Just when will DC allow Barry to see just what Flashpoint has cost him ?

[KurtW95]

Barry and Iris’s could always marry again. But it wouldn’t be the same without his parents, Al, and Dexter being there.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

But let's not blame Barry for this. BLAME THE PEOPLE AT DC WHO DECIDED TO WIPE OUT ALL THE PREVIOUS MARRIAGES / PREVIOUS HISTORIES for the New52. (Barry's just the scapegoat thanks to Geoff Johns' writing.)

Firstly, I never blamed Barry. If anything, I'd say Barry's almost as much a victim as the others who had their lives stolen. Secondly, you know that Didio was the one who made Flashpoint into a reboot, right?

[byrd156]

Firstly, I never blamed Barry. If anything, I'd say Barry's almost as much a victim as the others who had their lives stolen. Secondly, you know that Didio was the one who made Flashpoint into a reboot, right?

Flashpoint was just a Flash story that they decided hey this can screw everything up. The biggest sin to me about Flahspoint (besides almost everything about it) is the fact that it doesn't feel that epic. It has like 6 main focal characters and some more characters are focused on in tie-ins. Compare that to CoIE which had everyone, hell Identity Crisis a nonsensical murder mystery story has a larger cast and scope to it than Flashpoint.

[BohemiaDrinker]

His marriage,

He's still with Iris.

, his parents

That was Flash Rebirth.

, his relationship with his nephew via his wif

He got that back.

his relationship with his grandson...

They barely had one, and there's technically still time.

He’s with her NOW and only recently got with her. But Flashpoint wiped out the years’ worth of a life they had together. They had memories and adventures as a married couple that Barry no longer remembers, even if Iris might.

He also got younger. Barry had the girl, Barry still has the girl. Doesn't look like a loss to me. Specially since he now didn't have to mourn her murder, stand trial and then be reunited with her just to die 3 months later.

[married guy]

Don and Dawn?
Did the Tornado Twins still help fight off the invasion?
How about XS?
It's all very nebulous at the moment.
It's actually starting to give me the shits.
I miss not knowing how the Flash Family timeline worked.

Is John Fox still a Flash in the future?
What about the legacy highlighted in Chain Lightning? Does any of it still apply?
Jay, Joan. Max not to mention Johnny & Jesse.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

He also got younger. Barry had the girl, Barry still has the girl. Doesn't look like a loss to me. Specially since he now didn't have to mourn her murder, stand trial and then be reunited with her just to die 3 months later.

I'd still say it was a loss since he doesn't remember the life and family that they built together. He doesn't remember Bart or Jay or his and Iris's children. He may (or may not) be younger, but everyone got younger after Flashpoint. They still lost a great deal.

[dancj]

We were gone by Flash: Rebirth.

Now, that series cost Barry (and everyone else) a lot.

Did you read the last few years of Wally stories? I love Wally more than Barry, but by that point it was a mercy killing.

IIRC, in that final period there was exactly one good Flash story. IIRC, it was a fill in arc by Tom Peyer (or maybe Mark Guggenheim)

[BohemiaDrinker]

Did you read the last few years of Wally stories? I love Wally more than Barry, but by that point it was a mercy killing.

IIRC, in that final period there was exactly one good Flash story. IIRC, it was a fill in arc by Tom Peyer (or maybe Mark Guggenheim)

Yes, I did, and it wasn't a mercy killing. Wally's book wasn't cancelled because it got bad, it got bad because they would cancel it no matter what.

There is extensive material about it, you just have to look for it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Did you read the last few years of Wally stories? I love Wally more than Barry, but by that point it was a mercy killing.

I also have to say that the initial setup following Flash: Rebirth, with Wally his family and history still around just pushed into the background for a bit, wouldn't have been that bad, certainly not bad enough to warrant backlash against Barry. Especially as Johns had backup features for Wally planned and would have expanded the Flash mythos in a similar way to the GL mythos. Maybe Wally wouldn't have been the lead anymore, but he had two + decades while Barry fans got jack for most of it, worse things have happened to characters.

Though unfortunately, worse things were right around the corner....

[ducklord]

Flashpoint was just a Flash story that they decided hey this can screw everything up. The biggest sin to me about Flahspoint (besides almost everything about it) is the fact that it doesn't feel that epic. It has like 6 main focal characters and some more characters are focused on in tie-ins. Compare that to CoIE which had everyone, hell Identity Crisis a nonsensical murder mystery story has a larger cast and scope to it than Flashpoint.

That's because it's really obvious that Flashpoint was never intended to be a Crisis-level event.

It was supposed to be a Flash-centric summer crossover in which Barry learns an important lesson about time travel, a bunch of writers get to write some non-continuity Elseworlds-type stories in an exciting "timeline that's falling apart," and everyone has a wonderful time.

As a bonus, when the crossover was finished, because the timeline might NOT have been completely put back together correctly, any particular character that DC felt needed a swift retcon kick could've received one. There was lots of talk about nuking Superman's marriage going into the crossover, for example.

But then DC basically got told, in no uncertain terms, to do something big or risk the possibility of shutting the whole thing down. So they hurriedly turned Flashpoint into a full-on reboot vehicle.

And boy, does it show.

Nothing in Flashpoint itself gives any foreshadowing of the ending. The story moves along, as is, until the final few pages of the last issue, when all of a sudden Pandora shows up (she hadn't appeared before), and BAM! New 52. It's a splice job, and an ugly one at that.

It also explains why about half of the New 52 titles feel like they could've been part of the old universe. JLI, Hawk and Dove, and a host of other titles just felt like old universe titles that had last second editorial hand-waves jammed into them to make them feel like they belonged in the reboot. It's no wonder that so many of them were cancelled so quickly... they were square pegs in a round hole that hand't even been fully drilled yet.

Someday, I'd LOVE to read an oral history of how the New 52 came about. It must have been a constant rolling fustercluck.

[MajorHoy]

And I still think Flashpoint was basically a retelling of The Wizard of Oz, with Barry as Dorothy Gale.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I'd still say it was a loss

Right before Flashpoint, Barry Allen was his crappiest version ever. And before that he was dead.

Barry lost nothing with the reboot, seriously.

[married guy]

What Barry has lost, was his sense of heroism.
He was the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He wasn't motivated by the death of his mum or wrongly imprisoned dad.
He was also a scientist. He was SMART.
While the Rebirth Flash title has been fairly decent, when did we last see an INTELLIGENT Barry?

[KC]

What Barry has lost, was his sense of heroism.
He was the Flash because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He wasn't motivated by the death of his mum or wrongly imprisoned dad.
He was also a scientist. He was SMART.
While the Rebirth Flash title has been fairly decent, when did we last see an INTELLIGENT Barry?

Not really. Barry still had a sense of Heroism, even after the change to his motivation. He still saves people because it is the right thing to do, it isn't why he became the Flash but it is still a part of the character.

[KC]

Right before Flashpoint, Barry Allen was his crappiest version ever. And before that he was dead.

Barry lost nothing with the reboot, seriously.

Barry, like all characters after Flashpoint, lost his entire life. And that includes his marriage to Iris. Yes, they can get re-married, but he still lost everything that happened in the previous Marriage.