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  1. #61
    just kay Kay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    A guy I'm friends with on Youtube said that Ted Whitman is probably and black artist who was around actually during the golden age. I had to look it up, but he might Matt Baker.
    Ted Whitman is also a composite character. There's a scene in the Guggenheim museum when Ted's looking at "Shipboard Girl" and thinking Lichtenstein swiped him, but the original drawing is by Tony Abruzzo, not Matt Baker.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Yes, this. I am on FB with him too. On a thread where Harvey Kurtzmen was discussed, I said Chaykin had done a scene in Hey Kids about how Hugh Hefner treated Kurtzmen. Chaykin's response was "Excuse me?". So I corrected myself and said Kenmore and Grossberg. He gave me a thumbs up on that.

    I think the point is that he may have one character, say the stand in for Gil Kane or Neal Adams or Starlin do something that happened to another creator because it fits his narrative better.
    Ed Brubaker made similar "plausible deniability" in the back pages of Criminal when "Bad Weekend" was coming out in singles. The artist character is clearly inspired by Gil Kane. Of course, it makes sense seeing as a lot of these stories are played up for dramatic effect and I'm sure the families of these men probably wouldn't appreciate their loved ones being portrayed as "bad" people.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Ted Whitman is also a composite character. There's a scene in the Guggenheim museum when Ted's looking at "Shipboard Girl" and thinking Lichtenstein swiped him, but the original drawing is by Tony Abruzzo, not Matt Baker.
    Good point

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Also, Baker died in 59, while Whitman is still with us into the 90s or later.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Also, Baker died in 59, while Whitman is still with us into the 90s or later.
    Deaths were mentioned in this last issue. Do actual death date and characters' passing synch up at all?
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Deaths were mentioned in this last issue. Do actual death date and characters' passing synch up at all?
    I don't think they do.
    Wasn't there a scene with Sid Mitchell, aka Kirby, seeing the "X-Men" movie? Or something like that.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  7. #67
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    Read #6, it was a little anti-climatic. I don't know what I was expecting but the story just sorta stops rather than ends. Having said that, I wouldn't mind another volume if not two. There's another 30-ish years that are ripe for commentary. I'd like to see his take on the rise of the 80's indies, Gatlin working in Hollywood, and the weird state of the direct market now.
    Last edited by ed2962; 10-29-2021 at 07:44 PM.

  8. #68
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    I believe the seeming anti-climax of the story was sort of the whole point. The creators see what has become of the industry, and they feel disillusioned about their careers and lives. The saga ends not with a bang but with a whimper. (A whole lot of whimpering, actually.)

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seismic-2 View Post
    I believe the seeming anti-climax of the story was sort of the whole point. The creators see what has become of the industry, and they feel disillusioned about their careers and lives. The saga ends not with a bang but with a whimper. (A whole lot of whimpering, actually.)
    Yes, and even the newer guy(Neal Adams) realizes this.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Yes, and even the newer guy(Neal Adams) realizes this.
    Do you mean the guy at the convention at the end? I thought he was a stand in for John Byrne or Jim Lee. Byrne infamously talked about being happy to be a cog in the Marvel machine and suggested that if there's creator's rights there should be creator's "wrongs" but a couple of years after benefited greatly from new royalty programs at DC/Marvel and talked how editors at both companies tried to harness his vision and started to take a very individualistic stand.
    Last edited by ed2962; 10-31-2021 at 08:01 AM.

  11. #71
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    I've read old interviews with Neal Adams that suggested he got hip real quick to how exploitive the comic book industry could be. He was doing work in syndicated strips and commercial advertising art at the same that he was doing comic book stuff and saw that he was getting offered either benefits or better pay in those other industries.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Do you mean the guy at the convention at the end? I thought he was a stand in for John Byrne or Jim Lee. Byrne infamously talked about being happy to be a cog in the Marvel machine and suggested that if there's creator's rights there should be creator's "wrongs" but a couple of years after benefited greatly from new royalty programs at DC/Marvel and talked how editors at both companies tried to harness his vision and started to take a very individualistic stand.
    Tony Kramer, astonishing ability, too often tied to nonsensical junk. Sounds more like Adams to me. But could be others mixed in.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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