Just when will DC allow Barry to see just what Flashpoint has cost him ?

[Buried Alien]

What Barry has lost, was his sense of heroism.
He was the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He wasn't motivated by the death of his mum or wrongly imprisoned dad.
He was also a scientist. He was SMART.
While the Rebirth Flash title has been fairly decent, when did we last see an INTELLIGENT Barry?

CONVERGENCE, and guess what? That was Pre-COIE Earth-One (i.e. Silver/Bronze Age) Barry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Right before Flashpoint, Barry Allen was his crappiest version ever. And before that he was dead.

Barry lost nothing with the reboot, seriously.

And, again, in my opinion, he did. He literally lost his whole marriage and his families, both the Flash family and the one he built with Iris. That is most definitely something...

[MajorHoy]

What Barry has lost, was his sense of heroism.
He was the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He wasn't motivated by the death of his mum or wrongly imprisoned dad.
He was also a scientist. He was SMART.
While the Rebirth Flash title has been fairly decent, when did we last see an INTELLIGENT Barry?

But he lost much of that by Geoff Johns' retconning Barry's past well before Flashpoint; it's hard to define what Flashpoint itself actually took away from Barry beyond having already been married.

Barry, like all characters after Flashpoint, lost his entire life. And that includes his marriage to Iris. Yes, they can get re-married, but he still lost everything that happened in the previous Marriage.

But, again, how much of that previous life wasn't already twisted/changed by Geoff Johns prior to Flashpoint?

[Buried Alien]

It's hard to pinpoint the exact point when Barry's past was changed from its original Silver/Bronze Age configuration to the one that we became aware of as of FLASH: REBIRTH (2009): did the switch take place even before he emerged from the Speed Force in FINAL CRISIS, or did he come out of the Speed Force with his original past intact, only to have it changed following Eobard Thawne's resurrection by the White Lantern at the end of BLACKEST NIGHT?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[KC]

But, again, how much of that previous life wasn't already twisted/changed by Geoff Johns prior to Flashpoint?

Most of it. Most of Barry's pre-COIE stories still happened during Johns' run. COIE twisted/changed just as much or even more about Barry's life than Johns did.

[BohemiaDrinker]

What Barry has lost, was his sense of heroism.
He was the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He wasn't motivated by the death of his mum or wrongly imprisoned dad.
He was also a scientist. He was SMART.
While the Rebirth Flash title has been fairly decent, when did we last see an INTELLIGENT Barry?

But, again, that was Flash: Rebirth, not Flashpoint,

Barry, like all characters after Flashpoint, lost his entire life. And that includes his marriage to Iris. Yes, they can get re-married, but he still lost everything that happened in the previous Marriage.

What he "lost" here was the murder of his wife, his trial and his death. Barry actually gained a lot from the reboot, no matter how attached to continuity some of us might be. His story and status quo are way better, from his POV.

[JackDaw]

But, again, that was Flash: Rebirth, not Flashpoint,



What he "lost" here was the murder of his wife, his trial and his death. Barry actually gained a lot from the reboot, no matter how attached to continuity some of us might be. His story and status quo are way better, from his POV.

Well if we take as starting point that he was “dead”...then anything is an improvement.

But if start point was height of his career...when he was in a happy relationship with Iris, etc...then he’s miles below that.

I’m baffled at way DC brought back Barry....I fundamentally thought there was absolutely no need to take Wally offstage for ages to do it, and the new origin for Barry seemed geared to pleasing people who thought he was boring, rather than his fans.

It looked like a strategy to piss off Wally fans, and simultaneously lessen the pleasure of Barry’s...but that can’t have been the intention.

[MajorHoy]

But, again, how much of that previous life wasn't already twisted/changed by Geoff Johns prior to Flashpoint?

Most of it. Most of Barry's pre-COIE stories still happened during Johns' run. COIE twisted/changed just as much or even more about Barry's life than Johns did.

In that case, can you tell me when, exactly the concept of Barry's mother being murdered when Barry was still a kid was first introduced?

[BohemiaDrinker]

Well if we take as starting point that he was “dead”...then anything is an improvement.

But if start point was height of his career...when he was in a happy relationship with Iris, etc...then he’s miles below that.

Sure, but the point of the thread is "what Flashpoint cost Barry". And both his current life and his past were improved by Flashpoint, if we take the status quo immediately before it. COIE cost him his life, Flash: Rebirth cost him his parents, his personality, etc, etc. Flashpoint made him younger, with way less tragedy and bowties. He hadn't died, he got to plat the field a little more before settling with Iris, there was no legacy version of him that was better at his job, no time-enstranged grandson he had a hard time connecting with, he didn't witness the murder of his wife.

Barry got a sweet deal with Flashpoint. More than anyone else, I 'd say.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It's hard to pinpoint the exact point when Barry's past was changed from its original Silver/Bronze Age configuration to the one that we became aware of as of FLASH: REBIRTH (2009): did the switch take place even before he emerged from the Speed Force in FINAL CRISIS, or did he come out of the Speed Force with his original past intact, only to have it changed following Eobard Thawne's resurrection by the White Lantern at the end of BLACKEST NIGHT?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'd say after Thawne's ressurection, on account of Final Crisis Barry being awesome and Rebirth Barry being lame AF....

[Buried Alien]

I'd say after Thawne's ressurection, on account of Final Crisis Barry being awesome and Rebirth Barry being lame AF....

What about BLACKEST NIGHT Barry (I don't remember whether BLACKEST NIGHT or FLASH: REBIRTH came first chronologically)?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[MajorHoy]

What about BLACKEST NIGHT Barry (I don't remember whether BLACKEST NIGHT or FLASH: REBIRTH came first chronologically)?

Wasn't Barry back before Blackest Night?

[KC]

What he "lost" here was the murder of his wife, his trial and his death. Barry actually gained a lot from the reboot, no matter how attached to continuity some of us might be. His story and status quo is way better, from his POV.

As a character, he lost 30-40 years worth of a life. It might not have been perfect all the time, but it was still a life and losing it would mean something.

[KC]

In that case, can you tell me when, exactly the concept of Barry's mother being murdered when Barry was still a kid was first introduced?

Most of the stories told about Barry pre-COIE would have still happened the same way they did in Johns' run despite the death of Barry's mother.

[Buried Alien]

Wasn't Barry back before Blackest Night?

Yes, and FLASH: REBIRTH happened at around the same time, which throws a little ambiguity about whether the events of FLASH: REBIRTH or BLACKEST NIGHT took place first.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)