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  1. #76
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Flash Rebirth states that the past can't be changed, but Thawne can because of the negative speed force.
    I meant Rebirth, not Flashpoint. Sorry.
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  2. #77
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I can't keep track, has DC and/or the fans made up their minds on if Barry definitively fucked everything up or not? From what I gather from Flash War spoilers, Wally seems to blame Barry for it at least in part/initially. The friction and people being pissed at Barry, as well as the out of universe fact that a big chunk of the fanbase is making Barry the scapegoat for DC's treatment of Wally, doesn't seem to point to Barry getting the best deal. Better than Wally, but that's not saying much.
    I think Barry is very empathetic but there's only so much one can feel the loss of people he doesn't know or remember (or really ever knew or remembered) as much as someone who does.

    I don't think Barry should be held accountable for Flashpoint because it's a story that works around flawed logic and supposedly Manhattan was the one who really effected things, but as far as DC continuity is concerned Barry going back to save his mother in any adaption is tantamount to the Original Sin when it comes to time-travel and screwed the entire Flash Family up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    Perhaps. But Williamson has already made it pretty clear Barry will become the fastest again shortly.
    Which leaves poor Wally in the lurch again .

  3. #78
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Which leaves poor Wally in the lurch again .
    Not really surprising, though, since it would be kind of weird not having the most prominent Flash in the comics presently as the fastest.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Not really surprising, though, since it would be kind of weird not having the most prominent Flash in the comics presently as the fastest.
    Yeah... It will be really odd if every issue of The Flash comic begins with "I'm Barry Allen... and I'm not Fastest Man Alive."

  5. #80
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashEarthOne View Post
    Yeah... It will be really odd if every issue of The Flash comic begins with "I'm Barry Allen... and I'm not Fastest Man Alive."
    Exactly. Unless DC was going to move one of the other speedsters up to the top slot, it wasn't going to last.
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  6. #81
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Not really surprising, though, since it would be kind of weird not having the most prominent Flash in the comics presently as the fastest.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlashEarthOne View Post
    Yeah... It will be really odd if every issue of The Flash comic begins with "I'm Barry Allen... and I'm not Fastest Man Alive."
    That's always been the unspoken rule. And yet, one of the most interesting eras of FLASH history was during the early Wally days before THE RETURN OF BARRY ALLEN, when Wally was the standard-bearer for the franchise, but Jay Garrick was the Fastest Man Alive.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Exactly. Unless DC was going to move one of the other speedsters up to the top slot, it wasn't going to last.
    But why directly establish Wally being faster in the first place? If it's just to be a prop for Barry, I think both characters could have done without it.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    But why directly establish Wally being faster in the first place? If it's just to be a prop for Barry, I think both characters could have done without it.
    I don't necessarily disagree with that, Rend20.
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  9. #84
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    That's always been the unspoken rule. And yet, one of the most interesting eras of FLASH history was during the early Wally days before THE RETURN OF BARRY ALLEN, when Wally was the standard-bearer for the franchise, but Jay Garrick was the Fastest Man Alive.

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    Maybe Wally could get away with that because Jay's stamina wasn't as good?
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  10. #85
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Maybe Wally could get away with that because Jay's stamina wasn't as good?
    That “stamina isn’t as good” rarely if ever features in the stories..when did a Flash ever show signs of being tired in middle of a fight...or fail to run round Earth without stopping?

    I think Wally “got away with it” for several reasons. First the story quality was good, perhaps actually helped a bit by setting far lower speed limits for main hero. And secondly..surely large (vast?) majority of fans knew that Wally full speed would return, and he would eventually be fastest.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    But why directly establish Wally being faster in the first place? If it's just to be a prop for Barry, I think both characters could have done without it.
    I think it was both fan service and a prop. I have the feeling these "other Forces" will not survive an upcoming reboot... the Speed Force sounds silly but the Strength/Sage Force sounds even sillier. The Flash War arc will likely not age well.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Maybe Wally could get away with that because Jay's stamina wasn't as good?
    The only time that I remember where Jay's stamina was in question was Final Crisis... even then that was more a case of top speed.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    That “stamina isn’t as good” rarely if ever features in the stories..when did a Flash ever show signs of being tired in middle of a fight...or fail to run round Earth without stopping?

    I think Wally “got away with it” for several reasons. First the story quality was good, perhaps actually helped a bit by setting far lower speed limits for main hero. And secondly..surely large (vast?) majority of fans knew that Wally full speed would return, and he would eventually be fastest.
    Yeah, same as what we're seeing (or will be seeing) with Barry). Makes sense, Jack.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashEarthOne View Post
    I think it was both fan service and a prop. I have the feeling these "other Forces" will not survive an upcoming reboot... the Speed Force sounds silly but the Strength/Sage Force sounds even sillier.



    The only time that I remember where Jay's stamina was in question was Final Crisis... even then that was more a case of top speed.
    I also don't recall it being a factor, but I just threw it out there, regardless.
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  14. #89
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashEarthOne View Post
    The only time that I remember where Jay's stamina was in question was Final Crisis... even then that was more a case of top speed.
    It was textually said by Thawne in "Return of Barry Allen". And by that point, they all believed Thawne was Barry, so it's easy to assume that for them it was natural fo Jay to be faster.
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  15. #90
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Maybe Wally could get away with that because Jay's stamina wasn't as good?
    Jay was in limbo with the rest of the JSA for most of Wally's early Flash career. Once Jay was back - along with Max and Johnny - Wally began to gradually surpass himself and get some power ups. The time interval when Jay and Wally were active at the same time with Jay being faster was actually quite short.
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