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  1. #2596
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    DC must choose one as Diana’s twin: Nubia or Jason.
    Neither please. Nubia is fine just being an Amazon without direct relation to Diana. And Jason...I don't know her.

  2. #2597
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    Here’s one. I don’t think Etta Candy should have been made black. It goes back to the overused black best friend trope......but that’s just me.

  3. #2598
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Here’s one. I don’t think Etta Candy should have been made black. It goes back to the overused black best friend trope......but that’s just me.
    I don't think it's actually unpopular, I don't see much love for this version of Etta. And she's also the manish lesbian trope (or whatever it's called these days). It's crazy that the current Etta is more of a stereotype than the one from the 40's.

  4. #2599
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Current Etta is fine, but doesn't really seem like Etta.
    A lot of her scenes could be switched out with Michaelis or Darnell and be functionally the same

  5. #2600
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Here’s one. I don’t think Etta Candy should have been made black. It goes back to the overused black best friend trope......but that’s just me.
    That's probably why Orlando switched her with the Latina Officer Nunez.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Current Etta is fine, but doesn't really seem like Etta.
    A lot of her scenes could be switched out with Michaelis or Darnell and be functionally the same
    She did in Bloodlines, or maybe she seemed more like Sherri Sheppard playing Etta Candy.

  6. #2601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    That's probably why Orlando switched her with the Latina Officer Nunez.



    She did in Bloodlines, or maybe she seemed more like Sherri Sheppard playing Etta Candy.
    a7347c32d38a57b273785b767ffaac04.jpg


    Based on how Etta is portrayed on the upcoming cover for Mariko Tamaki, it seems that they are going to return to the more comic relief version of Etta.

    I don't think making Etta black is the problem. The problem was placing her in Argus thus making her a much harder and reserved character. It also doesn't help that the writers haven't really focused on Etta's friendship with Diana. As much as I loved Rucka's run, his The Lies storyline had Etta and Diana separated a lot, and once they are finally united, Etta spends more time resentful at Diana because of Barbara Ann's decision to become the Cheetah again. I know a lot of people didn't like Shea Fontana's run, but she's the only person I can think of who actually attempted to focus on the Etta/Diana friendship in a meaningful way. Although, I would say she largely was unsuccessful; there was at least an attempt.

    I guess my unpopular opinion is that I wish Etta could either be Diana's neighbor, or a coworker of Diana's at a museum. This would also give Etta more purpose as she could play the audience surrogate for Diana and Steve's adventures and hilariously comment on the various villains and situations.

  7. #2602
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Oh I really hate Etta being part of the military.

    We have Steve to provide the connection to that side of Diana's character, but who is there who helps Di connect to normal people now? I'd much rather Etta return to civilian life. Diana doesn't need a secret civilian identity but she does need friends who are regular people and can help her experience normal life.

    And if Etta does edge back towards the comedic route while still being part of Argus, we're gonna end up with a black woman who, at least at first glance, appears less competent and capable than the white male, and I fear that when Etta does something awesome and badass and helps save the day, it'll look more like a happy accident than her being a legit badass soldier. Etta as comedy relief is fine with me, that's where I want her, but I'm not sure I like the optics of "comedic soldier Etta."

    I'm not overly fond of Etta becoming the "black best friend" either, that troupe seems over-used to me, but I'd rather that than her being in Argus.
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  8. #2603
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    a7347c32d38a57b273785b767ffaac04.jpg


    Based on how Etta is portrayed on the upcoming cover for Mariko Tamaki, it seems that they are going to return to the more comic relief version of Etta.

    I don't think making Etta black is the problem. The problem was placing her in Argus thus making her a much harder and reserved character. It also doesn't help that the writers haven't really focused on Etta's friendship with Diana. As much as I loved Rucka's run, his The Lies storyline had Etta and Diana separated a lot, and once they are finally united, Etta spends more time resentful at Diana because of Barbara Ann's decision to become the Cheetah again. I know a lot of people didn't like Shea Fontana's run, but she's the only person I can think of who actually attempted to focus on the Etta/Diana friendship in a meaningful way. Although, I would say she largely was unsuccessful; there was at least an attempt.

    I guess my unpopular opinion is that I wish Etta could either be Diana's neighbor, or a coworker of Diana's at a museum. This would also give Etta more purpose as she could play the audience surrogate for Diana and Steve's adventures and hilariously comment on the various villains and situations.
    Yeah, I think Etta being part of Argus makes her kind of a diet Amanda Waller. Bloodlines I thought did it a bit better since she had a more fun personality there but yeah, I'd say putting her in some sort of museum or maybe academic setting as the "normal person" in WW's world to all the weird stuff normalized to Diana and Steve would be a decent status quo.

  9. #2604
    Incredible Member Anodyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    There is one strength with having Diana's powers at least partly be connected with her birth, and it was made explicit by Pérez in "Legacy" (Wonder Woman v2 #45) where he explicitly connected Diana with a feminst reimagining of the Pandora myth.
    Do you know if anyone at DC obtained Charlene Spretnak's permission to borrow from her work? Except for some changes in pronouns and verb tenses, the "Pandora" segment in "Legacy" was taken almost word for word from Spretnak's chapter on Pandora in her book "Lost Goddesses of Early Greece." Even the art matched Ms. Spretnak's verbal descriptions.

    Also, can anyone remember in which issue it was explained that Themiscyra's ban on men was based on a fear that the women would turn on one another to fight for the man's attentions? Which female hero guest-starred--Black Canary, Hawkgirl, the Inza Doctor Fate?
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  10. #2605
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    Etta going back to comic relief would be a thousand steps backwards in terms of representation. It's a stereotypical depiction of both black and fat characters. As for needing to connect to ordinary people, Etta has a job, no super powers and actually looks like a normal person in comparison to the idealized body type superheroes normally have. The military job is not a problem and does allow her to interact with Diana. The Golden Age version frequently went on missions with Diana so her being a soldier isn't unwarranted.

    I think this goes back to the arbitrary rules for what counts as relatable to certain superhero fans. From Perez to Simone, Diana had a job, friends, a home, culture she called her own but this wasn't enough for some people until she started doing a Clark Kent impression again (which is funny when you consider these same people hate her being bulletproof because it makes her too much like Superman). Perez did more to make Diana unique among DC heroes than a lot of pre-COIE writers yet ironically those changes were hated by fans who complain about Diana being written as too generic.

  11. #2606
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Etta going back to comic relief would be a thousand steps backwards in terms of representation. It's a stereotypical depiction of both black and fat characters. As for needing to connect to ordinary people, Etta has a job, no super powers and actually looks like a normal person in comparison to the idealized body type superheroes normally have. The military job is not a problem and does allow her to interact with Diana. The Golden Age version frequently went on missions with Diana so her being a soldier isn't unwarranted

    I think this goes back to the arbitrary rules for what counts as relatable to certain superhero fans. From Perez to Simone, Diana had a job, friends, a home, culture she called her own but this wasn't enough for some people until she started doing a Clark Kent impression again (which is funny when you consider these same people hate her being bulletproof because it makes her too much like Superman). Perez did more to make Diana unique among DC heroes than a lot of pre-COIE writers yet ironically those changes were hated by fans who complain about Diana being written as too generic.
    I don't complain about the Perez version being too generic, I complain about it being not what I want to read. And modern Etta may be better in terms of representation, but she's simply not Etta Candy to me, and is far less fun. She's just some other character who bears Etta's name. Feel similarly about the tv version and the post-COIE version. Neither are terrible, but they don't hold a candle to the original in terms of me enjoying them.

    I do particularly have a problem with the Zeus' child, having more powers than other Amazons, and Etta and Steve having a connection prior to Diana rather than their her being the intermediary. Those are more thematic.

    Preference, pure personal preference, rather than any objective fault with setup, means I would like at least a paper secret identity and connection as a person perceived as an ordinary person to ordinary people. I like secret identities. I like Diana being treated like an average, ordinary person and being able to interact at least with broader society in a way where she's not treated as special (princess or superhero). Also pure personal preference, I like more "real-world" adventures over more magic and mythology-based ones. Same pretty much goes for Green Lanterns, where I tend to prefer the earlier earth-based over later space-based stories. I don't deny the popularity of other versions, but it lessens my interest in reading. Just personal preference.
    Last edited by Tzigone; Today at 04:24 AM.

  12. #2607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I like Diana being treated like an average, ordinary person and being able to interact at least with broader society in a way where she's not treated as special (princess or superhero).
    As I said, this has been done when she didn't have a secret identity and whether or not she has one doesn't dictate this. When they brought back the secret identity, her daily interactions were anything but ordinary.

  13. #2608
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Etta going back to comic relief would be a thousand steps backwards in terms of representation. It's a stereotypical depiction of both black and fat characters. As for needing to connect to ordinary people, Etta has a job, no super powers and actually looks like a normal person in comparison to the idealized body type superheroes normally have. The military job is not a problem and does allow her to interact with Diana. The Golden Age version frequently went on missions with Diana so her being a soldier isn't unwarranted.

    I think this goes back to the arbitrary rules for what counts as relatable to certain superhero fans. From Perez to Simone, Diana had a job, friends, a home, culture she called her own but this wasn't enough for some people until she started doing a Clark Kent impression again (which is funny when you consider these same people hate her being bulletproof because it makes her too much like Superman). Perez did more to make Diana unique among DC heroes than a lot of pre-COIE writers yet ironically those changes were hated by fans who complain about Diana being written as too generic.
    Etta was never just comic relief back in the Golden Age, and I feel that both LoWW and Earth One were able to retain the spirit of the original and update her in a modern way and ditch the dated aspects. of the post-COIE versions, only Simone's Etta ever seemed like a natural depiction of what Etta would be like as an adult. The problem with the Perez version is she just never seemed like Etta (a realistic character having body image issues has a place in mainstream comics, but it just doesn't work with Etta specifically), and the military job even put her more on the fringes than she was already. She really doesn't play a big role in that run, and that sort of continues into Rebirth where she is Steve's friend and Barbara Ann's girlfriend, but is otherwise not especially close to Diana and filling a role that can be filled by other characters without any functional difference (Michaelis, Darnell).

    She doesn't need to be in the military to be involved in Diana's adventures. Julia wasn't, and she got more focus than Steve or Etta. Julia can even teach at Holliday College, so a take could naturally include both Julia and classic Holliday Girl Etta in one easy setting.

  14. #2609
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    The "Wonderfam" is, in my opinion, fine as is and rarely needs new members. Even if Diana had a second title its just fine in terms of size. I don't want something so big that few people get put on a spot light or so small that it feels, for lack of a better word empty.

    I see the fam as...

    Diana and Donna being legit twins in every sense of the word. i.e. same body, age, physical stats, origins and powers. The difference would be their personalities and up bringing. I think its important to show that Diana and Donna are far more powerful than other amazons, lesser gods to the Greek gods really. Due to their origins and feats. Cassie serving as a protégé under Diana.

    Diana's human friends being Steve, Etta, Julia Kapetelus, Helena Sandsmark, Diana's embassy team (Rucka's vol 1 characters), Steve's military buds, General Claw? (from Simeone's run), the holiday girls more as a group than individuals as I'm sure it'd be a huge club, and a few others I'm maybe missing. And Ferdinand, yes I know he is a minotaur but, he's primarily in the human world and works as a chief in the embassy and I love the running gag of people meeting him and everyone just pretending that he isn't a minotaur.

    Gateway city could have a huge prestigious university where the holiday girls are the lead sorority. Julia works as the head librarian. Helena as the lead professor in archeology and the ancient world. Place Themyscira's new embassy island on the shoreline and boom, you have a place for Diana's embassy team. Gateway city is now an established place filled with Wonder Woman supporting characters.

    ARGUS isn't a bad thing and I feel its important to keep it in Diana's mythos as her own STAR Labs, less some other character takes it or it gets ignored and forgotten. We could have General Claw as one of its heads, specifically for the military. Etta as the head of another branch, the humanitarian and meta human cooperation branch. And a group of three women as the heads of Research and Development. Steve can work as a lead commando with special clearance and lead his own team. ARGUS's fighting force would be the Atomic Knights, we can even have other heroes work for them. Like Damage or another character that just can't hold a solo title. ARGUS would have a huge building in Gateway city, with multiple secret bases around the globe.

    Diana's family and amazon sisters on the other hand would be Hippolyta, Nubia, Philippus, Antiope, Atalanta, Artemis, Io, Sofia, Castalia, Kasia, Orana, Mala, Areto, Epione, and Hessia.

    Hippolyta serves as queen and mother to Diana. Philippus as the lead general or master of war serving next to Hippolyta and Diana's first teacher. Artemis, Hessia, and Atalanta serving as generals under Philippus. Nubia as leader of the Doom Guard, the guards that watch over Dooms doorway. Antiope serving as a counsel member and Diana's aunt as a member of the royal family. Areto as the islands grand maester or master of sciences and member of the counsel. Epione as the chief healer and member of the counsel. Io and Orana as the main blacksmiths/armorers. Castalia as the oracle and counsel member. Sofia as the master of agriculture and counsel member. Mala as the main scribe to detail all the members decisions. With Kasia being a close friend to Diana. Obviously all of these amazons would be close friends and allies to Diana. These are just the main amazons, the ones where we see amazon society, through their eyes.


    There are other things of course like how I would want Hippolyta to be Ares's daughter, making her a demigod. How I would want Nubia and Hippolyta to be the strongest of the amazons (excluding Diana and Donna).
    Last edited by masterwitcher88; Today at 10:56 AM. Reason: Holy crap, I can't beileve i forgot Ferdinand!
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  15. #2610
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    She's on the new cover with Steve in matching uniforms so maybe they rebuild and rejoin, but since Leviathan Etta Candy is no longer in the military or A.R.G.U.S.

    ETTA SSS.jpg

    She provides a bridge between Diana and regular people, she's useful even without jokes.

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