Every Hero's Romantic History

[Robanker]

With respect to Grayson, hey, there's a lot to like.

I think that says more about Crimson Fox than PG, we're talking about Karen's feelings towards others, not the other way around. Vartox counts in the same way. She has no interest in him as far as I've ever seen.

Honestly, I forgot about the Peyton thing until you asked because I normally list those guys you mentioned and call it a day but I dunno, you might have uttered a trigger phrase that made me remember that or I'm just thinking a lot about Starman right now. Anyway, we're derailing the thread into being about PG so I'll cut it short there.

[SelinaK12]

Billy had a girlfriend in earth-s Cissie Sommerly and in Post-Crisis he had short relationship with Courtney Whitmore (Stargirl).

Freddy had girlfriends when he played baseball, then later on dated Caitlyn (for a short time), then he had flirty moments with mary but nothing ever happened between them. But in Kingdom Come they were married and had a kid which is unkown but his superhero name was The Whiz.

[Frontier]

Billy had a girlfriend in earth-s Cissie Sommerly and in Post-Crisis he had short relationship with Courtney Whitmore (Stargirl).

Freddy had girlfriends when he played baseball, then later on dated Caitlyn (for a short time), then he had flirty moments with mary but nothing ever happened between them. But in Kingdom Come they were married and had a kid which is unkown but his superhero name was The Whiz.

What about Mary?

[SelinaK12]

What about Mary?

Mary didn't have many just a crush on Freddy but that's it and she was married to freddy in kingdom come

[Tzigone]

With respect to Grayson, hey, there's a lot to like.

I never liked the change that made Grayson a ladies man. Back on the 1980s and 1990s he was "only have sex with people you care about" person and it was a point of contrast between him and his friend Roy. And, of course, it got upped the point of him being a cheater, and I didn't like that either. I am, of course, leaving out the rape-by-deception, mentally influenced, etc. type things. Ollie used to be a totally faithful guy, too (though not averse to casual fun), but that went away too.

Mary didn't have many just a crush on Freddy but that's it and she was married to freddy in kingdom come

Yeah, I remember something in early post-COIE. And Cap getting all furious about it, which was very "yuck" to me because he has no business getting involved in his sister's age-appropriate, unabusive relationships. I think it was used to move Freddy out the comic and into another, but it's just been so long. There was definitely nothing romantic that I saw in them in the old 1940s comics. Fun bit was how Cap would be uncomfortable with romantic very attractive grown women, but Freddy enjoyed it.

First question: It's kind of traditional to think of Jimmy Olsen and Supergirl as having some sort of thing, especially in adaptations: Smallville, Supergirl. He even showed up in the Supergirl movie. Does that have any basis in the comics, I mean for the Kara/Linda Lee version?

There were some elseworlds/imaginary stories, I think. I know there was at least one where they married. I don't know of any in-continuity, but it's not my era.

[Robanker]

I never liked the change that made Grayson a ladies man. Back on the 1980s and 1990s he was "only have sex with people you care about" person and it was a point of contrast between him and his friend Roy. And, of course, it got upped the point of him being a cheater, and I didn't like that either. I am, of course, leaving out the rape-by-deception, mentally influenced, etc. type things. Ollie used to be a totally faithful guy, too (though not averse to casual fun), but that went away too.

Yeah, I remember something in early post-COIE. And Cap getting all furious about it, which was very "yuck" to me because he has no business getting involved in his sister's age-appropriate, unabusive relationships. I think it was used to move Freddy out the comic and into another, but it's just been so long. There was definitely nothing romantic that I saw in them in the old 1940s comics. Fun bit was how Cap would be uncomfortable with romantic very attractive grown women, but Freddy enjoyed it.

There were some elseworlds/imaginary stories, I think. I know there was at least one where they married. I don't know of any in-continuity, but it's not my era.

I'd argue Ollie is only written that way by a few writers (primarily Grell, Rucka and Winick) and I hate that take on him. There's little by those guys with Ollie I enjoy. Most other writers just ignore that, which is appreciated. With Dick, I think him being a bit of a flirt makes sense given his behavior from youth to adult. He's very glib, open and carefree. It doesn't help that DC tends to avoid his two biggest ships and their fandoms torpedo anyone that isn't their golden pairing, so Dick does tend to get a new love interest more often than most. I'm not crazy about Dick cheating on Kory in Nightwing Annual #2, but are there other instances that I'm unaware of?

[Tzigone]

With Dick, I think him being a bit of a flirt makes sense given his behavior from youth to adult. He's very glib, open and carefree

He was not at all glib, carefree, or open in the 1970s and 1980s stories - other characters talked about how intense, serious, and sometimes closed off he could be. I'd argue he was no more glib and carefree than Batman or Superman in the 1940s and 1950s. 1960s are a bit of a different story, at least when he's with the Teen Titans, and that I admit. And during the 1990s he was either with Kory in a serious relationship or pursuing a serious relationship with Barbara for most of them. He did flirt some and date Clancy, but even then, it was one woman, not a lot of them. Certainly, he was more into fun then (though still not carefree), but I don't see how that makes one a flirt. I'd argue it's Devin Grayson who brought a lot of change and influenced his character a lot. Unfortunately, most of it was in a direction I do not like at all. Feels & doesn't think (and that one I hate, because it, as it has increased over time, has led to the idea of him as "not a thinker" and all emotion and kinda not-that-bright), can't stay focused on one woman (or anything else, either) for very long, etc. A lot of his been back projected into his past by name, making him far less mature than he actually was when young. Other people love the modern take, though, so to each her/his own.

I'd argue Ollie is only written that way by a few writers (primarily Grell, Rucka and Winick) and I hate that take on him.

At least we can agree on that. I do not like sleazy Ollie. Or see what Dinah would like about him.


I've been trying to compile a list for Jimmy Olsen. Lucy Lane, of course. And the bronze age girlfriend he was dating one time when Lucy came around and he rejected reconciliation. Her initial were J.O., as I recall. But I can't quite remember the name. Don't know how serious she was, since I only read a couple issues, but she seemed pretty cool. Did he have any other significant love interests?

What about Zatanna? I know her manager Jeffrey, was interested, and one time it looked like that was going to happen, but then he was never seen again. Constantine, of course. Barry was into her in bronze age, after Iris died, but she was not receptive, from what I recall.

Edit: Found the name of the girl Jimmy was dating. Jennifer Owens.

[Robanker]

He was not at all glib, carefree, or open in the 1970s and 1980s stories - other characters talked about how intense, serious, and sometimes closed off he could be. I'd argue he was no more glib and carefree than Batman or Superman in the 1940s and 1950s. 1960s are a bit of a different story, at least when he's with the Teen Titans, and that I admit. And during the 1990s he was either with Kory in a serious relationship or pursuing a serious relationship with Barbara for most of them. He did flirt some and date Clancy, but even then, it was one woman, not a lot of them. Certainly, he was more into fun then (though still not carefree), but I don't see how that makes one a flirt. I'd argue it's Devin Grayson who brought a lot of change and influenced his character a lot. Unfortunately, most of it was in a direction I do not like at all. Feels & doesn't think (and that one I hate, because it, as it has increased over time, has led to the idea of him as "not a thinker" and all emotion and kinda not-that-bright), can't stay focused on one woman (or anything else, either) for very long, etc. A lot of his been back projected into his past by name, making him far less mature than he actually was when young. Other people love the modern take, though, so to each her/his own.

At least we can agree on that. I do not like sleazy Ollie. Or see what Dinah would like about him.


I've been trying to compile a list for Jimmy Olsen. Lucy Lane, of course. And the bronze age girlfriend he was dating one time when Lucy came around and he rejected reconciliation. Her initial were J.O., as I recall. But I can't quite remember the name. Don't know how serious she was, since I only read a couple issues, but she seemed pretty cool. Did he have any other significant love interests?

What about Zatanna? I know her manager Jeffrey, was interested, and one time it looked like that was going to happen, but then he was never seen again. Constantine, of course. Barry was into her in bronze age, after Iris died, but she was not receptive, from what I recall.

He wasn't in the NTT, certainly, but if I look at the throughline of his characterization, he's always had something to say in jest more often than not. Dick can brood like the best of them (hell, read Dixon's run) but even in his most serious runs, he still cracks wise when appropriate. To be fair, the '70s/'80s was when he started having friction with Bruce so it can be read as his rebellious period (and usually is). Looking at Dick's life, he follows a pretty standard maturing pattern for someone 12-28ish.

I really liked Clancy, and that's kind of what I mean. He flirts, almost instinctively, but I don't see him as a womanizer. He's just a friendly, funny dude, and when you're as good looking as he is it probably makes the people he's around interested and read more into what he does than intended. I was (apparently) pretty decent looking a few years back when working a stint at a corner store and on Halloween someone came in dressed as Zatanna, which I recognized and she apparently thought I was hitting on her by being friendly and saying I liked her costume. I imagine Dick has that situation on steroids, and I would say he can be pretty carefree at times. He flies without a net. He improvises more than he doesn't, at least on his solo adventures (he takes a more calculated role when he leads a team). He likes to taunt his foes. It doesn't mean he's an idiot or cad, but he generally behaves however he wants and knows he can adapt to the follow-through. That's more in line with what I mean by him being "glib, open and carefree." I don't take it as him being stupid, more that he's so talented he can just do it and still get by and why I think he works as the Robin who made good and the golden child; he makes it look easy. It looks like he's not thinking at all, even though he clearly is because he did it first, longest and is still the Robin they all measure up against with a reputation being untouchable comparatively. Even Robins who arguably surpassed him in the role (Tim), he's on a pedestal. Because he was and is that good. He's shown several times he's a lot smarter and a better detective than anyone gives him credit for. He was Batman and did a great job at it, for heaven's sake, being every bit a detective when necessary. He can do it if required, but his style is to go with the moment which fits the backstory of someone who was raised poor in a circus and performed without a safety net before becoming Robin. It works fine for me, as did him mellowing out and becoming a more serious figure under Wolfman and sometimes Dixon's pen (the latter of which still infused humor in his dialogue from time-to-time).

Yeah, Ollie/Dinah are among my favorites so anyone who gets in the way isn't welcome in my pull list.

Zee is a hot mess with her love life. Bruce, Constantine... She seems to chase guys who are unhealthy for her. There was Barry, but it went nowhere and now he's kind of a mess himself so maybe she should give him a ring. I think Dini was introducing someone to be a love interest for her in his solo for her, but I don't recall offhand.

I love Dick Grayson. Been a fan all my life, and I love his comics be it Dick Sprang Robin stuff, NTT, Dixon's Nightwing or beyond. He definitely has more to him than I abbreviated, but more than anything else, the Kory/Babs shipping war is the thing holding him back most.

[Frontier]

Zee is a hot mess with her love life. Bruce, Constantine... She seems to chase guys who are unhealthy for her. There was Barry, but it went nowhere and now he's kind of a mess himself so maybe she should give him a ring. I think Dini was introducing someone to be a love interest for her in his solo for her, but I don't recall offhand.

I assumed it would've been that police detective she was working with had the series continued.

[Robanker]

I assumed it would've been that police detective she was working with had the series continued.

That's the one I was thinking of. I think he was trying to set something up but, well, he couldn't meet the monthly schedule and the book got axed in the reboot.

[Slimybug]

Woah. When did Barry Allen have a thing for Zatanna?

[Timothy Hunter]

This is a very helpful ost from the Official Batman Chronology Project:

YEAR ONE
-Viveca Beausoleil (The Batman Chronicles #19)
-Julie Madison (Batman and the Monster Men, Batman and the Mad Monk, Batman #682, The Batman Files)
-Theodora Hackley (Bruce goes on one date with her.) (LOTDK #2)
-the shaman’s granddaughter (This is platonic.) (LOTDK #1, LOTDK #5)
-Selina Kyle (Batman and Catwoman have sexual tension in multiple issues.)

YEAR TWO
-Linda Page (The Batman Files)
-few dates with Selina Kyle (Long Halloween, The Batman Files)
-Summer Skye Simmonds (Journey into Knight)
-Jillian Maxwell (The Batman Files, LOTDK Halloween Special #1)
-Pamela Isley? (This is sort-of platonic.) (Hot House LOTDK #42-#43)
-unnamed date (opening of LOTDK #76)
-Mary McClellan? (Bruce marries her in an alternate reality where his parents survive) (LOTDK #76-#78)
-Dr. Lynn Eagles (LOTDK #65)

YEAR THREE
-Dr. Lynn Eagles (This lengthy relationship carries over into the new year.) (LOTDK #66-#68)
-Dinah Laurel Lance? (This is unsubstantiated but hinted at.) (The Batman Files)
-unnamed date (Batman: Ego)
-Selina Kyle (Bruce dates Selina for the whole rest of the year, is supposedly very serious about the relationship—though, in Batman #600, he rejects her advances to focus on his crimefighting, so perhaps he was partly seeing her to keep up playboy appearances? Selina mentions wanting to marry Bruce, so it seems she was quite serious.) (Long Halloween)

YEAR FOUR
-Selina Kyle (Bruce is all business this year, besides the ongoing Selina relationship.)

YEAR FIVE
-Selina Kyle (Bruce keeps dating Selina on-and-off; he must really like her!) (Long Halloween, Dark Victory)
-Rachel Caspian (“Batman Year Two”)

YEAR SIX
-Selina Kyle (Bruce and Selina break up early in the year.) (Batman: Dark Victory #5)
-Callie Dean (This is platonic.) (Batman Confidential #40-#43)
-unnamed date that goes with Bruce and Alfred to Haly’s Circus (Batman #436)
-supermodel Britanny St. James (Robin Annual #4)
-Catwoman (Selina and Bruce may have broken up, but Batman and Catwoman still have a ton of sexual tension whenever they meet each other.) (Batman #683, Batman Incorporated #1, The Batman Files)
-April Clarkson (Gotham after Midnight)

YEAR SEVEN
-Kelli (JLA 80-Page Giant #2)
-Catwoman (Bruce still does everything shy of having sex on rooftops with Catwoman. And for all we know, they do that.) (The Batman Chronicles #9)
-Batwoman aka Kathy Webb Kane (Batman Incorporated #4, Batman #682, The Batman Files)

YEAR EIGHT
-Batwoman aka Kathy Webb Kane (This relationship carries over from the prior year. Batman and Batwoman get engaged, but Batwoman breaks up Batman early in the year.) (Batman Inc. #4)
-unnamed girl (Bruce breaks her heart.) (Batman: Ego)
-Catwoman (Batman still flirts with Catwoman when they cross paths.) (Catwoman: Defiant)

YEAR NINE
-Silver St. Cloud (Detective Comics #469-#479, LOTDK #132-#136)
-Talia al Ghul (“Saga of Ra’s al Ghul,” Batman #330-#331)

YEAR TEN
-Talia al Ghul (Batman is “wedded to” Talia and they conceive a child.) (Batman: Son of the Demon)
-Natasha Knight (The Batman Files)

YEAR ELEVEN
-Catwoman (Detective Comics #569-#570)
-Vicki Vale (Bruce goes on a date with Vicki Vale. We can assume she’s on a sort of friends with benefits situation with him.) (Batman #402-#403)

YEAR TWELVE
-Sharon Scott (Bruce goes on one date with Sharon, a recurring character in Blue Devil) (Invasion tie-in)
-Cristina Llanos (Bruce has a very short fling with Cristina.) (Batman in Barcelona)
Note that this is probably the worst year of Modern Age Batman’s life. The Killing Joke and “Death in the Family” both happen. As far as I can tell, Bruce dates very little this year. Most Modern Age Batman stories don’t explore Bruce Wayne’s love life with much detail, so it’s possible he had some off-panel flings, but definitely nothing serious. I’d apply this same note to pretty much every other year, actually. After all, Bruce has to keep that playboy persona rolling. With Batman’s early years prior to Robin, I assume DC higher-ups felt inclined to introduce romantic subplots because the comics just featured Batman, Alfred, and a couple rogues. By the time Batman deals with a ridiculously large rogues gallery, has a bunch of superhero allies, and has an extensive Bat-Family, there is much less time to focus on romantic entanglements. This however, doesn’t mean Bruce doesn’t date/sleep around—but, as mentioned, we rarely see these dates. If we do see them, the women are usually unnamed and we aren’t given any details about them.


YEAR THIRTEEN
-Lois Lane? (It’s implied in “Hush”—specifically Batman #611—that Bruce has a relationship with Lois at some point. This could go pretty much anywhere. Placement is speculative, but after “Dark Knight Over Metropolis.”)
-Vicki Vale (Bruce starts to date Vicki in a more serious manner.) (Gotham Gazette Batman Alive? #1, Batman #475, Detective Comics #642, Batman #746)

YEAR FOURTEEN
-Dr. Shondra Kinsolving (“Knightfall”)

YEAR FIFTEEN
-Vesper Fairchild (Batman #540-#541, The Spectre Vol. 3 #51, Batman #544-#546, Batman #600)
-Yuko Yagi (Batman: Chilld of Dreams)

YEAR SIXTEEN
-Talia al Ghul (Bruce spends a sad night with Talia, who takes care of him.) (No Man’s Land #0)
-Vesper Fairchild (It is implied in multiple issues that Bruce is that he’s still dating Vesper this year.)
-multiple random dates (It is implied that Bruce dates around to keep up appearances for his playboy lifestyle.) (JLA #47-#54)
Note that this is a super intense year for Batman, with “No Man’s Land” and “Tower of Babel.”

YEAR SEVENTEEN
-Sasha Bordeaux (Bruce develops a platonic liking to his bodyguard, Sasha. She’s also deeply in love with him. Bruce won’t reveal his positive feelings to her until the end of “Bruce Wayne: Murderer?”.) (Detective Comics #775)
-Vesper Fairchild (Yes, Bruce is still dating Vesper, until he breaks up with her in the coldest possible way—by inviting her over while hanging out with a bunch of girls with whom he’s playing Marco Polo in the pool. This is also another hint that, while we may not see it, Bruce is very much keeping his playboy persona alive with more casual side relationships.) (Detective Comics #764)

YEAR EIGHTEEN
-Sasha Bordeaux (This is still platonic, although Bruce and Sasha share an intense discussion about their relationship.) (“Bruce Wayne: Murderer?”)
Note that we don’t Bruce dating anyone this year. This is another intense year with “Bruce Wayne: Murderer?”, so Bruce has got a lot on his plate.

YEAR NINETEEN
-Wonder Woman (“The Obsidian Age”) (JLA #90-100)
-Catwoman (Bruce enters a serious relationship with Catwoman again. Although their relationship is intense they break up. They still date and have sex occasionally after the break up.) (“Hush”, Catwoman Vol. 3 #32)

YEAR TWENTY
-Black Canary (Batman kisses Black Canary.) (Birds of Prey #90)
-Dr. Amina Franklin (“Grotesk”)
-Sasha Bordeaux (Bruce finally kisses Sasha Bordeaux.) (The OMAC Project #1-#3)
-Catwoman (Bruce still occasionally has sex with Catwoman.) (Catwoman Vol. 3 #39)

YEAR TWENTY-ONE
-Karrie Bishop (Bruce dates Karrie.) (Detective Comics #822)
-Lilith Rutledge (LOTDK #207-#211 aka “Darker than Death”)
-Zatanna Zatara (Detective Comics #833-#834)
-Kay Scott (Detective Comics #835-#836)
-Bekka (Superman/Batman #37-#42)
-Jezebel Jet (Batman #655-#658)
-multiple unnamed dates (There are hints of Bruce still living that playboy lifestyle off-panel.) (Batman #655-#658)

YEAR TWENTY-TWO
-Jezebel Jet (Bruce’s relationship with Jezebel continues.) (“Batman RIP”)
-Una Nemo (Batman and Robin #18)
-Annie (A time-displaced Bruce technically dates her in the year 1640, but whatever.) (Return of Bruce Wayne #2)

YEAR TWENTY-THREE
-Marsha Lamarr (Again, a time-displaced Bruce technically dates her in 1971, but whatever.) (Return of Bruce Wayne #6)
-Selina Kyle (Bruce still has sexual and romantic encounters with Selina.) (“House of Hush”, Batman Inc, Batman 80 Page Giant 2011 #1)
-Dawn Golden (The Dark Knight #1-5)
-Talia al Ghul (Bruce, heartbroken by Talia’s evil ways, kisses her while Gotham burns.) (Batman Inc #11-#13)

Overall list of love interests/dates: Viveca Beausoleil, Julie Madison, Theodora Hackley, the shaman’s granddaughter, Selina Kyle, Linda Page, Summer Skye Simmonds, Jillian Maxwell, Pamela Isley, Dr. Lynn Eagles, Dinah Laurel Lance, unnamed date from Ego, Lois Lane, Rachel Caspian, Callie Dean, Britanny St. James, April Clarkson, Kelli, Kathy Webb Kane, another unnamed girl from Ego, Silver St. Cloud, Talia al Ghul, Natasha Knight, Vicki Vale, Dr. Shondra Kinsolving, Vesper Fairchild, Yuko Yagi, Sasha Bordeaux, Wonder Woman, Dr. Amina Franklin, Karrie Bishop, Lilith Rutledge, Zatanna, Kay Scott, Bekka, Jezebel Jet, Una Nemo, Annie, Marsha Lamarr, Dawn Golden

Most important love interests/dates: Catwoman (Selina Kyle), Talia al Ghul, Rachel Caspian, Batwoman (Kathy Webb Kane), Silver St. Cloud, Vicki Vale, Dr. Shondra Kinsolving, Sasha Bordeaux, Dawn Golden

Engaged to: Julie Madison, Rachel Caspian, Batwoman (Kathy Webb Kane), Talia al Ghul, Shondra Kinsolving (Bruce tried to propose to her but was unable to)

Married to: Talia al Ghul (this “wedding” was a League of Assassins thing, so likely not a legal marriage

[Slimybug]

Dang, son! That's a lot of history to unpack!

[Slimybug]

Can anyone tell me when Raven and Beast Boy got together, and that whole history there? From what I've read, it seems pretty unpopular.

[John Venus]

What about Zatanna? I know her manager Jeffrey, was interested, and one time it looked like that was going to happen, but then he was never seen again. Constantine, of course. Barry was into her in bronze age, after Iris died, but she was not receptive, from what I recall.

Zee is a hot mess with her love life. Bruce, Constantine... She seems to chase guys who are unhealthy for her. There was Barry, but it went nowhere and now he's kind of a mess himself so maybe she should give him a ring. I think Dini was introducing someone to be a love interest for her in his solo for her, but I don't recall offhand.

Her love interest in her solo series was named Dale Colton. They never got involved in the series but I think they would have had the series not been cancelled.

Besides Bruce and Constantine, we can count Dick Grayson as a love interest thanks to YJ making her a part of his harem. Barry Allen (like mentioned) and her had a thing during the Satellite era but even back then it was implied that Barry was still grieving over losing Iris and approaching an early mid life crisis and Zatanna was just somebody he could vent to. There is a panel of them kissing, which I'm sure is not from JL but I think it was part of an act/ruse. (Side note: I do sometimes wish the tv show had brought her in and explored the Barry/Zee romance. It would have been fun to watch in a train wreck kind of way.)

There was an old Brave and Bold issue where she kissed Ollie but that wasn't a genuine attraction; she was fighting some bad guys and decided to summon the fighting power of Black Canary (for her own amusement) which ended up making her personality like Canary's as well along with her preferences. Hence the brief attraction/misunderstanding.

In the Detroit era, she and Vixen were competing over a man named Dale Gunn. A plot line which I think only happened for the same reason Jon Favreau cast Sophia Vegara and Scarlet Johannsson in the role of his character's ex-wife and girlfriend respectively in the movie Chef.

In Zatanna: Come Together mini series, she slept with a guy named Josh. Probably one of the most emotionally healthiest dude she ever been with. However, his mother was a witch and dies in the climax helping Zee fight the bad guy and it's implied the relationship ended there.

In Paul Dini's Zatanna: Everyday Magic, he shows her going on dates regularly, casually sleeps with one guy, another guy tries to get her to misuse her magic at a restaurant so she leaves him to do the dishes then another guy tries to get her to take coerce her similarly at a carnival and finds himself banished with three other guys in another dimension with 3 other guys. It was fun. Constantine is in it too but their relationship is depicted as purely platonic in it and she ends up rescuing him from trouble instead of the other way around. She wasn't easy to manipulate, emotionally dependent on someone else or weakness for bad boys under Dini's pen.

In Morrison's Seven Soldiers, she accidentally ends up summoning a demon while reeling from PTSD post-Identity Crisis, drunk out of her mind and uttering 'gnirb em eht nam fo ym smaerd'.