Uncanny X-men Disassembled coming in November

[TheCape]

Perhaps a separate 'Emma & Cyclops are EEEEEVIL!1!' thread would work best for some of you and this derailed train of thought.

I got my share when we talked about the Red Annual, i'm stayimg out of this one.

[yogaflame]

Gambit was absolutely a replacement for Longshot, but it could be said Longshot was something of a replacement for Nightcrawler in the first place! (Dashing, good-hearted, strange number of fingers, agile, quick, ladysman). The point still stands, though.

Honestly, I think at this point the Claremont cast will always be the most important because they are the most important to the storied history of the franchise purely in numerical and logistical terms now. How many pages out of the sum total of X-canon does Nature Girl appear in? How many does Rogue? Nature Girl has almost zero chance in hell for ever replacing Rogue in terms of popularity.

Now, sure, every once in a while a new character can latch on(X-23 has certainly found favor, even if I detest her, I will admit), but to be fair she is just an extension of Logan himself, so it can be understood. I think the way forward is to carefully cultivate the character arcs editorially, because you'll never have a Claremont situation where one writer can build a huge interconnecting narrative for 17 years again in this modern industry. Make the stories good, make them relevant, make them dramatic. You start with the popular ones, and then spin off as the brand is reestablished, but keep the quality up.

When Claremont did New Mutants, he didn't just do a watered down version of X-Men. It was just as good(if not better in some ways) as the main book, but in a different way. Same with Wolverine, same with Excalibur. And it all made sense relative to each other(I mean, dang, the Uncanny adventures in Brood Saga and the New Mutants intro synch up perfectly, even to the extent of the X-Men tussling with the newly formed team when they arrive at the end of their arc to deal with Brood-infected Xavier who has been interacting with the New Mutants. Like, it's perfect if you were reading the two books simultaneously, in real time)!

Continuity is what makes people invested. If you are too loose with continuity, and the characters vary soooo much between writers, between arcs, there's no reason to care. And they have to stop with this monolithic team book format, where only one character does anything important and the rest are just wallpaper. Every piece on the board should have a role, so many people can enjoy the same story following their individual favorites.

In short, do better Marvel!

[PsychoEFrost]

Yeah, it's sad the discussion always derails in this crap, almost on every thread, by the same people.

even in a thread that has nothing to do with scott, jott or scemma. (none of which is possible right now and haven't been a thing for years)

I don't think they'll be satisfied until Scott and Emma's reputations are ruined and they're dragged through the streets.

Oh wait... editorial basically did that for the last two years. So I dunno what will appease them at this point.

[phoenixzero23]

I don't think they'll be satisfied until Scott and Emma's reputations are ruined and they're dragged through the streets.

Oh wait... editorial basically did that for the last two years. So I dunno what will appease them at this point.

Sadly, nothing. I mean marvel even killed Scott, jott, scemma, emma is out of the books and for some reason people keep fighting for nothing, nothing will ever appease them.

I guess it's fun to hate, nobody wins anything from that. Specially for things nobody here has any control over.
it's just hate for the sake of hate.

[Sundowhn]

Kitty > Jubilee works perfectly but I always saw Gambit as a Longshot replacement: the glowing eyes linked to his long forgotten hypnotic charm, throwing objects with deadly accuracy only these could explode, his gymnastic skill, loving the ladies, etc.

In powers, yes, I'd agree with you. I think Claremont was referring to their roles on the team, at the time. This was post Mutant Massacre, where Kitty was a permanent ghost and Nightcrawler was in a coma. Jubilee was the young female POV character to tag along behind Logan and Gambit was the fun-loving, flirty guy keeping things from being too serious.

Nightcrawler morphed over the years to be more of a moral compass and everyone's friend, but he didn't really start out that way.

[Disciple of Redd]

For the sake of argument, take the Emma/Scott affair and make Emma a male and Scott a female. So the male psychic uses his powers to encourage/force an affair with the traumatized woman.

If that got printed, the male in that situation would be pure toxic grade material. Editorial wouldn't be able to kill the character dead fast enough. Anyone who okayed the story would be crucified to a level that would make Jesus Christ Himself ask them to tone it down.

Yet in this case, the victim is blamed as much, if not more so, then the perpetrator. What the actual f***?!?!

Ooooh she made him have sex with her?

Lolololol

[TheCape]

Gambit was absolutely a replacement for Longshot, but it could be said Longshot was something of a replacement for Nightcrawler in the first place! (Dashing, good-hearted, strange number of fingers, agile, quick, ladysman). The point still stands, though.

Honestly, I think at this point the Claremont cast will always be the most important because they are the most important to the storied history of the franchise purely in numerical and logistical terms now. How many pages out of the sum total of X-canon does Nature Girl appear in? How many does Rogue? Nature Girl has almost zero chance in hell for ever replacing Rogue in terms of popularity.

Now, sure, every once in a while a new character can latch on(X-23 has certainly found favor, even if I detest her, I will admit), but to be fair she is just an extension of Logan himself, so it can be understood. I think the way forward is to carefully cultivate the character arcs editorially, because you'll never have a Claremont situation where one writer can build a huge interconnecting narrative for 17 years again in this modern industry. Make the stories good, make them relevant, make them dramatic. You start with the popular ones, and then spin off as the brand is reestablished, but keep the quality up.

When Claremont did New Mutants, he didn't just do a watered down version of X-Men. It was just as good(if not better in some ways) as the main book, but in a different way. Same with Wolverine, same with Excalibur. And it all made sense relative to each other(I mean, dang, the Uncanny adventures in Brood Saga and the New Mutants intro synch up perfectly, even to the extent of the X-Men tussling with the newly formed team when they arrive at the end of their arc to deal with Brood-infected Xavier who has been interacting with the New Mutants. Like, it's perfect if you were reading the two books simultaneously, in real time)!

Continuity is what makes people invested. If you are too loose with continuity, and the characters vary soooo much between writers, between arcs, there's no reason to care. And they have to stop with this monolithic team book format, where only one character does anything important and the rest are just wallpaper. Every piece on the board should have a role, so many people can enjoy the same story following their individual favorites.

In short, do better Marvel!

I do agreed with this, but at this point i'm not sure if Marvel cares about continuity too much, a pandora box was open in the 2000s and they don't see to eager in closing it.

I wish that they cut the bullshit and just stop pretending that contnuity is still important, at least it would be honest.

[PsychoEFrost]

Ooooh she made him have sex with her?

Lolololol

Well, controlling people is in her power set, especially in the mental world where the entire affair took place.

But by all means, keep blaming the victim in what was borderline sexual assault. That always goes over real well.

[PsychoEFrost]

Sadly, nothing. I mean marvel even killed Scott, jott, scemma, emma is out of the books and for some reason people keep fighting for nothing, nothing will ever appease them.

I guess it's fun to hate, nobody wins anything from that. Specially for things nobody here has any control over.
it's just hate for the sake of hate.

I've noticed that on the internet a lot. People don't want to be happy, or right, or enjoying themselves. They feel better when other people feel worse. I don't understand that mindset.

[Disciple of Redd]

Well, controlling people is in her power set, especially in the mental world where the entire affair took place.

But by all means, keep blaming the victim in what was borderline sexual assault. That always goes over real well.

There was no sexual assault victim in the comic. I can't alter my comments around whatever happened in headcanons.

[yogaflame]

I do agreed with this, but at this point i'm not sure if Marvel cares about continuity too much, a pandora box was open in the 2000s and they don't see to eager in closing it.

I wish that they cut the bullshit and just stop pretending that contnuity is still important, at least it would be honest.

With the movie rights coming back home, with a new editor for the comics, and now a relaunch of Uncanny, I hope they do cut the bs and bring back an X-Men franchise I can be proud to be a fan of again!

[PsychoEFrost]

There was no sexual assault victim in the comic. I can't alter my comments around whatever happened in headcanons.

If you want to be deliberately obtuse...

Under every single psychiatric definition, a person suffering from a severe mental or emotional impairment cannot legally consent. Scott was clearly suffering from PTSD, a severe impairment. Therefore, he is not healthy enough mentally or emotionally to consent to a relationship, meaning Emma sexually assaulted him.

[Havok83]

Disagree. X-Men, and comics in general, are a serial genre. You get to know the characters and care about them, and when they're replaced, what you were interested in is gone. Wolverine, Kitty, Rogue, Cable -- those guys happened when the franchise was still establishing itself. Gambit and Jubilee were originally designed as replacements, per Claremont, for Nightcrawler and Kitty. Gambit and Jubilee stuck around because they were significantly different enough in power set and visuals to peacefully coexist.

X-23 is the only break out star in the past 20 years.

Jubilee was created as a replacement for Boom Boom. Claremont wanted to write her over in Uncanny but Louise wouldnt let go of her (as she had her over in X-Factor and New Mutants). She told him to go make his own character and then we got Jubilee whom was very similar to early Boom Boom

[Sundowhn]

Jubilee was created as a replacement for Boom Boom. Claremont wanted to write her over in Uncanny but Louise wouldnt let go of her (as she had her over in X-Factor and New Mutants). She told him to go make his own character and then we got Jubilee whom was very similar to early Boom Boom

I think you're talking power set again, not role in the X-Men core team, because Boom Boom never had a role in the core team.

[Heroine Addict]

I'm ALL for the X-books being an ongoing, interconnected...

... soap opera like ensemble, again.