Carol Danvers and a lack of a Rogues Gallery.

[Alpha Male]

I been doing my homework on Carol Danvers and noticed something throughout her different series. She doesn't have a Rogues Gallery. There isn't one villain you can point to and say that's a Carol Danvers villain. The only series that mattered in that regard was Ms Marvel Volume One. The other subsequent books that featured her didn't have any defining foes for her. Now someone can say "What about the Brood?" OK, The Brood had their run ins with Danvers but they are mostly known as X-Men Villains.

With the movie coming out, why doesn't Marvel get a writer who will work on developing foes for her? It seems that's the biggest rut for her to date. Carol Danvers needs like Peter David or a Grant Morrison type to get this going but so far I see no writer whether they are currently writing her or not stepping up. Why is that?


What villains would you like to see in a Carol Danvers book? Should they just be from outer space or from some other dimension? Should they be more earth bound?

[Username taken]

It's one of the problems I've had with Captain Marvel's books.

She doesn't have any rogues gallery and recent writers don't really seem interested in giving her some.

Even the supporting characters in her books haven't been interesting. I would actually like the writers to create new villains for Carol and establish (1) major foe for her.

[CRaymond]

I think first you need to establish her essential conflict... and then develop villains that challenge that. The X-Men's essential conflict is acceptance versus dehumanization. That's why Magneto is such a good villain, he flips the script by dehumanizing Humanity, and discrediting acceptance. The Sentinels, the Brood, the U-Men all dehumanize the X-Men into JUST their powers-as-dangerous-weapons. The Hellfire Club ALREADY has acceptance, but through underhanded duplicitous means.

I'm not an expert on Captain Marvel, though I'm excited for her upcoming film. What makes her a unique hero?

[Mike_Murdock]

The rogues that seem to return the most for Carol are villains created by Claremont that were co-opted into the X-Men (Mystique, Death Bird)/villains Carol encountered in Claremont's X-Men in the first place (The Brood) or villains that were Mar-Vell villains (Yon-Rogg and Min-Erva come to mind). The only other villain that seems to have any sticking power with Carol is Moonstone and that's because of Dark Reign.

Other villains have been introduced, but seem to have been for a specific story. Honestly, as much as I like Kelly Sue DeConnick's run, no one is standing out as a villain. I liked Ghazi Rashid from Brian Reid's run, but it felt like that story wrapped itself up fairly well and I don't anyone else has any more stories they want to tell with those characters.

[Triniking1234]

I feel James Robinson would be a great match for Carol if you want villains for her.

I remember during her last run as Ms. Marvel, Mystique and Moonstone were prominent and Secret Invasion added some Mar-vell elements. There was Yon-Rogg from the Avengers Assemble crossover. Then nothing happens.

[responsarbre]

I think Mike_Murdock covered the gist of it. Of course, this is a problem for most heroes not named Spider-Man.

I think Brian Reed was building the Storyteller into being a recurring villain for her (there was a weird amount of reality warping in his otherwise very grounded stories). And obviously, Kelly Sue DeConnick intended for Grace Valentine become a Lex Luthor/Veronica Cale figure for Carol, but it's hard to make a new archnemesis catch on when you only use them in a couple of stories. Toxic Doxie is probably my single favorite DeConnnick creation, and I'm glad KSD used her in Captain Marvel eventually, but I wish that she had been a bigger, more important villain for Carol. I'd like to see them face off again.

[Kaijudo]

Given her rise in prominence in the years since her debut, I'd personally pull Mystique away from the X-offices and set her up as Carol's main villain. If nothing else, you have an interesting balance between the two with Danvers representing the ideal of what the American military should be while Mystique represents the more morally nebulous black ops/espionage side of the government.

[Anthony W]

The only other villain that seems to have any sticking power with Carol is Moonstone

By the way does anyone actually believe that Captain Marvel can defeat Moonstone? I find it hard to believe that hot mess Captain Marvel wouldn't fall prey to Moonstone's mix of power and understanding of human behavior and get shut down. Good thing she is the hero.

[CRaymond]

If nothing else, you have an interesting balance between the two with Danvers representing the ideal of what the American military should be while Mystique represents the more morally nebulous black ops/espionage side of the government.

That would make Mystique a rival type villain... at first I was against this notion, but I think given how often Mystique's been coerced into working as a secret agent for various agencies and Xavier and others... it kind of makes sense. It also grounds Carol into conflicts she can't muscle or powerblast her way out of. She has to trust a woman who's ultimately untrustworthy.

I like it, but it's still only one kind of recurring conflict. If Mystique is Carol's Joker, who is her Ra's Al Ghul? Who is her Catwoman? Who are her foes that keep her busy in space? Who are her foes that take her to other countries?

[MichaelC]

By the way does anyone actually believe that Captain Marvel can defeat Moonstone? I find it hard to believe that hot mess Captain Marvel wouldn't fall prey to Moonstone's mix of power and understanding of human behavior and get shut down. Good thing she is the hero.

If anything I thought the opposite: I could never buy that a psychiatrist is such a good match for a soldier in direct combat. Sure, I can see a scheme of Moonstone beating Danvers, but straight-combat should be a curbstomp in Danver's favor.

[Digifiend]

Part of the problem is that when she started out, they simply gave her Spider-Man's supporting cast. She worked at the Bugle. MJ and Peter even appeared in the first issue, and even the villain she fought - Scorpion - was a Spidey rogue!

[Kaijudo]

That would make Mystique a rival type villain... at first I was against this notion, but I think given how often Mystique's been coerced into working as a secret agent for various agencies and Xavier and others... it kind of makes sense. It also grounds Carol into conflicts she can't muscle or powerblast her way out of. She has to trust a woman who's ultimately untrustworthy.

I like it, but it's still only one kind of recurring conflict. If Mystique is Carol's Joker, who is her Ra's Al Ghul? Who is her Catwoman? Who are her foes that keep her busy in space? Who are her foes that take her to other countries?

Given that she's kind of a cosmic character, who's to say that a "Ra's Al Ghul" figure and someone who keeps her busy in space have to be mutually exclusive? If anything, reclaim Deathbird and make her a cosmic Ra's Al Ghul figure. And looking back at the original Ms. Marvel series, maybe Hekate could be brought back as a kind of foreign element that pulls Carol out of the country on a regular basis.

As for a Catwoman type, somebody with whom there's a flirtatious give-and-take to their interactions...there really isn't anyone who's "indigenous" to the Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel series that fits that bill. A little-used villain from another series could be brought into the fold and made to play that role (similar to how the X-books cribbed Mystique and Deathbird). Of course, it'd have to be someone charming enough to catch Carol's attention, powerful enough to give her a run for her money, and whose actions aren't so atrocious that Carol being attracted to him would be viewed negatively towards her character. Hmmmm...

[theoneandonly]

it is probably mystique who is her Numéro uno and it was referred to in miss Marvel when peter asked her about it and of course rogue though it's complicated.

[Anthony W]

If anything I thought the opposite: I could never buy that a psychiatrist is such a good match for a soldier in direct combat. Sure, I can see a scheme of Moonstone beating Danvers, but straight-combat should be a curbstomp in Danver's favor.

Have you read Kurt Busiek's Thunderbolts? Moonstone is a force to be reckoned with while Captain Marvel is just....force. Captain Marvel needs more time with Kurt Busiek, look at what he was able to do with Moonstone.

[Mike_Murdock]

By the way does anyone actually believe that Captain Marvel can defeat Moonstone?

I believe she not only can defeat Moonstone, she has defeated Moonstone.

IIRC, Hawkeye has defeated Karla Sofen, so she's no Doctor Doom here.