Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Ascended]

I think most people assume the endgame for MCU Strange is becoming the Sorcerer Supreme he's supposed to be, but that just makes me wonder if they're going to use it as an excuse to write him out.

I don't see Marvel writing out either character pre-maturely. I figure Strange 3 will hit before those two Avenger movies in phase 6 and we'll see Strange become Sorcerer Supreme there, in order to get him to his "final form" in time to deal with Secret Wars and Kang. Where that'll leave Wong is anyone's guess but the character is a long-standing member of Strange's supporting cast and has proven quite popular in phase 4, so I expect he'll be there for Kang too. Marvel won't want to lose Wong just so Steven can have the title, especially when *not* being Supreme doesn't seem to be slowing him down any.

Marvel likely enjoys having two popular wizards to throw around the MCU and won't want to get rid of either of them any sooner than they have to. So the real question is how long do the actors want to stay in the roles?

[Frontier]

I don't see Marvel writing out either character pre-maturely. I figure Strange 3 will hit before those two Avenger movies in phase 6 and we'll see Strange become Sorcerer Supreme there, in order to get him to his "final form" in time to deal with Secret Wars and Kang. Where that'll leave Wong is anyone's guess but the character is a long-standing member of Strange's supporting cast and has proven quite popular in phase 4, so I expect he'll be there for Kang too. Marvel won't want to lose Wong just so Steven can have the title, especially when *not* being Supreme doesn't seem to be slowing him down any.

Marvel likely enjoys having two popular wizards to throw around the MCU and won't want to get rid of either of them any sooner than they have to. So the real question is how long do the actors want to stay in the roles?

I hope Clea shows up too .

[mace11]

She-hulk in the top ten again for original shows with episode 4 and made it to number 5.
Week of September 5 - 11, 2022
https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

[Witchfan]

She-hulk in the top ten again for original shows with episode 4 and made it to number 5.
Week of September 5 - 11, 2022
https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

She-Hulk is doing better than Ms. Marvel.

[Galerion]

Wong is an awful ss. He sends strange to do his job than gets his butt kicked by wanda twice. He is ss. He should be the one helping america. Why is strange getting sent to do his job?

He is the boss who makes others do the work while he watches tv and breaks crooks out of jail to do underground fights while strange does everything.

Wong better step up because right now he is feeling like the ultra magnus "I can't deal with that now" that hot rod had to step in and save kind of ss. Not good.

Wong is fun but he has not been a good ss so far.

I understand your sentiment but your argument is based on a barbaric "might makes right" attitude and that's not how it works in any kind of civilized society. What you are describing is literally how it works in our society.

A special forces soldier can kick way more ass than a general can. That doesn't mean that soldier deserves to be general though. There is a good reason why that soldier and the general are in their positions.
Similarly just because you are good at shipping Amazon packages doesn't mean you deserve the position of Jeff Bezos. He is the boss for a reason.

The events of NWH alone are already enough to show why Strange isn't the SS for rightful reasons. Wong was against using the spell and nothing would have happened if his authority would have been respected. The only thing you can blame him for is trusting Strange enough to let him do it anyway instead of putting his foot down.
Strange on the other hand sees no problem ethically to toy with the memory of others to get a kid into college. Okay.
He also botches the spell because Peter Parker has to tell him a few exceptions while he has already started it. WTF? Were they in some kind of hurry?
For someone who likes to remind people that he is a doctor he sure acted nothing like it. Doctors actually do tons of tests and ask tons of questions beforehand so they can take the right course of action.
And the cherry on top is that he gets pissed when Peter tells him he didn't call the college before coming to him. Peter is certainly a bit of a doofus but he certainly can't be held responsible for the non-existing communication skills and poor judgement that Strange showed throughout that entire chain of events.

[phonogram12]

It bothered me a lot and the only thing it did was increase my dislike (tbh my hate) for Iron Man.

I wouldn't say I outright ever hated Tony. He did, however, remind me that all you have to be is rich and white and you can pretty much get away with anything. And that these very same people only start giving a crap about things when they effect them directly.

Anyway...can I ask why it bothered you?

Yeah. Because they mine more from it being Hank than they really did with Tony (beyond the damage in Sokovia but he bounced back quicker than Hank ever does) and I just did not care for quippy Ultron.

Do you think it would've worked and had the same impact with MCU's Michael Douglas Hank?

[Omega Alpha]

She-Hulk is doing better than Ms. Marvel.

Makes perfect sense- it had one of the most popular Avengers in the first two episodes (hell, easily the most popular one to appear in a Disney + show) and has an Emmy winner as lead star.

[Ascended]

I hope Clea shows up too .

Well, she *did* appear in that post-credits zinger so I'm sure she'll play a role of *some* kind going forward. Strange 3 for sure, and past that....? Who knows? Maybe once Cumberbatch is done the films will do what the comics are right now, and use Clea as the next Dr. Strange?

Of course, Marvel *did* cast a big name actress for the role, and they do love to throw those guys away after a single, underwhelming cameo so......

Fingers crossed I guess.

Do you think it would've worked and had the same impact with MCU's Michael Douglas Hank?

I don't think so, no.

Had AoU introduced Hank, and had Hank create Ultron in the same movie, we'd have just had an Ant-Man forever trapped in the shadow of his first-appearance and the big mistake of creating a murder-bot. It'd have ruined the film version of the character the same way slapping Janet ruined the comic version and would've ended up being a big handicap to the Ant movies (which didn't exist when AoU hit).

Had Hank appeared in a movie or two before AoU, then he probably could have gotten away with creating Ultron and fans would see it the same way we see Tony's actions; a mistake that got out of hand, but ultimately little more than a blip on an otherwise heroic career.

However, popularity plays a big part too. Tony gets away with a lot in the MCU because he's popular with fans and people are willing to ignore all the questionable things he's done and the huge mistakes he's made. Would Douglas' Hank Pym have the same kind of popularity-driven protection? I love Douglas as an actor but I don't think he'd have ever caught on like Downy did, in which case Hank creating Ultron would've still been a bigger hurdle than what we saw with Tony doing it.

I don't think Hank creating Ultron would've killed the Ant-Man franchise in film, but I don't think it could've taken the hit as easily as Iron Man did.

[Frontier]

I understand your sentiment but your argument is based on a barbaric "might makes right" attitude and that's not how it works in any kind of civilized society. What you are describing is literally how it works in our society.

A special forces soldier can kick way more ass than a general can. That doesn't mean that soldier deserves to be general though. There is a good reason why that soldier and the general are in their positions.
Similarly just because you are good at shipping Amazon packages doesn't mean you deserve the position of Jeff Bezos. He is the boss for a reason.

The events of NWH alone are already enough to show why Strange isn't the SS for rightful reasons. Wong was against using the spell and nothing would have happened if his authority would have been respected. The only thing you can blame him for is trusting Strange enough to let him do it anyway instead of putting his foot down.
Strange on the other hand sees no problem ethically to toy with the memory of others to get a kid into college. Okay.
He also botches the spell because Peter Parker has to tell him a few exceptions while he has already started it. WTF? Were they in some kind of hurry?
For someone who likes to remind people that he is a doctor he sure acted nothing like it. Doctors actually do tons of tests and ask tons of questions beforehand so they can take the right course of action.
And the cherry on top is that he gets pissed when Peter tells him he didn't call the college before coming to him. Peter is certainly a bit of a doofus but he certainly can't be held responsible for the non-existing communication skills and poor judgement that Strange showed throughout that entire chain of events.

Obviously Strange isn't ready for it because they keep making him an impulsive snarker who somehow still needs humility lessons even after that was the whole point of his first movie ('cuz somebody has to fill in the spot with Tony gone)...but that doesn't make Wong particularly more impressive as Sorcerer Supreme.

I wouldn't say I outright ever hated Tony. He did, however, remind me that all you have to be is rich and white and you can pretty much get away with anything. And that these very same people only start giving a crap about things when they effect them directly.

The only time I really hated Tony was when he was influencing MCU Spider-Man too much.

Do you think it would've worked and had the same impact with MCU's Michael Douglas Hank?

If handled right, yeah. I think we could've gotten some great dramatic acting and pathos out of it.

Well, she *did* appear in that post-credits zinger so I'm sure she'll play a role of *some* kind going forward. Strange 3 for sure, and past that....? Who knows? Maybe once Cumberbatch is done the films will do what the comics are right now, and use Clea as the next Dr. Strange?

Of course, Marvel *did* cast a big name actress for the role, and they do love to throw those guys away after a single, underwhelming cameo so......

Fingers crossed I guess.

The MCU doesn't have the best track record with love interests or female heroes and the comics have often failed Clea multiple times, so hopefully they can do right by Clea.

I don't think so, no.

Had AoU introduced Hank, and had Hank create Ultron in the same movie, we'd have just had an Ant-Man forever trapped in the shadow of his first-appearance and the big mistake of creating a murder-bot. It'd have ruined the film version of the character the same way slapping Janet ruined the comic version and would've ended up being a big handicap to the Ant movies (which didn't exist when AoU hit).

Had Hank appeared in a movie or two before AoU, then he probably could have gotten away with creating Ultron and fans would see it the same way we see Tony's actions; a mistake that got out of hand, but ultimately little more than a blip on an otherwise heroic career.

However, popularity plays a big part too. Tony gets away with a lot in the MCU because he's popular with fans and people are willing to ignore all the questionable things he's done and the huge mistakes he's made. Would Douglas' Hank Pym have the same kind of popularity-driven protection? I love Douglas as an actor but I don't think he'd have ever caught on like Downy did, in which case Hank creating Ultron would've still been a bigger hurdle than what we saw with Tony doing it.

I don't think Hank creating Ultron would've killed the Ant-Man franchise in film, but I don't think it could've taken the hit as easily as Iron Man did.

I don't think it would've worked as an introductory story although obviously the way they handled Ant-Man in the MCU made it hard to promote or develop Hank versus the "younger stars."

I still think the best adaption of the Ultron storyline was when Earth's Mightiest Heroes did it:

[phonogram12]

If handled right, yeah. I think we could've gotten some great dramatic acting and pathos out of it.

Thing is, Ant-Man hadn't even come out yet. Should they have used another villain for AOU? If so, which one?

[Frontier]

Thing is, Ant-Man hadn't even come out yet. Should they have used another villain for AOU? If so, which one?

There are a lot of Avengers villains even if obviously they prioritized the main ones and I guess we can't waste a movie with Graviton because the movies have to feel like "events" (even if I think that through the pacing out a bit).

Maybe Zodiac?

They also wasted Baron Strucker.

[phonogram12]

There are a lot of Avengers villains even if obviously they prioritized the main ones and I guess we can't waste a movie with Graviton because the movies have to feel like "events" (even if I think that through the pacing out a bit).

Maybe Zodiac?

They also wasted Baron Strucker.

If they didn't do more with Red Skull I highly doubt they would've done more with Strucker.

[Drops Of Venus]

So he can actually prove himself as Sorcerer Supreme and not Dr. Strange's sidekick?

Wong is an awful ss. He sends strange to do his job than gets his butt kicked by wanda twice. He is ss. He should be the one helping america. Why is strange getting sent to do his job?

He is the boss who makes others do the work while he watches tv and breaks crooks out of jail to do underground fights while strange does everything.

Wong better step up because right now he is feeling like the ultra magnus "I can't deal with that now" that hot rod had to step in and save kind of ss. Not good.

Wong is fun but he has not been a good ss so far.

I gotta be honest: I feel like the insistence on keeping Wong as Sorcerer Supreme is Marvel's way of compensating for whitewashing the first Sorcerer Supreme in the MCU. Now we have an asian man in the role like it was originally supposed to be and they've been trying to squeeze him in as many productions as possible to get that point across, but no one takes him seriously enough, so it feels like a glorified title. Unless he gets his own production, Strange will basically act like the Sorcerer Supreme in all but name.

However, in a live-action setting, where actors age out and retire from roles, this is a pretty bad idea. The longer they wait to give Strange the Sorcerer Supreme title, the less time he'll have to actually use that title in the MCU. Unless they know for a fact Benedict will want to stay for the next 10 years or so, it's a risky move. I would hate for him to get the Sorcerer Supreme title only to get replaced a few years later because the MCU will have moved on to the next batch of characters by that point.

[Frontier]

If they didn't do more with Red Skull I highly doubt they would've done more with Strucker.

The irony being the one reason they didn't have him in First Avenger was so they didn't end up wasting him...only to then end up doing that when he did appear.

MCU's villain problem at it's finest.

[MindofShadow]

I would have settled for, "Tony finds an old file/drive about Ultron created by Hank Pym of SHIELD decades ago and tried to fix it" to be honest with you.

Even a throwaway line that Hank was the one that did the bulk of the work but didn't have the tech at the time to complete it (maybe too similar to IM2 then i guess) woulda worked for me. Especially if they knew they were doing an older Pym in Ant-Man.