Disney-ABC request for popular Oscar category sparks Backlash

[skyvolt2000]

But is that a failure of the Academy or even of the people who make the movies that are nominated? Or does it mean that the general public's tastes have shifted away from the serious and artistic? It used to be the case that the Best Picture winner at the Oscars was a popular movie. I mean, Bridge Over the River Kwai, Silence of the Lambs, The Godfather, Rocky, etc. were all some of the highest-grossing films in the year that they won Best Picture.

The difference I believe is that people used to actually want to watch those kinds of movies. The general public used to be entertained by complex, character-driven dramas. Again, the films that garner nominations are good films that deserve all the praise they receive. So, we can't blame the Academy for wanting to reward those movies.

A failure of the Academy.
We have seen too many movies get Oscar buzz before they come out and in some case weeks after they do.

A failure of the theaters. Take Moonlight- in my city it did not show in black communities. In fact it showed in theaters where you had to RESERVE seats in advance and movie times were during work hours or limited showings. At theaters that are in hard to get to areas.

So when it got Oscar nominations-I had a LOT of folks ask what is Moonlight? That vampire show on CBS? The Omarion song from 2006? They didn't know.
Same with Fruitville Station-folks didn't know about it because it didn't show near them.

Good films deserve to get nominations-especially if they kill at the box office. It's insulting this Panther film makes a billion and we gotta make category for it.

But movies that no one has seen can get nominations before they come out? Something is not right.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I don't know if people will or will not remember "Moonlight". But I'm quite sure they will remember "Black Panther". People remember "Superman" (1978). They remember "Batman" (1989). That has nothing to do with being Oscar material but BP is the biggest superhero ever. There is no question it will be remembered.

BP is the biggest superhero ever? I mean, I liked the film a lot too, but even I have to say that might be an overstatement. People will probably remember it as part of the larger franchise that is the MCU, but idk if his film has been enough to catapult him to being the most popular superhero of all time. The Superman and Batman movies were met with a lot of fanfare and are still remembered today because Superman and Batman were both pop culture icons for literally decades before their respective films came out. Black Panther, although awesome and well deserving of popularity, was not as well known as Batman or Superman were.

A failure of the Academy.
We have seen too many movies get Oscar buzz before they come out and in some case weeks after they do.

A failure of the theaters. Take Moonlight- in my city it did not show in black communities. In fact it showed in theaters where you had to RESERVE seats in advance and movie times were during work hours or limited showings. At theaters that are in hard to get to areas.

So when it got Oscar nominations-I had a LOT of folks ask what is Moonlight? That vampire show on CBS? The Omarion song from 2006? They didn't know.
Same with Fruitville Station-folks didn't know about it because it didn't show near them.

Good films deserve to get nominations-especially if they kill at the box office. It's insulting this Panther film makes a billion and we gotta make category for it.

But movies that no one has seen can get nominations before they come out? Something is not right.

I get how that's a failure of the theaters, but how is that a failure of the Academy?? A lot of these movies get Oscar buzz because they are good movies. And they get the buzz before they come out because the critics/industry professionals who have seen the movies are talking about how good it is leading up to its official release. I mean, are you arguing that movies like Moonlight or any other Best Picture winner weren't good movies or didn't deserve the accolades they received?

There seems to be a lot of people here arguing that because a film is popular, then that automatically makes it good. Well, I think we've seen in many cases that that just isn't true. There are so many blockbuster franchises in Hollywood that are just bad. So, just because BP killed at the box office doesn't mean its automatically deserving of an Oscar. Part of the reasons that winning an Oscar is so meaningful in Hollywood is because its supposed to be a reward for artistic ingenuity regardless of the amount of money the film actually made at the box office.

I mean, how many Oscar acceptance speeches have we seen when the winner is thanking the Academy for recognizing this "small, little film that we didn't even know if it was going to be made" or something similar. That's the thing about these awards: its not about how many people saw it, its about whether the film is actually good or deserving.

BP will garner nominations if the Academy sees the artistic merit in the movie. And we can argue that they should, but even if they don't, its not that big of a deal.

[LordMikel]

BP is the biggest superhero ever? I mean, I liked the film a lot too, but even I have to say that might be an overstatement. People will probably remember it as part of the larger franchise that is the MCU, but idk if his film has been enough to catapult him to being the most popular superhero of all time. The Superman and Batman movies were met with a lot of fanfare and are still remembered today because Superman and Batman were both pop culture icons for literally decades before their respective films came out. Black Panther, although awesome and well deserving of popularity, was not as well known as Batman or Superman were.



I get how that's a failure of the theaters, but how is that a failure of the Academy?? A lot of these movies get Oscar buzz because they are good movies. And they get the buzz before they come out because the critics/industry professionals who have seen the movies are talking about how good it is leading up to its official release. I mean, are you arguing that movies like Moonlight or any other Best Picture winner weren't good movies or didn't deserve the accolades they received?

There seems to be a lot of people here arguing that because a film is popular, then that automatically makes it good. Well, I think we've seen in many cases that that just isn't true. There are so many blockbuster franchises in Hollywood that are just bad. So, just because BP killed at the box office doesn't mean its automatically deserving of an Oscar. Part of the reasons that winning an Oscar is so meaningful in Hollywood is because its supposed to be a reward for artistic ingenuity regardless of the amount of money the film actually made at the box office.

I mean, how many Oscar acceptance speeches have we seen when the winner is thanking the Academy for recognizing this "small, little film that we didn't even know if it was going to be made" or something similar. That's the thing about these awards: its not about how many people saw it, its about whether the film is actually good or deserving.

BP will garner nominations if the Academy sees the artistic merit in the movie. And we can argue that they should, but even if they don't, its not that big of a deal.

That comment reminds me of many years ago when the Ultraverse came out. My boss made the comment how the "industry" was saying how hot it is and why aren't sales higher? I was like, "no one cares or is interested." This led me to my theory, there is "Critic's hot" and then what really is hot. I think the Academy is having the same issue, they have "critics hot" and what really is hot.

[SpiderClops]

BP is the biggest superhero ever? I mean, I liked the film a lot too, but even I have to say that might be an overstatement. People will probably remember it as part of the larger franchise that is the MCU, but idk if his film has been enough to catapult him to being the most popular superhero of all time. The Superman and Batman movies were met with a lot of fanfare and are still remembered today because Superman and Batman were both pop culture icons for literally decades before their respective films came out. Black Panther, although awesome and well deserving of popularity, was not as well known as Batman or Superman were.



I get how that's a failure of the theaters, but how is that a failure of the Academy?? A lot of these movies get Oscar buzz because they are good movies. And they get the buzz before they come out because the critics/industry professionals who have seen the movies are talking about how good it is leading up to its official release. I mean, are you arguing that movies like Moonlight or any other Best Picture winner weren't good movies or didn't deserve the accolades they received?

There seems to be a lot of people here arguing that because a film is popular, then that automatically makes it good. Well, I think we've seen in many cases that that just isn't true. There are so many blockbuster franchises in Hollywood that are just bad. So, just because BP killed at the box office doesn't mean its automatically deserving of an Oscar. Part of the reasons that winning an Oscar is so meaningful in Hollywood is because its supposed to be a reward for artistic ingenuity regardless of the amount of money the film actually made at the box office.

I mean, how many Oscar acceptance speeches have we seen when the winner is thanking the Academy for recognizing this "small, little film that we didn't even know if it was going to be made" or something similar. That's the thing about these awards: its not about how many people saw it, its about whether the film is actually good or deserving.

BP will garner nominations if the Academy sees the artistic merit in the movie. And we can argue that they should, but even if they don't, its not that big of a deal.

Pretty sure he/she meant that BP is the biggest superhero movie ever. Which, speaking domestically, it is.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That comment reminds me of many years ago when the Ultraverse came out. My boss made the comment how the "industry" was saying how hot it is and why aren't sales higher? I was like, "no one cares or is interested." This led me to my theory, there is "Critic's hot" and then what really is hot. I think the Academy is having the same issue, they have "critics hot" and what really is hot.

Again, just because something is popular doesn't mean that its good. This generally means, and I swear I don't mean to sound snobby, that even if the general public likes something, its not necessarily great art. Big blockbuster action movies are pretty much the epitome of that. Again, the Oscars are meant to celebrate the more artistic side of filmmaking. So, from that standpoint, I'd say that movies like Moonlight or Shape of Water or Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri are definitely more "artistic" than most CBMs. And then of course, you have movies like Dark Knight and Logan that are both blockbusters and great art.

The MCU movies are deserving of the praise they get and even the nominations in the categories they get. But I don't know if they'd ever win something like Best Picture. In the end, most CBMs tend to follow a predictable pattern: here's the hero, here's the villain, and then about 40 minutes into the film, it looks like the villain has won the day and the hero spends about a half an hour living with the consequences of some mistake he made and then in some twist of fate, the tables have turned and the hero ends up victorious. Yes, a lot of the time that is entertaining and great fun to watch, but it is also a bit formulaic.

[Hall]

Pretty sure he/she meant that BP is the biggest superhero movie ever. Which, speaking domestically, it is.

The facts don't lie. it is the biggest money maker ever but awards should be judged by what is the best. Is it among the best comic films? not even close.

[SpiderClops]

The facts don't lie...

You should've stopped at that. I nor the original poster(Powerboy) were saying anything about if BP deserved Oscar or not. But BP will be remembered for decades to come. It is a cultural phenomena.

[Colossus1980]

You should've stopped at that. I nor the original poster(Powerboy) were saying anything about if BP deserved Oscar or not. But BP will be remembered for decades to come. It is a cultural phenomena.

It's not even in my top 10 CBM or probably top 20, but BP made a mockery of domestic records. It even beat Infinity War(domestic). Overrated? Yes. But damn did it make a mark on the box office which no superhero movie might ever topple. Avengers 4 might have a shot but if it fails to do so, I just can't see any other CBM reaching those numbers(domestic).

[LordMikel]

Again, just because something is popular doesn't mean that its good. This generally means, and I swear I don't mean to sound snobby, that even if the general public likes something, its not necessarily great art. Big blockbuster action movies are pretty much the epitome of that. Again, the Oscars are meant to celebrate the more artistic side of filmmaking. So, from that standpoint, I'd say that movies like Moonlight or Shape of Water or Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri are definitely more "artistic" than most CBMs. And then of course, you have movies like Dark Knight and Logan that are both blockbusters and great art.

The MCU movies are deserving of the praise they get and even the nominations in the categories they get. But I don't know if they'd ever win something like Best Picture. In the end, most CBMs tend to follow a predictable pattern: here's the hero, here's the villain, and then about 40 minutes into the film, it looks like the villain has won the day and the hero spends about a half an hour living with the consequences of some mistake he made and then in some twist of fate, the tables have turned and the hero ends up victorious. Yes, a lot of the time that is entertaining and great fun to watch, but it is also a bit formulaic.

My point is the reverse is also true. Just because critics say something is good doesn't mean it is, or that the masses care.

[Username taken]

Again, just because something is popular doesn't mean that its good. This generally means, and I swear I don't mean to sound snobby, that even if the general public likes something, its not necessarily great art. Big blockbuster action movies are pretty much the epitome of that. Again, the Oscars are meant to celebrate the more artistic side of filmmaking. So, from that standpoint, I'd say that movies like Moonlight or Shape of Water or Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri are definitely more "artistic" than most CBMs. And then of course, you have movies like Dark Knight and Logan that are both blockbusters and great art.

The MCU movies are deserving of the praise they get and even the nominations in the categories they get. But I don't know if they'd ever win something like Best Picture. In the end, most CBMs tend to follow a predictable pattern: here's the hero, here's the villain, and then about 40 minutes into the film, it looks like the villain has won the day and the hero spends about a half an hour living with the consequences of some mistake he made and then in some twist of fate, the tables have turned and the hero ends up victorious. Yes, a lot of the time that is entertaining and great fun to watch, but it is also a bit formulaic.

Exactly. Practically all superhero movies follow this trend and that's why it's hard for the Academy to take them seriously. Even BP follows this exact pattern to a T (i champion that movie for the political and social themes covered in the movie because it's plot structure is still a paint by numbers superhero movie) which is why a ton of folks (who aren't familiar with some of the very subtle themes in the movie) are pushing back against it (that and for some the fact that it's a black superhero movie).

But there's a point that must be emphasized, just because the public sees a movie over and over again doesn't mean its good. The people (like myself) that saw Moonlight probably won't forget it....ever. However, i watched Suicide Squad the same year and I can't even remember large parts of the movie.

[Marvelgirl]

What did Black Panther do that no other comics film did?

X-Men did what Black Panther did and did it 10x better. Much more compelling.
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I mentioned Batman Begins instead of The Dark Knight because it actually tackled street crime and police corruption that was more compelling than anything in Black Panther.

It is not being anti mcu, it is saying many other films are better than Black Panther, making Black Panther less worthy of Oscars.

Magneto and Professor X were the Robert De Niro and Al Pacino of comic movies. Both men were overlooked though it was obvious Stewart's snob in Logan was criminal. If Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen could not get Oscars, Black Panther won't unless The MCU overplays the politics of race.

[Marvelgirl]

No offense to the people who were for this, but thank god its getting delayed (and possibly canned). It was a horrible idea from the start. The CBMs that are worthy of a nomination will be nominated. There doesn't need to be a separate category for these films.

.

I don't think any CBM will get nominated ever again.

Disney bought Fox, so that means, there won't be another film similar to Logan. Not even Days of Future Past or X-Men 2, that were a step above the MCU movies since they were not as formulaic.

Warner Brothers DC extended universe is messy, they are just hoping Aquaman is average to keep things going. Unless Christopher Nolan and Alfonso Cuaron helms a DC movie. DC is on life support.

My money is on alternative comic movies for best picture. V for Vendetta or Sin City. It won't be Marvel or DC movies in the coming future.

[Username taken]

Nevermind.