Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

The shows/specials etc.. on average were strongest part of phase 4 and most folks and critics think so too looking at the RT scores and most of the movies did really well at box office/disney plus.
No break required.

I think some of them have definitely been rougher than they needed to be.

[Force de Phenix]

The shows/specials etc.. on average were strongest part of phase 4 and most folks and critics think so too looking at the RT scores and most of the movies did really well at box office/disney plus.
No break required.

Disney pushed back The Marvels because they admitted this themselves, and they're throwing their workers under the bus and using it as an excuse for their delays.

[mace11]

[gurkle]

I thought this was known for a while. Raimi said in one of his (relatively few) interviews when the movie came out that he wasn't even told WandaVision existed until he was maybe 3/4 of the way through plotting the new story of Doctor Strange 2.

And Elizabeth Olsen has mentioned a number of times that she was almost finished shooting WandaVision when she found out that her character would have a very similar story in this movie, and it was too late to change anything.

In the end it's on Kevin Feige, because he was the one who knew what was going on in both projects and thought that "Wanda becomes a psycho bitch" was such an important story that it was worth having her go through the same story twice.

[Frontier]

I thought this was known for a while. Raimi said in one of his (relatively few) interviews when the movie came out that he wasn't even told WandaVision existed until he was maybe 3/4 of the way through plotting the new story of Doctor Strange 2.

And Elizabeth Olsen has mentioned a number of times that she was almost finished shooting WandaVision when she found out that her character would have a very similar story in this movie, and it was too late to change anything.

In the end it's on Kevin Feige, because he was the one who knew what was going on in both projects and thought that "Wanda becomes a psycho bitch" was such an important story that it was worth having her go through the same story twice.

There was a lot in the movie that felt like it was in there just because they felt like they HAD to have it for story reasons (Wanda going crazy, the Illuminatti, America Chavez, Multiverse) even if it didn't feel like a natural progression.

[Force de Phenix]

You could hardly tell. The movie was its own thing and most people who watched the movie didn't buy a Disney Plus subscription and sit through the show.

It would've been too complicated to explain the show and have the movie.

This is why they made the whole Ms. Marvel show irrelevant at the last episode and made her a mutant. They don't need to explain the lengthy story about the Nur, Clandestine, and can just jump right into the action and comedy. Doctor Strange 2 was a Doctor Strange movie, not Wanda vision 2, which is what Disney Plus' Agatha Harkness will be.

[Drops Of Venus]

You could hardly tell. The movie was its own thing and most people who watched the movie didn't buy a Disney Plus subscription and sit through the show.

It would've been too complicated to explain the show and have the movie.

This is why they made the whole Ms. Marvel show irrelevant at the last episode and made her a mutant. They don't need to explain the lengthy story about the Nur, Clandestine, and can just jump right into the action and comedy. Doctor Strange 2 was a Doctor Strange movie, not Wanda vision 2, which is what Disney Plus' Agatha Harkness will be.

I disagree with this idea that WandaVision wasn't important to the movie because if that was the case, they wouldn't even had made Wanda's entire motivation revolve around her kids. For someone who only watched the movies, those kids simply didn't exist at all. Why make this such a pivotal part of her arc if you're not expecting people to pay attention to the shows? And now they're doing it again on Agatha: Coven Of Chaos by seemingly bringing Billy back. When Billy inevitably interacts with Wanda in one of the movies down the line, it won't make any sense if you're not aware of what's going on in those Disney+ shows.

[Wiccan]

Yeah. Last thing people knew about Wanda if they don't watch WandaVision, is that she just got brought back from the blip, Vision is dead and she doesn't have any kids.

It was simply bad planning + them being so set on doing "Wanda goes bad for wanting her kids back" because it was a thing in the comics.

[Bruce Wayne]

Didn't someone on twitter claim Waldron did dozens and dozens of rewrites for MoM because of Marvel?

[gurkle]

Didn't someone on twitter claim Waldron did dozens and dozens of rewrites for MoM because of Marvel?

Apparently Xochitl Gomez posted an Instagram comment saying to lay off Waldron because Marvel asked him for 33 rewrites and "none of it is up to him." If that was indeed her posting, then she sort of accidentally badmouthed the script while trying to explain that it wasn't the credited writer's fault.

To me the thing that really sums up the ridiculousness of the rewrites is that they spent a fortune in reshoots to add John Krasinski as Reed Richards instead of Daniel Craig as Balder the Brave in the role of "Illuminati member who gets instantly killed." What did this change get them? The cameo was unpopular, didn't address any of the movie's problems, and was a waste of time and money. Someone at Disney must have looked at the first cut and actually thought "another five-minute cameo" would solve anything.

[Frontier]

Apparently Xochitl Gomez posted an Instagram comment saying to lay off Waldron because Marvel asked him for 33 rewrites and "none of it is up to him." If that was indeed her posting, then she sort of accidentally badmouthed the script while trying to explain that it wasn't the credited writer's fault.

To me the thing that really sums up the ridiculousness of the rewrites is that they spent a fortune in reshoots to add John Krasinski as Reed Richards instead of Daniel Craig as Balder the Brave in the role of "Illuminati member who gets instantly killed." What did this change get them? The cameo was unpopular, didn't address any of the movie's problems, and was a waste of time and money. Someone at Disney must have looked at the first cut and actually thought "another five-minute cameo" would solve anything.

Would've been a waste of Balder...though I guess I'm glad he wasn't used there or in a Taika Thor movie.

[Force de Phenix]

I disagree with this idea that WandaVision wasn't important to the movie because if that was the case, they wouldn't even had made Wanda's entire motivation revolve around her kids. For someone who only watched the movies, those kids simply didn't exist at all. Why make this such a pivotal part of her arc if you're not expecting people to pay attention to the shows? And now they're doing it again on Agatha: Coven Of Chaos by seemingly bringing Billy back. When Billy inevitably interacts with Wanda in one of the movies down the line, it won't make any sense if you're not aware of what's going on in those Disney+ shows.

It only meant something for people who watched it I suppose, but the focus was on Doctor Strange more than anything. I don't know how much they plan on depending on Disney Plus subscribers for their box-office numbers, but they know they're a different audience. It's just annoying for people who try to follow one story. They're gonna have to summarize Ms. Marvel because it wasn't that watched.

The problem is cross marketing and the push for Disney's streaming service to remain relevant after Star Wars and Marvel aren't living up to what made them famous.

The movie made almost a billion, and even more than Guardians of the Galaxy 3, which is good for a not as popular character or team movie. They might make changes in the future, but they aren't budging with the strike apparently.

[Force de Phenix]

Apparently Xochitl Gomez posted an Instagram comment saying to lay off Waldron because Marvel asked him for 33 rewrites and "none of it is up to him." If that was indeed her posting, then she sort of accidentally badmouthed the script while trying to explain that it wasn't the credited writer's fault.

To me the thing that really sums up the ridiculousness of the rewrites is that they spent a fortune in reshoots to add John Krasinski as Reed Richards instead of Daniel Craig as Balder the Brave in the role of "Illuminati member who gets instantly killed." What did this change get them? The cameo was unpopular, didn't address any of the movie's problems, and was a waste of time and money. Someone at Disney must have looked at the first cut and actually thought "another five-minute cameo" would solve anything.

Saying it was unpopular is a bit too much. It was what moviegoers wanted after Spider-Man No Way Home. I don't think anyone would've known who the Thor character was as opposed to Jim from The Office in a Fantastic Four costume turning into spaghetti.

[Frontier]

It only meant something for people who watched it I suppose, but the focus was on Doctor Strange more than anything. I don't know how much they plan on depending on Disney Plus subscribers for their box-office numbers, but they know they're a different audience. It's just annoying for people who try to follow one story. They're gonna have to summarize Ms. Marvel because it wasn't that watched.

The problem is cross marketing and the push for Disney's streaming service to remain relevant after Star Wars and Marvel aren't living up to what made them famous.

The movie made almost a billion, and even more than Guardians of the Galaxy 3, which is good for a not as popular character or team movie. They might make changes in the future, but they aren't budging with the strike apparently.

I felt like they tried to pivot to make it still feel like a Stephen movie at times (maybe with Cumberbatch's own influence) but it still felt like there was so much else going on in the movie.

[Force de Phenix]

I felt like they tried to pivot to make it still feel like a Stephen movie at times (maybe with Cumberbatch's own influence) but it still felt like there was so much else going on in the movie.

When they said that the Disney Plus shows would introduce characters and then they would later appear in team movies to replace solo origin movies, it sounded like a good idea, and still is. However with established characters, like Wanda, it was to develop the character and to save screen time for the blockbusters, which is what Loki did with explaining the multiverse.

The directors don't want to feel tied to a streaming version of their character, which might've been what happened, and want to make movies exclusive to them and the big screen, and Feige gave them the freedom to do so.

They should keep movie characters like Wanda in the movies so people who only really watch the movies and don't want to buy Disney Plus can watch them without missing a 5 hour show. They're in over their heads with the Multiverse Saga, which is ironic because the Infinity Saga was more all over the place, but was more coherent because they didn't try to tie the stories that much and didn't have to worry about letting TV show fans down. The Defenders and Agents of Shield fans might have wanted the characters to appear, but there were no promises and they didn't use them, until now with Daredevil and probably an Agent from Shield.