Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Alan2099]

I heard about that Miles-Thor thing, apparently it was pretty bad. What did they do?

Asgard was now a New York style Ghetto with graffiti everywhere (including on Thor's hammer) and shoes hanging from powerlines. Miles wore sneakers with his Thor costume. He said things like "By Odin's fade!" and the intro narration to the book was written as a rap.

For starters.

[Frontier]

Is that
spoilers:

Contemplator, or someone else

end of spoilers
at 1:37?

Maybe it's just the DnA suits but I kind of wish the team was more serious, though they might just be using all the comedy bits.

I hope High-Evolutionary puts his comic helmet on at some point.

Looks like we see Rocket and Lyla's love story.

So Adam does follow them to Counter-Earth.

[Reviresco]

Is that
spoilers:

Contemplator, or someone else

end of spoilers
at 1:37?

I thought it was the High Evolutionary, but I also thought, when did he gain that ability? so ... I don't know.

Is anyone else underwhelmed by Adam Warlock? I don't care for that costume at all.

[Force de Phenix]

Is anyone else underwhelmed by Adam Warlock? I don't care for that costume at all.

Yes. He's going to be a tertiary character in a Rocket Raccoon movie with jokes I don't even find funny. This is what happens when you don't have the Fantastic Four in the MCU. The last back and forth was cringeworthy.

[Ascended]

Asgard was now a New York style Ghetto with graffiti everywhere (including on Thor's hammer) and shoes hanging from powerlines. Miles wore sneakers with his Thor costume. He said things like "By Odin's fade!" and the intro narration to the book was written as a rap.

For starters.

......

Okay, that *does* sound terrible.

I mean, like, *really* terrible.

[Ascended]

Like, you could very well race-bend a character and make it more central or poignant to said character, which is probably the point behind doing it. Or it's just an incidental thing that has no bearing on the character at all. I feel like the latter is usually more the case with race-bending than the former.

The latter usually is how they do it, because if they were willing to put any actual effort into it, or actually wanted to provide legit representation, they'd be using a PoC character instead of race bending someone.

Again, there's layers to it. Casting the always-excellent Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White in Superman, and treating him 100% like the typical Perry? Fine, that's a supporting character who doesn't need to have the altered race acknowledged, it's just there for the optics and for the bragging rights of saying Fishburne is in your movie. But if you did a movie about Perry White, and this is an old guy who came up in the news world back when black men weren't really allowed to be news anchors, or weren't invited to the big journalist award stuff....then that black Perry isn't gonna see the world in exactly the same way white Perry does, and if you ignore that you're not really doing anyone any favors are you? Again, it doesn't have to be, and often shouldn't be, a focus. But if I were a Hispanic man, my life would be slightly different from what it is and I feel like it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. Generally, all I want is some minor thing, some small mention, that puts things in context. That's enough most of the time.

Generally I don't like race bending but I recognize that sometimes it's viable, especially in situations like these where you're dealing with IP that pre-date the civil rights movement and most of the big names were created when straight/white/male wasn't just the norm, but damn near the only option allowed.

OK...but here is where the double standard I talked about before comes in...

White --> POC: It's not a problem. Best actor/actress for the role. It's about representation. It's a different universe and doesn't have to be the same.
POC --> White: OMFG...They can't do it to that character because reasons!!!!

That happens because the point of race bending is to balance out the double standard we already have. If you race bend a white guy, then you're leveling the playing field a little and giving PoC the attention they weren't getting but should have. White washing a PoC is just giving us more white folk in a entertainment industry that already has plenty of white folk.

Ideally we'd be getting actual PoC characters instead of race bent white ones. But comics are an old medium and a lot of the IP with the deepest, richest history are all white guys, so we're in a weird spot. We can give Ms. Marvel and other new, diverse characters a push, but someone like Kamala doesn't have decades upon decades of material to draw from or adapt, so there's less road to run. So in a lot of cases it's either "do the white guy with tons of celebrated stories going back decades" or "do the PoC who hasn't been around nearly as long and doesn't have as many stories, rogues, allies, etc., to work with." So sometimes, the studios try to split the difference and give that deep history to a PoC, either by swapping characters (like having Sam Wilson adapt a Steve Rogers story) or by race changing the white guy.

[Ascended]

Moving on....

Enjoyed that GotG3 trailer. Looks exactly like what I was expecting (another Gunn Guardians story, built just like the other ones flaws and all). Hope the humor is a little more on-point than in volume 2, but otherwise I'm pretty hyped for this.

Personal theory: that scene where Nebula is carrying Quill, as if he's dead, and everything is all epic and slow motion? Looks like Quill is dead....but my theory is that he's just passed out drunk.

[Chris0013]

The latter usually is how they do it, because if they were willing to put any actual effort into it, or actually wanted to provide legit representation, they'd be using a PoC character instead of race bending someone.

Again, there's layers to it. Casting the always-excellent Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White in Superman, and treating him 100% like the typical Perry? Fine, that's a supporting character who doesn't need to have the altered race acknowledged, it's just there for the optics and for the bragging rights of saying Fishburne is in your movie. But if you did a movie about Perry White, and this is an old guy who came up in the news world back when black men weren't really allowed to be news anchors, or weren't invited to the big journalist award stuff....then that black Perry isn't gonna see the world in exactly the same way white Perry does, and if you ignore that you're not really doing anyone any favors are you? Again, it doesn't have to be, and often shouldn't be, a focus. But if I were a Hispanic man, my life would be slightly different from what it is and I feel like it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. Generally, all I want is some minor thing, some small mention, that puts things in context. That's enough most of the time.

Generally I don't like race bending but I recognize that sometimes it's viable, especially in situations like these where you're dealing with IP that pre-date the civil rights movement and most of the big names were created when straight/white/male wasn't just the norm, but damn near the only option allowed.



That happens because the point of race bending is to balance out the double standard we already have. If you race bend a white guy, then you're leveling the playing field a little and giving PoC the attention they weren't getting but should have. White washing a PoC is just giving us more white folk in a entertainment industry that already has plenty of white folk.

Ideally we'd be getting actual PoC characters instead of race bent white ones. But comics are an old medium and a lot of the IP with the deepest, richest history are all white guys, so we're in a weird spot. We can give Ms. Marvel and other new, diverse characters a push, but someone like Kamala doesn't have decades upon decades of material to draw from or adapt, so there's less road to run. So in a lot of cases it's either "do the white guy with tons of celebrated stories going back decades" or "do the PoC who hasn't been around nearly as long and doesn't have as many stories, rogues, allies, etc., to work with." So sometimes, the studios try to split the difference and give that deep history to a PoC, either by swapping characters (like having Sam Wilson adapt a Steve Rogers story) or by race changing the white guy.

And this is all I am saying. Level the field with the POC characters form the comics. IMO it would work out better and there would be less backlash.

As far as swapping stories between characters I have no problem with that. That is how I think Nova (Rich) should have been brought into the MCU before Endgame. Take the Thor story The Stone Men From Saturn and have Rich get his powers and fight Kronans who have a base on Saturn as part of their criminal enterprise.

And done...

[Force de Phenix]

Moving on....

Enjoyed that GotG3 trailer. Looks exactly like what I was expecting (another Gunn Guardians story, built just like the other ones flaws and all). Hope the humor is a little more on-point than in volume 2, but otherwise I'm pretty hyped for this.

Personal theory: that scene where Nebula is carrying Quill, as if he's dead, and everything is all epic and slow motion? Looks like Quill is dead....but my theory is that he's just passed out drunk.

Drax is gonna die because the actor's done with this. There might be more. It's Gunn's send-off movie. I'm assuming Adam Warlock will return, and they need the Guardians for their next big thing.

I just feel bad for DC fans if Gunn's gonna be their Feige. And the Flash's trailer got a lot of positive feedback, so he also has to juggle with throwing that out.

I'm guessing Warlock is going to be this movie's Ironheart and Photon.

[Frontier]

Yes. He's going to be a tertiary character in a Rocket Raccoon movie with jokes I don't even find funny. This is what happens when you don't have the Fantastic Four in the MCU. The last back and forth was cringeworthy.

I'm at least glad he apparently follows them to Counter Earth. I thought he was only going to be in one scene.

The latter usually is how they do it, because if they were willing to put any actual effort into it, or actually wanted to provide legit representation, they'd be using a PoC character instead of race bending someone.

Again, there's layers to it. Casting the always-excellent Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White in Superman, and treating him 100% like the typical Perry? Fine, that's a supporting character who doesn't need to have the altered race acknowledged, it's just there for the optics and for the bragging rights of saying Fishburne is in your movie. But if you did a movie about Perry White, and this is an old guy who came up in the news world back when black men weren't really allowed to be news anchors, or weren't invited to the big journalist award stuff....then that black Perry isn't gonna see the world in exactly the same way white Perry does, and if you ignore that you're not really doing anyone any favors are you? Again, it doesn't have to be, and often shouldn't be, a focus. But if I were a Hispanic man, my life would be slightly different from what it is and I feel like it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. Generally, all I want is some minor thing, some small mention, that puts things in context. That's enough most of the time.

Generally I don't like race bending but I recognize that sometimes it's viable, especially in situations like these where you're dealing with IP that pre-date the civil rights movement and most of the big names were created when straight/white/male wasn't just the norm, but damn near the only option allowed.

That reminds me how Rocky Caroll did a surprisingly good (white) Perry in the DCAMU.

[Chris0013]

Drax is gonna die because the actor's done with this. There might be more. It's Gunn's send-off movie. I'm assuming Adam Warlock will return, and they need the Guardians for their next big thing.

I just feel bad for DC fans if Gunn's gonna be their Feige. And the Flash's trailer got a lot of positive feedback, so he also has to juggle with throwing that out.

I'm guessing Warlock is going to be this movie's Ironheart and Photon.

I am assuming the only reason they kept The Flash Movie after the actor's problems is because they are using Flashpoint as their reset with Gun in charge.

[inisideguy]

Ant-man getting beat up on RT. Sheesh.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/5-...n-shang-chi-2/

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Tiger...on_(Earth-616)

I'm hoping they get used next.

[Frontier]

Ant-man getting beat up on RT. Sheesh.

That kind of surprised me. The Ant-Man movies are generally crowd-pleasers, if not amazing.

Is it just anti-Marvel hysteria or...?

[kidfresh512]

That kind of surprised me. The Ant-Man movies are generally crowd-pleasers, if not amazing.

Is it just anti-Marvel hysteria or...?

The non spoiler reviews I have read, or seen so far in videos most seem to have issue with the story itself the actual material. Johnathan Majors got some acting props, but it was prefaced with "doing the best with what he was given" type thing. What I read hasn't sounded like hysterical, super hero fatigue blah blah.

First movie of phase 5 not knocking it out of the park is going to be pressure...