of the other tonal dissonances in the film, honestly. And MCU Gorr is a pale shadow of the comic version. Bale gave a really good performance, but Gorr is only marginally more scary than Malekith was.

Watched the film with my kids, and my daughter loved the scene in question. That pretty much won me over. That, and it's a weird, left field asspull move by Thor that I've decided to internalize not as bad/weird writing but as him using the Odinforce, which should have transferred to him after Hela died. I don't think the MCU has ever said anything about the Odinforce moving through the royal line, but that's how I'm looking at it.

There's also some stuff in the mix, narrative parallels and complimentary structures and plot points and such, but that's worth a lot less than the raw entertainment value, so who cares?

It definitely seems like a movie where the tone is all over the place and the stakes are nil. Not what I want out of a Thor movie.

I can see why kids would like it, but again it feels like something from a kids movie which...I'm not sure if this was the appropriate place for it? I dunno. Kind of kills all the menace and threat, but what else is now.

[inisideguy]

Box Office: ‘Top Gun 2’ Passes $1.35 Billion As ‘Thor 4’ Tops ‘Thor 3’

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...h=5f0065776fed

Yup. It will do better worldwide than Thor 3 did if you exclude Russia and China. Pretty remarkable for a movie people say underperformed. The problem is Doctor Strange over performed so now thats the new MCU haters benchmark. Gonna pass Thor 3 for tickets sold in USA and Canada. And worldwide. Yet here we are. People downplaying what is indeed a massive success for the franchise. Literally increasing your box office with each movie released 4 movies in.

[Ascended]

Have they? I mean, I felt like NWH and Shang-Chi had forced humor but I didn't think they were as massively quippy as LaT seems to be. Maybe if we're counting the Disney+ shows.

I was. In my head I don't really draw a division between the shows and films.

It definitely seems like a movie where the tone is all over the place and the stakes are nil. Not what I want out of a Thor movie.

It's Waititi making Thor, with all the good and bad that comes with it. Just like we all expected it to be.

The stakes are higher than they were in Ragnarok, but just like in Ragnarok the ceaseless jokes and unbalanced tone renders the sense of threat moot, or at best severely diminishes it.

You and I would, I think, prefer the same kind of Thor movie; one that's more serious, more epic and mythical (in the classical sense), more Walt Simmonson and less Matt Fraction. We didn't get that with Ragnarok and we didn't get it with L&T. We were never going to.

As for the idea that phase 4 has been about guilt and consequences, I think that's spot on. Is there a phase 4 project that hasn't touched on those things as a central theme? I seriously can't think of one.

[Colossus1980]

Yup. It will do better worldwide than Thor 3 did if you exclude Russia and China. Pretty remarkable for a movie people say underperformed. The problem is Doctor Strange over performed so now thats the new MCU haters benchmark. Gonna pass Thor 3 for tickets sold in USA and Canada. And worldwide. Yet here we are. People downplaying what is indeed a massive success for the franchise. Literally increasing your box office with each movie released 4 movies in.

But Thor 4 did cost 70M more to make, not counting marketing. It's expected to make more domestically if not WW. The problem was the movie is a critical mess. Waititi made way too many jokes. The movie is lucky to be able to beat Ragnarok with such low ratings.

[inisideguy]

But Thor 4 did cost 70M more to make, not counting marketing. It's expected to make more domestically if not WW. The problem was the movie is a critical mess. Waititi made way too many jokes. The movie is lucky to be able to beat Ragnarok with such low ratings.

Thats a problem for the critics. Not the audience. They are buying more tickets for this movie than the last one.

[mace11]

Ms marvel got back in the top ten for original shows with episode 5 and made it to number 7.
Streaming – Persons 2+ Total Minutes Viewed – Week of July 4-10, 2022
https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

[mace11]

Bullet Train Box Office, Warner Bros Discovery Streaming Release Strategy


Grace talks about ms marvel around -
11:03
Getting back to the top ten original shows.

[Username taken]

Definitely WOM hurt the box office. But I also thought it was too gory for young kids. I'm sure quite a few parents skipped taking them to this movie due to the content. Still pretty good box office despite the limitations(like going on Disney+ in 6 weeks).

I think Dr Strange 2 violence and horror hurt it more than anything else.

My son (who is 7) watched the movie and said he’ll never watch it again because it was too scary. Raimi got away with a lot of stuff in MoM for a PG-13 rated movie.

[Ascended]

Didn't let my daughter (9) watch Strange 2 and never intended to after hearing about the horror elements, and almost didn't take her to see Thor 4 after hearing that it was gory. But Marvel films are a family tradition in the Ascended household, going all the way back to me and my wife's first date watching Iron Man 1, and we figured we'd take her to L&T and just be prepared to leave if things got too bad.

We were worried for nothing, there were a couple moments that creeped her out but that was it.

[anyajenkins]

Yeah, my nephew who usually likes marvel movies didn’t want to see MoM, because it looked too ‘freaky’.

I'm trying to think about the pretentiousness but i got nothing unless you mean that they were trying to be more than a superhero movie then i disagree because i would have welcomed more pretentiousness then to be honest - the scope they went for was too small. however i did find it dull with many uninteresting characters and actors even though i was opened to the material because i love marvel cosmic it lacked entertainment and the execution was poor

‘Pretentiousness’ because it was trying to be this big, sweeping historical epic, complete with with Oscar talk. But it’s was about space robots . The world and universe was created by giant super powered space robots, profoundly taking on creationism and evolution at the same time. Human civilization and technology was created and grew because of smaller, super powered space robots. They were forbidden to infer with human wars, for reasons…but could infer with anything else. Except for that one time, one of them did interfer by mind controlling people into not fighting and then continued to mind control them for the next 500 years. And nothing happened for him breaking that rule and guess the other things are allowed? Then the robots eventually get robot alzheimer's? Alright the… And other marvel movies were entertaining enough that you didn’t think of the plot holes much, but this was mostly pretty scenery, so you can’t help thinking, why is one of the robots permanently a child? What’s the point of that? What’s up with the evil, transformer looking space robots? They seemed important, then disappeared then they were back and one, but only one now talks?

[mace11]

Yeah, my nephew who usually likes marvel movies didn’t want to see MoM, because it looked too ‘freaky’.

Human civilization and technology was created and grew because of smaller, super powered space robots.

It looks like wakandans developed their civilization and technology on thier own and were the first to do so on mcu 616 earth.

2.5 million years ago, a meteorite made of the alien element vibranium landed in the heart of Africa, greatly affecting the surrounding flora. Centuries later, five tribes colonized the area and went to war over the metal, which they referred to as Isipho. One day, Bashenga was guided by a vision of Bast who led him towards a plant that had mutated as a result of the metal's radiation.

Upon ingesting the herb, Bashenga discovered he had been imbued with superhuman abilities and used them to unite the tribes as the first King of Wakanda and the first "Black Panther". Four of the tribes pledged their loyalty to Bashenga; the fifth, the Jabari Tribe, refused to pledge allegiance, and settled into the northern mountains to continue adhering to a more traditional and primitive way of life, while the rest of Wakanda continued to develop into a modernized rule. Bashenga's lineage would come to form a sixth pseudo tribe named the Golden Tribe, which included a line of his royal descendants that continued to survive into the modern day, thus establishing the Kingdom of Wakanda.

During the country's development, the Wakandans used the metal to develop technology that was far more highly-advanced than any other in existence. To protect themselves from the chaos that was slowly consuming the rest of the world, they created a cloaking field that allowed them to hide in plain sight. European explorers were later attracted by Wakanda's vibranium deposits, and began expeditions to find the Golden City, which later was associated with the myth of El Dorado following the arrival of the Spanish into Mesoamerica.Later, Wakanda was marked as a "hot-spot" for activities monitored by S.H.I.E.L.D.. As such, Wakanda was displayed in the holographic maps used by the organization to oversee those activities.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Wakanda

So it looks like the first civilzation on the mcu 616 earth was not in mesopotamia but it was wakanda,but it was isolated.
So in the mcu civilization was first in wadanda then later came to mesopotamia from help from the eternals.

Note-Technology was on earth before the eternals came.
It was there even in mesopotamia,but the eternals in mesopotamia help advanced that culture to later becomes a civilization later.

[John Venus]

As for the idea that phase 4 has been about guilt and consequences, I think that's spot on. Is there a phase 4 project that hasn't touched on those things as a central theme? I seriously can't think of one.

I would say guilt and consequences were phase 2-3's theme. The biggest theme of phase 4 has been grief, loss and moving on from it. We have Wanda who lost everything and escaped into a fantasy world then eventually snapped and became a villain. On the flip side you have Peter who lost his Aunt but was 'saved' in every sense of the word by his brothers from another universe and him losing everything and starting over was his own choice. Falcon & Winter Soldier was about filling in the void left by Steve, confronting and moving on from the past (especially Bucky), healing old wounds (Isaiah) and what it means to be Captain America. Similar to Wanda, the MCU Mandarin was also driven by desperation to regain what they lost. Marc Spector created alternate personalities to deal with the abuse and trauma his mother inflicted on him and the show is about him reconciling with his alternate selves. Taking all this into account, it's fitting that this phase is going to end with BP2 since it's about mourning the RL death of Chadwick Boseman.

The outliers to the grief theme so far are Loki (although he did mourn the loss of his prime timeline self), She Hulk, Eternals and Hawkeye.

[John Venus]

you got environmentalism from a seed of Celestial growing inside a planet(s)?

Yeah??

I was half expecting a counter argument akin to 'human destroy other life for their own continued existence, why shouldn't Tiamult do the same for humans?'. The Celestials are basically apex predators or parasites and we are their food source. I hope they lean into this angle when they get around to doing Galactus.

[Tofali]

I never considered environmentalism because humans were just a topic of conversation between beings that were sent on Earth to harvest them for a wholesome meal.

[MindofShadow]

I haven't actually watched Love and Thunder yet but I watched a FX promo and...

spoilers:

They really had Thor empower a bunch of kids with his powers and axes and let them fight off a bunch of monsters, no problem? In a Gorr the God Butcher story? Like anyone who reads Jane's run or Gorr's story and their main takeaway was "man, this needs more kids! And kids with superpowers!" I know the MCU tries to come off all ages but that's probably the most "kid movie" thing I have ever seen in an MCU movie. Well, aside from Kamala and her supporting cast going Home Alone on a swat team.

end of spoilers

It actually kinda sorta worked IMHO

The shadow monsters were just movie fodder monsters.

We know from canon it is something Odin could do so I guess Thor doing it like that was fine.

spoilers:

I would have preferred it if they were all Asguardians though and not other aliens mixed in. So it was like Thor powering up people who were already part god anyway. It was short, pretty much just distracted mooks so Thor could get to Gorr.

end of spoilers

biggest issue with it was cramming in more extra stuff that probably wasn't needed in a movie that was short and moving at a breakneck pace the whole time