Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Gnostic]

Well, Cyclops getting to be awesome and not overshadowed by Wolverine .

Also you can pull more from the comics with a different vibe than the Fox films.

I'm talking about the prequel movies. Wolverine did not overshadow Cyclops in the prequels.

Easy, do a different story. They didn't do a story with the Acolytes, and barely used the Brotherhood even. They could do a U-Men story, or X-STatix.

The Brotherhood was used for two (or arguably three) movies already and the Acolytes would feel like Brotherhood 2.0. Not to mention you would first have to make the public fear and hate mutants in order for those groups to exist, which was a plot point explored in the prequels.

The U-Men are another group that captures mutants to exploit their abilities (ala Weapon X). Even whole the "taking their powers and giving them to humans" is exactly what Weapon X did in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. So that isn't exactly new territory.

Sure, X-Statix would be new. However, they aren't the X-Men.

Focus on actual X-Men members. So many were under represented during the Jackman/Lawrence/Magneto/Xavier era. Actual X-Men at the forefront? Yes!

Again, talking about the prequels. Those heavily focused on Xavier, who is the leader of the X-Men. I would argue that he counts as a X-Men member. Wolverine is also a X-Men member, of course.

[marhawkman]

The Brotherhood was used for two (or arguably three) movies already and the Acolytes would feel like Brotherhood 2.0. Not to mention you would first have to make the public fear and hate mutants in order for those groups to exist, which was a plot point explored in the prequels.

I mean, Acolytes WERE Brotherhood 2.0 in the comics a lot of the time too. The difference was having an actual base of operations and being more... present. and not just showing up a few times.

The U-Men are another group that captures mutants to exploit their abilities (ala Weapon X). Even whole "taking their powers and giving them to humans" is exactly what Weapon X did in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. So that isn't exactly new territory.

Enh, I kinda saw that as the oppposite, borrowing from U-Men to add to Weapon X. Yeah they do weird stuff all the time, but not quite that level normally.

Sure, X-Statix would be new. However, they aren't the X-Men.

Enh... They're as much X-Men as the old New Mutants team was. Heck they're FUNDED by Chuckles.

[Maestro 216]

https://thedirect.com/article/ant-ma...marvel-reviews Marvel was surprised by the turnout of Quantumania.

[gurkle]

https://thedirect.com/article/ant-ma...marvel-reviews Marvel was surprised by the turnout of Quantumania.

Quote from the article [this is from a podcast interview with Joanna Robinson, author of the new book about the MCU who has sources inside the notoriously secretive Marvel studios]:

My understanding, having talked to some people, is that ‘Quantumania’ really shook them, and I'm sure ‘Secret Invasion’ shook them further, but ‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they felt like they had something good. Because they all internally thought, 'Everyone's gonna love this.' And then they put it out and people didn't. And then they were like, 'Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.' With ‘Quantumania,’ they were like, 'We put out a banger.' And then that's not how a lot of people felt."

I wonder if the pandemic threw off their ability to connect with audiences. So much was different in 2020-1 and maybe all the isolation and Zoom conferences and lack of direct contact with audiences threw them off.

With Quantumania they may have thought they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by doing something so much bigger and making it "important" by putting their new Big Bad in it. We all know how that worked out. Maybe they'll learn the lesson that what worked for Thor 3, a sequel radically different in tone from the earlier movies in the series, doesn't work for everything.

[Refrax5]

Quote from the article [this is from a podcast interview with Joanna Robinson, author of the new book about the MCU who has sources inside the notoriously secretive Marvel studios]:

My understanding, having talked to some people, is that ‘Quantumania’ really shook them, and I'm sure ‘Secret Invasion’ shook them further, but ‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they felt like they had something good. Because they all internally thought, 'Everyone's gonna love this.' And then they put it out and people didn't. And then they were like, 'Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.' With ‘Quantumania,’ they were like, 'We put out a banger.' And then that's not how a lot of people felt."

I wonder if the pandemic threw off their ability to connect with audiences. So much was different in 2020-1 and maybe all the isolation and Zoom conferences and lack of direct contact with audiences threw them off.

With Quantumania they may have thought they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by doing something so much bigger and making it "important" by putting their new Big Bad in it. We all know how that worked out. Maybe they'll learn the lesson that what worked for Thor 3, a sequel radically different in tone from the earlier movies in the series, doesn't work for everything.

It's weird, because I actually enjoyed Quantumania for the most part. It's not a masterpiece or anything, but I enjoyed it more than the last one.

[Sutekh]

It's weird, because I actually enjoyed Quantumania for the most part. It's not a masterpiece or anything, but I enjoyed it more than the last one.

I feel like the first two Ant-Man movies were kind of palette-cleanser movies, good on their own, but kind of away from all the big cosmic spectacle going on in the Avengers-side of the MCU, for those who want something a bit less 'heavy.'

And then the third movie kind of went into James Gunn-territory with the funky vistas and whacky characters (like Modok), and it was very much a Marvel movie, but didn't feel like an *Ant-Man* movie. It just wasn't small enough. The stakes were too big.

Sure, it makes sense fine that Scott has grown and all that, but it was a tonal shift I didn't really want, since every other darn Marvel movie already 'goes there' and what felt like a more personal stakes, 'comfortable place' niche in the MCU got embiggened to be as full of spectacle and whackiness and cosmic significance to the rest of the MCU, like... all the rest.

It was a fine meal, just not what I expected or wanted when I sat down at the table, so I left disappointed by a perfectly good spread.

[Maestro 216]

Quote from the article [this is from a podcast interview with Joanna Robinson, author of the new book about the MCU who has sources inside the notoriously secretive Marvel studios]:

My understanding, having talked to some people, is that ‘Quantumania’ really shook them, and I'm sure ‘Secret Invasion’ shook them further, but ‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they felt like they had something good. Because they all internally thought, 'Everyone's gonna love this.' And then they put it out and people didn't. And then they were like, 'Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.' With ‘Quantumania,’ they were like, 'We put out a banger.' And then that's not how a lot of people felt."

I wonder if the pandemic threw off their ability to connect with audiences. So much was different in 2020-1 and maybe all the isolation and Zoom conferences and lack of direct contact with audiences threw them off.

With Quantumania they may have thought they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by doing something so much bigger and making it "important" by putting their new Big Bad in it. We all know how that worked out. Maybe they'll learn the lesson that what worked for Thor 3, a sequel radically different in tone from the earlier movies in the series, doesn't work for everything.

I mean Thor 3 was fine since Infinity War served as a tone shift for Thor's arc. It was afterwards that he became too goofy.

[Frontier]

I'm talking about the prequel movies. Wolverine did not overshadow Cyclops in the prequels.

True but I don't think they really did enough with Cyclops there either.

[phonogram12]

Quote from the article [this is from a podcast interview with Joanna Robinson, author of the new book about the MCU who has sources inside the notoriously secretive Marvel studios]:

My understanding, having talked to some people, is that ‘Quantumania’ really shook them, and I'm sure ‘Secret Invasion’ shook them further, but ‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they felt like they had something good. Because they all internally thought, 'Everyone's gonna love this.' And then they put it out and people didn't. And then they were like, 'Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.' With ‘Quantumania,’ they were like, 'We put out a banger.' And then that's not how a lot of people felt."

I wonder if the pandemic threw off their ability to connect with audiences. So much was different in 2020-1 and maybe all the isolation and Zoom conferences and lack of direct contact with audiences threw them off.

With Quantumania they may have thought they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by doing something so much bigger and making it "important" by putting their new Big Bad in it. We all know how that worked out. Maybe they'll learn the lesson that what worked for Thor 3, a sequel radically different in tone from the earlier movies in the series, doesn't work for everything.

I can see how they would think that. That said, they also seemed to forget why people liked the first two so much (especially that first one). It's because despite all the size-changing, it was surprisingly (even charmingly) down-to-earth. Quantumania was just...too much. All at once. To an extent it felt like my eyes were being assaulted. I didn't think it was possible for me to feel so disappointed in a movie that starred both Paul Rudd and Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Frontier]

I also feel like it was the wrong movie to try and debut Kang as a serious threat, especially with the changed ending.

[phonogram12]

The Kang thing didn't bother me so much because of the countless number of Kangs out there. If there's an alligator Loki out there, there's almost certainly an Avengers level Kang threat out there.

[marhawkman]

Also you can do the Doom-bot angle, but with Kangs.

[ComicNoobie]

I also feel like it was the wrong movie to try and debut Kang as a serious threat, especially with the changed ending.

I agree, but mainly because I care about the Ant-Man characters way more then I do Kang and even though I enjoyed Quantumania I recognize that this movie was more about setting up Kang's future then it was telling a true Ant-Man story let alone closing Scott Lang's trilogy. Kang should have just got his own standalone movie to build him up. For all of MCU's experiments they have yet to make a true villain movie.

Had they just let MODOK be the main villain and focus on the Ant-Family I think Quantumania would have been all the better for it.

Edit: They didn't even have Kang use Growing Man which would have been perfect for a Stature fight!

[Frontier]

The Kang thing didn't bother me so much because of the countless number of Kangs out there. If there's an alligator Loki out there, there's almost certainly an Avengers level Kang threat out there.

Yeah, but this was meant to be a the classic, Conqueror, Kang and set up the threat level of the rest...and then they get turned into something goofy.

I agree, but mainly because I care about the Ant-Man characters way more then I do Kang and even though I enjoyed Quantumania I recognize that this movie was more about setting up Kang's future then it was telling a true Ant-Man story let alone closing Scott Lang's trilogy. Kang should have just got his own standalone movie to build him up. For all of MCU's experiments they have yet to make a true villain movie.

Had they just let MODOK be the main villain and focus on the Ant-Family I think Quantumania would have been all the better for it.

Edit: They didn't even have Kang use Growing Man which would have been perfect for a Stature fight!

Honestly the Ant-Family fighting Cross as MODOK running AIM sounds way more appropriate than fighting Kang.

Of course that also would've involved them treating MODOK as less of a joke than they did.

[ComicNoobie]

Yeah, but this was meant to be a the classic, Conqueror, Kang and set up the threat level of the rest...and then they get turned into something goofy.

Honestly the Ant-Family fighting Cross as MODOK running AIM sounds way more appropriate than fighting Kang.

Of course that also would've involved them treating MODOK as less of a joke than they did.

They could have had Rita Demara as Cross's assistant who gets her own Yellowjacket suit from him, making her his Hope replacement. What could have been a truly wacky Ant-Man movie.