Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Digifiend]

Has this been posted yet? Cover of the current issue of Variety. "Is Marvel In Trouble?"
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1719731019975409748

[gurkle]

Yeah, that article (and the credibility of the article and the author) has been the subject of a lot of discussion here.

[Albert1981]

What you're saying doesn't even make any sense, Ross, Valentina and Riri don't even have that much screentime, especially not compared to Shuri, Namor, Queen Ramonda, they're small parts of the movie you're trying to make look being than they actually are.

And don't switch goalposts you were telling me about the general audience and the MCU's but when confronted with a movie that was undoubtedly successful with the GA now suddenly that doesn't matter and it's all about your specific opinion, I don't care what you don't like or not, just stop trying to make what you in specific don't like look like an issue.

And for all your complaints about the multiverse and it's supposed exposition you keep making it clear you haven't actually paid attention to any of the movies and shows that actually feature it.
What rules are mentioned in NWH about the multiverse? Nothing just there are other universes that's it, same with MoM, and Quantumania, they say there are other universes and don't overly explain it like you keep saying they do.

The only things that come close to that is Loki and that entire show is about time travel and the multiverse, and if you're not willing to engage with how it explains the things that are important to it's plot that is your problem and your problem only and you shouldn't be watching the show to begin with.



Really all you've told me here is you're going to ignore how it continues and fits in with his actions from his previous appearances, just so you can continue to claim he didn't have an arc

Bruh, you gotta chill out. Sometimes my opinion lines up with general audiences, sometimes it doesn't. I would say MOST of the time, I agree with what most MCU fans like (historically speaking). Ross, Valentina and Riri were inserted to promote future stuff (which hasn't really been a problem with previous MCU entries in my opinion), but I thought it was not done as well as it was like in Civil War and even AoU. Ironheart literally has like five hours at least to become a hero in her own show. There was absolutely no need for her to become one in WF. Rhodey didn't become a superhero in Iron Man 1. I just found the Ross and Valentina stuff to be boring. I thought Ross was way more interesting in the first Panther movie. And Valentina doesn't have same energy as Fury did in the first few MCU movies. If they cut that stuff out, I might have liked WF more. Because it was really long. To me, painfully slow. And it was really dark visually too. Which I didn't care for either. I don't let general audiences opinions affect MY opinion on stuff. But Quantumania would have easily outperformed the previous two Ant-Man movies if general audiences liked it. Disney got the nerds/geeks to watch it, but pretty much everybody else thought it was basically nonsense. Marvel needs their movies to gross at least $500-600 million dollars NOT to lose money these days. Quantumania didn't achieve that and Marvel should be shocked that it underperformed so drastically. And Secret Invasion was in many respects even WORSE than Ant-Man 3. ONLY getting nerds/geeks to watch their films is NOT enough for them to be financially worthwhile. That's my "evidence" that general audiences are not automatically watching basically ALL of the MCU's movies like they used to.

I'm not watching Loki Season 2. I fully acknowledge it's not for me. And I used to be the biggest MCU stan out there. Like I was REALLY dickriding Marvel Studios for YEARS. I would watch anything they put out happily. Love Hiddleston, but he's not acting like a god anymore (which I really enjoyed). As I said before, I don't give a **** if other people dislike things I like or vice versa. I've heard a lot of good things about it. And I'm happy for the cast and crew. But Marvel should DEFINITELY care about what the critics and fans think of their projects. And I'm genuinely surprised audience scores have dropped below 80% at Rotten Tomatoes for Loki Season 2. Most of the MCU's other Disney+ projects easily cleared that hurdle. General audiences, my dude.

[Maestro 216]

I think Loki S2 was poison'd by Kang. I just don't think people like his character considering Quantumania's reception.

[Tofali]

I think Loki S2 was poison'd by Kang. I just don't think people like his character considering Quantumania's reception.

Loki was poisoned by the multiverse story that every one is tired of, Kang and Janet were the only good things in Quantumania. Everything else was just less than meh.

[Chris0013]

Loki was poisoned by the multiverse story that every one is tired of, Kang and Janet were the only good things in Quantumania. Everything else was just less than meh.

I liked He Who Remains and Victor Timely in Loki S1 and S2. My real issue with Quantumania was just that I think they went too big for a solo movie. Ant Man and Ant Man & The Wasp were smaller stakes...a heist and a keep the maguffin away from the bad guys. They should have done something smaller scale like the first 2.

[davetvs]

Yeah it seems like the general consensus is that Kang was the standout of Quantumania.

[mace11]

I think Loki S2 was poison'd by Kang.

Or sylvie.
Alot more male reactors for example can't stand her now,m she u etc..

[Tofali]

I liked He Who Remains and Victor Timely in Loki S1 and S2. My real issue with Quantumania was just that I think they went too big for a solo movie. Ant Man and Ant Man & The Wasp were smaller stakes...a heist and a keep the maguffin away from the bad guys. They should have done something smaller scale like the first 2.

Yep! the stakes should have been really low and Kang shouldn't have had that many interactions with Scott Lang. His level was Modok/Darren Cross and that is where the story should have been.

[Chris0013]

Yep! the stakes should have been really low and Kang shouldn't have had that many interactions with Scott Lang. His level was Modok/Darren Cross and that is where the story should have been.

Exactly...MODOK and AIM should have been the bad guys. And there should have been a resolution to Ghost's problem.

They should have done a better MODOK as well...more like the Face of Boe from Doctor Who.

[Colossus1980]

Loki Season 2 has significantly less viewers https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...165021017.html

[StickMin]

Bruh, you gotta chill out. Sometimes my opinion lines up with general audiences, sometimes it doesn't. I would say MOST of the time, I agree with what most MCU fans like (historically speaking). Ross, Valentina and Riri were inserted to promote future stuff (which hasn't really been a problem with previous MCU entries in my opinion), but I thought it was not done as well as it was like in Civil War and even AoU. Ironheart literally has like five hours at least to become a hero in her own show. There was absolutely no need for her to become one in WF. Rhodey didn't become a superhero in Iron Man 1. I just found the Ross and Valentina stuff to be boring. I thought Ross was way more interesting in the first Panther movie. And Valentina doesn't have same energy as Fury did in the first few MCU movies. If they cut that stuff out, I might have liked WF more. Because it was really long. To me, painfully slow. And it was really dark visually too. Which I didn't care for either. I don't let general audiences opinions affect MY opinion on stuff. But Quantumania would have easily outperformed the previous two Ant-Man movies if general audiences liked it. Disney got the nerds/geeks to watch it, but pretty much everybody else thought it was basically nonsense. Marvel needs their movies to gross at least $500-600 million dollars NOT to lose money these days. Quantumania didn't achieve that and Marvel should be shocked that it underperformed so drastically. And Secret Invasion was in many respects even WORSE than Ant-Man 3. ONLY getting nerds/geeks to watch their films is NOT enough for them to be financially worthwhile. That's my "evidence" that general audiences are not automatically watching basically ALL of the MCU's movies like they used to.

I'm not watching Loki Season 2. I fully acknowledge it's not for me. And I used to be the biggest MCU stan out there. Like I was REALLY dickriding Marvel Studios for YEARS. I would watch anything they put out happily. Love Hiddleston, but he's not acting like a god anymore (which I really enjoyed). As I said before, I don't give a **** if other people dislike things I like or vice versa. I've heard a lot of good things about it. And I'm happy for the cast and crew. But Marvel should DEFINITELY care about what the critics and fans think of their projects. And I'm genuinely surprised audience scores have dropped below 80% at Rotten Tomatoes for Loki Season 2. Most of the MCU's other Disney+ projects easily cleared that hurdle. General audiences, my dude.

It's amazing how you still found a way to make no sense.
In what way was Ross and Valentina's parts teasing future stuff? How is showing that Ross is helping keep the US from blaming Wakanda for Namor's actions teasing future stuff? You're just saying things.

And you can't even give a reason why Iron Heart's inclusion was bad other than she's gonna be in future stuff, like by your logic if the character was the exact same but didn't have her own TV show coming up she'd be completely fine.

And then you still said nothing, yes Quantumania and Secret Invasion was panned? Ok and? Two projects did badly, you think pointing that out is supposed to mean something when it doesn't.

And what are you even talking about with Loki, season 2 has 80 critic score, 78 audience score, it's still doing very well.

I think if it's not in the movie it doesn't count, or at least doesn't work. What we see at the beginning of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is that he has no problem with Wong outranking him or in asking for help from Wanda. Based on what we've seen of him, he has no problem letting others hold the knife. The movie is telling us he has a problem that, on the evidence of the film itself, he no longer has.

My favorite example of things that weren't in the movie is that the writer, in interviews, tried to give an explanation of why Wanda no longer cares about Vision but is obsessed with (copies of) her kids. They just couldn't be bothered to do it in the movie itself.

It's literally a sequel about a character who has appeared over 4 times prior, why exactly should it not be building upon those previous appearances?

And no Strange does take issue with Wong outranking him and only really acknowledges it and gives Wong respect for the end of the movie.

[Bolo]

Loki Season 2 has significantly less viewers https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...165021017.html

In the article from THR:

"Season two of the Marvel series premiered Oct. 5, and it gathered 446 million minutes of viewing time over its first three days and change"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...gs-1234979486/

"Loki, which premiered on Wednesday, June 9, also had two extra days to gather viewers as a result of Disney+ switching the release dates for its originals from Fridays to Wednesdays."

It's 5 days for the first season in comparaison to 3 days for the second one, logically the first season have more viewers.

[CTTT]

I still think it's fair to say they dropped the ball with her the way they adapted her, executed her character, and turned her into an in-name-only adaption.

Yeah it was disappointing that she shares a kiss with Steve and there's literally no follow up with that.

[Bolo]

Loki Season 2 has significantly less viewers https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...165021017.html

Which box office results? Quantumania was about a white man and flopped. Ragnarok, MoM, and No Way Home were about white men and successful. Wakanda Forever was about a Black woman and was successful.

Honestly for the moment all their movies are successful, and yes that includes Quantumania who have made the same numbers domestically than the second one despite to be in world post-covid, that internationally that the movie have been hurt (the theaters are near dead in Europe, China is no more a open market for Hollywood movies etc...), there are also the fact that most of these movies pre and post-covid don't have the same date (for Quantumania in February, who is a bad date in comparaison to the first two who were in July),not the same context etc... but that don't change the fact that they are still successful, for example most of their movies post-covid have made more than The Batman.

For the woke comment, honestly that just bullshit, I have seen called Quantumania a "woke" movie, it's just an excuse to target Marvel, not lot of peoples have called "woke" the gender fluid "Flash", Peacemaker to be bi-sexual and have diversity friends or Catwoman with the "White privilege" line etc...nobody have called to boycott DC, and it's not just about Marvel, the last Exorcist movie have been called "woke"simply because one short line who have been said like a joke, the true reason is simply their dislike for the Director of the movie (and that before the movie have been shooting), the problem is also the fact that now that just some weird peoples in youtube, it's near everywhere, in discussion about movies, or about box office, or articles from the "serious" trades; Marvel is woke whatever their movies.

The funny thing most of these problems and bad press will disappear (the so-called bad box offices), if Marvel put their movies exclusively for Disney plus, that have worked for Star Wars.

Just reading some of these posts, I noticed this Multiverse Saga introduced Riri, America, Shang Chi, Yelena, Kate Bishop, She-Hulk etc and we really don’t have a damn clue when we will be reacquainted with all of these characters again. Then let alone how many of them tie in to the main Kang narrative.

It’s just so many random plots going back and forth and no clear direction. Wild that the MCU really has become a live action comic book.

And it's for that I like them more than before, that look like a real comicbook with mutliples characters, for me Marvel destroyed Thanos in movie because he is too normalized in comparaison to the comics, it's for that I love phase 4/5, I can understand the confusion, recently I have seen an ad for the Marvels when they say litteraly that we need to see various movies and tv shows to understand this movie, I know lot of peoples have complained about that, the need to do the "homeworks", but for me that the missing part of the first 3 phases, to have multiples characters.

People forget about that.

When you got all those channels that need material-guess where they are going to do?

Lets look at how big the Law & Order Universe is it includes Chicago Fire universe as well. Yet nobody is complain about that.

How many shows did CSI spawn?




Probably not. It's folks needing to temper their expectations along with their bias towards certain properties.

Throwing fits or being all levels of toxic towards certain properties really need to stop.

Because in the long run it SHOULD benefit comic fans.

If tossing out Wandavision MAKES Marvel use Scarlet Witch is that a bad things???

Because the bottom line is not making material to appeal to toxic fans but offering more variety beyond X-Men and Peter Parker.

100% agree with you, I will just add that for Marvel Disney plus is more important than the box office, the streaming services made more money, it's for that they have recently announced that they want tv shows with mutliples seasons, it's for that they want to introduce Fox characters in their movies, because for someone who is a completist (and for understand everything), with Deadpool, Secret Wars etc... you will need to see all these x-men movies too, that force peoples to keep the subscriptions for to see everything etc...yes that hurt the box office, but ultimately that will make more moneys for them; specially now that most big movie theaters are in bankrupcy, not onely in debt, but in bankruptcy.