The philosophy of Thanos and my issues with Thuggish Thanos

[MichaelC]

Probably a good place to ask.... but why did Lady Death change her skeleton form to a more human form when thanos got the gauntlet and he surpassed her (back in thanos quest)?

Is that her "true" form or is it becuse it's what thanos wanted her to look like? Since he later built a shrine in her honor which had both the human and the skelly look

Is it just me, or does Death seem hella passive-aggressive in this scene?

[Ichijinijisanji]

Is it just me, or does Death seem hella passive-aggressive in this scene?

death is not comforting

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

death is not comforting

I think she was angry at Thanos for becoming superior to her instead of being her equal.

[underfist]

To understand the whole issue we must start with Marvel: The End, because the trilogies are its sequels; however Tom Breevort has gone on record multiple times (the last of which after Infinity Revelation came out) saying that all The End product are non-canon. Indeed Starlin is the only one to have ever acknowledged the book's existence.

We then move on to the trilogies' prequel, Thanos vs Hulk, which contains one of the only two references to other authors Starlin has made; specifically it takes place during Waid's run on Indestructible Hulk. However, the Infinity event was also happening during this period (it was over long before any of Starlin's books came out) and it featured Thanos being imprisoned in amber up to Time Runs Out, meaning TvsH cannot happen before it, and Annihilus in his regular, non-amped, form which prevents Infinity from happening afterwards.

The other reference is to Secret Wars, specifically the death of the Living Tribunal and Adam Warlock replacing it is the central point of Infinity Finale. This vacancy is non-existant. According to Thanos himself in Ultimates #9 (right after his return to the multiverse, long before he could have left Earth to participate in Revelation) the Tribunal is alive again, merely still in the process of learning the rules of the new Multiverse.

There is more, Thor and Hulk appeared in Infinity Finale, but the former was not unworthy and had both arms, while the latter was his regular savage persona. This is impossible to reconcile with the rest of continuity without some egregious leaps in logic. Moreover, the fallout of this trilogy, namely Mephisto losing the ability to speak, Annihilus dying and Warlock's new situation are not referenced by any writer; they simply did not happen. Likewise, events such as Corvus Glaive's death at Thanos' own hand were ignored by Starlin. I understand you are not fond of Cates' Thanos miniseries, to be honest neither am I, but, unlike Starlin's work, it has been amply referenced by other writers.

Remember I said it's not the same multiverse? Infinity's presence in Infinity Conflict as "the embodiment of space" proves this, as she and Eternity have been decoupled by Ewing: she's the 7th multiverse (both spatially and temporally) while he's the 8th. They are connected in a way, since the 8th contains the events of the 7th, but she's dead (sorta) and translated to the Far Side, beyond the void outside the multiverse.

Other events such as Infinity Countdown show Adam Warlock being reborn and needing to retrieve the Soul Gem, both situations are incompatible with the trilogies. I could go on, but I think you understand my position.

[your_name_here]

Got to say...I don’t mind what Cates did with him. His Thanos, though still brutish, was smart enough to erase his own timeline.

[underfist]

Got to say...I don’t mind what Cates did with him. His Thanos, though still brutish, was smart enough to erase his own timeline.

If he was the one responsible at all, he did it by letting Gamora kill him (which is not how alternate timelines work in marvel so there’s probably something else at play); that’s not his greatest moment.

Also I’m given to understand King Thanos shows up in the last page of this week’s Guardians of the Galaxy.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

If he was the one responsible at all, he did it by letting Gamora kill him (which is not how alternate timelines work in marvel so there’s probably something else at play); that’s not his greatest moment.

Also I’m given to understand King Thanos shows up in the last page of this week’s Guardians of the Galaxy.

I think some of the inconsistencies are due to Brevoort not keeping Starlin informed about the more recent events in the other Marvel books and Starlin being aware his stories sort of exist in their own world. Starlin stuff is ignored because his version of Thanos as a introspective anti-hero can't be the scary edgy villain Marvel editors wants the character to be. I remember Starlin said in a interview that there are three different Thanos, the one from the MCU, the one from his OGN trilogy and the one Marvel wants, the one that appears in Thanos Rising, in Hickman's stories, in Bendis crap and the last ongoing by Lemire and Cates. I think Hickman built up on DnA's Thanos Imperative. Dan Abnett sort of regressed Thanos into a rampaging brute and death fetishist who forgot his character development, although he did defeat E-Vell and the Cancerverse in a smart way.

Yes, old future Thanos makes a surprise appearance in the last issue of Cates GOTG.

[underfist]

I think some of the inconsistencies are due to Brevoort not keeping Starlin informed about the more recent events in the other Marvel books and Starlin being aware his stories sort of exist in their own world.

I'm not disputing the concept; merely pointing out the incompatibility. I do think writers should keep Thanos on ice for a few years now that Infinity Wars and GotG killed him off; rethink how to use him (I did like his conversation with Anti-Man under Ewing, though).

On the other hand I'm not exactly broken up about this particular round of books being out of continuity; Infinity Conflict shows Starlin has taken up a couple bad habits and the farther we keep Above All Others from The One Above All the better.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Yeah, i do agree that Starlin storytelling has become stale

And i also agree Thanos should be put on a long hiatus since no one even tries to follow Starlin's voice..

[Agent Z]

A video examining Thanos by people who like and dislike him.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

I agree that the contradictions and self-loathing facets are lacking in the MCU version of Thanos. Still i think MCU Thanos was quite faithful to Starlin Thanos in Infinity War, to bad they dropped all the more compelling facets of the character in Endgame.

I also think Thanos was never meant by Starlin to be a villain that can be used often in mainstream comics like Kang and Doctor Doom.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Got to say...I don’t mind what Cates did with him. His Thanos, though still brutish, was smart enough to erase his own timeline.

That's actually the one thing i liked about Cates story. It was the edgy gore, Aaron's version of Death and power levels being all over the place (Black Bolt's screams killing celestials!? Wut?) that turned me off a bit.

[Ichijinijisanji]

I agree that the contradictions and self-loathing facets are lacking in the MCU version of Thanos. Still i think MCU Thanos was quite faithful to Starlin Thanos in Infinity War, to bad they dropped all the more compelling facets of the character in Endgame.

I also think Thanos was never meant by Starlin to be a villain that can be used often in mainstream comics like Kang and Doctor Doom.

well, in his methods he was in character-ish
but philosophically he's way different. He's missing the fantic love for a deity

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

well, in his methods he was in character-ish
but philosophically he's way different. He's missing the fantic love for a deity

Yeah, without Death telling him about the overabbundance of life and his pseudo-nihilism he's kind of a cosmic version of Ra's Al Ghul.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

It from another thread but it's Worth mentioning it here.

''That's only because under Starlin, everyone around Thanos becomes a damn idiot. That was the point of 3 Infinity crossovers, lol''

Thanos and Adam Warlock were the real main characters of the story, that's why Earth's heroes didn't have much importance to the story. Also Thanos (with the gems), Magus and the goddess were uberpowerful reality warpers, that's why they couldn't be beaten by the Avengers. It wasn't meant to be a crossover event about punching the bad guy.

The point of the Infinity crossovers was Thanos learning to move away from his obsession with trying to get Death to love him.

Starlin became stale and a one trick pony after the nineties and he never realized that. The best example of this is The End which was essentially a remixed Infinity Gauntlet with an evil pharaoh thrown into the mix. I still enjoyed it and loved the ending but i liked the Keith Giffen half of the Samaritan series better than the Starlin half.

I agreed with other Thanos fans that the OGN trilogy from 2015, was needed, because too many writers were messing Thanos up (especially Bendis and Aaron, and Hickman turned him into a reckless brute and generic space warlord akin to Despero and Mongul). But the Hulk vs Thanos mini and the Mother Entropy mini were mediocre at best in my opinion.

Many fan sites still firmly have the Infinity Gauntlet as one of the top 10 Marvel stories. Jim Starilin was such a huge part of marvel comics and what the company is....I can't hear anyone crap on him without feeling the need to defend the guy. Its a shame you hate his work, because its very possible none of us would be enjoying the cosmic side of Marvel or the MCU movies today if it were not for Jim Starlin.

Starlin really was the guy that got me into Marvel comics Beyond Spider-Man and Thor, my cousin had the tpb of his 70s run of Adam Warlock and his big event comics and honestly the contrasting between Adam Warlock's existentialism to Thanos' nihilism in regards to his greater themes of cosmic hippies was great to reread after reading existentialist authors and philosophers like Sarte, Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky and Camus (even though he never considered himself an existentialist) and see the arrogance, introspectional monologues and angst of his characters in regards to the events in his comics. I have alot of respect for him despite some of his tropes.