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  1. #5041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Developing a personality isn't the same thing as giving him one. I can't understand the notion that we oughta invest even more time into a character that hasn't had a personality despite being around for 80 years, specially when there are so many better characters in the wonderverse that are being badly served (or not used at all).

    I think one of the biggest problems with the Wonderverse is that most of the supporting characters are only defined by being good or bad, confident or insecure, loving or closed off. Steve is one of the prime examples of this. He never had his own distinct way of looking at the world, his own interesting drive to act, his own distinct way of speaking. There are so many better love interests or allies Diana could have.
    I'm not a Wonder Woman expert like a lot of people on this board. But from reading this board for years, Steve was not around in the Wonderverse in any significant way for years until Rebirth. People say he was aged into an old man during the Perez years and not a love interest. People say Nu52 had Wonder Woman/Superman as love interests. So the "80 years" is true, but there was not consistent investment in those 80 years if what people say is true.

    I will speak on what I know. Both Wonder Woman films feature Steve, and the pairing was well received. Bloodlines features the Diana/Steve pairing. I liked them, and I liked Steve's individual personality. Rebirth has focused on Steve as an individual character in the main Wonder Woman comic, he got a spinoff Wonder Woman comic, he's apparently in Checkmate, and he and Diana were in a Valentine's Day comic with their own story. It is highly likely he will be in her video game.

    DC is already investing in him. Cloonrad seem poised to invest in him more hence the work they are doing to make Diana/Steve's first meeting impactful.

    It is through this repeated investment that a personality can continue to be developed. That doesn't mean you have to like the personality or the character, but DC has already made their decision that Steve and Diana/Steve are valuable to them.

  2. #5042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    You don't think a hedonist, self affirming chaotic adventurer who looks at the world as an absurd place she has to give a good spanking to is interesting?

    If you need some entertainment I would recommend you check out the NPR concert by Lizzo. You don't even need to watch it, just listen. What she says in between songs is hilarious, and everything a live action Etta Candy should be.

    Check this out between 9:20 and 11:10
    The way you're describing Etta doesn't fit Lizzo either. Never mind the fact Lizzo wasn't even born when Etta was created and the only incarnation of her she has anything in common with is the Rebirth version. And even that is really only in a shallow way.

  3. #5043
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Developing a personality isn't the same thing as giving him one. I can't understand the notion that we oughta invest even more time into a character that hasn't had a personality despite being around for 80 years, specially when there are so many better characters in the wonderverse that are being badly served (or not used at all).

    I think one of the biggest problems with the Wonderverse is that most of the supporting characters are only defined by being good or bad, confident or insecure, loving or closed off. Steve is one of the prime examples of this. He never had his own distinct way of looking at the world, his own interesting drive to act, his own distinct way of speaking. There are so many better love interests or allies Diana could have.
    Yeah, but less story writing makes it worse, not better, more is better.

    Steve's interaction with Grail was quite interesting I think.

  4. #5044
    Mighty Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    You don't think a hedonist, self affirming chaotic adventurer who looks at the world as an absurd place she has to give a good spanking to is interesting?

    If you need some entertainment I would recommend you check out the NPR concert by Lizzo. You don't even need to watch it, just listen. What she says in between songs is hilarious, and everything a live action Etta Candy should be.

    Check this out between 9:20 and 11:10
    I still hope this is the blueprint for Etta Candy if she ever debuts in a Wonder-Woman-related live action project. Heck, have Lizzo herself play the character; I would watch the heck out of that.

  5. #5045
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The way you're describing Etta doesn't fit Lizzo either. Never mind the fact Lizzo wasn't even born when Etta was created and the only incarnation of her she has anything in common with is the Rebirth version. And even that is really only in a shallow way.
    What are you talking about? Lizzo's personality as a celebrity is a body positive icon that suffers no fool (Truth Hurts) and is all about enjoying yourself. The only thing she lacks is the chaotic adventurer, but that's because she is a musician.

    How the hell can you look at this panel and say this isn't Lizzo?

    Screenshot_2-32.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Steve's interaction with Grail was quite interesting I think.
    I barely read any stories with Grail. What issues would you recommend for her interactions with Steve?
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-04-2022 at 07:48 AM.

  6. #5046
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I'm not a Wonder Woman expert like a lot of people on this board. But from reading this board for years, Steve was not around in the Wonderverse in any significant way for years until Rebirth. People say he was aged into an old man during the Perez years and not a love interest. People say Nu52 had Wonder Woman/Superman as love interests. So the "80 years" is true, but there was not consistent investment in those 80 years if what people say is true.
    He appeared in most Golden Age stories. He was Diana's Main Ally during the Silver Age, being an intrinsic part of at least half the stories. He appeared often in the Bronze Age, and was still there in Post Crisis. No other character aside from Diana and Hippolyta have been nearly as present as him. He has had more investment than Alfred did in Batman comics.

    I will speak on what I know. Both Wonder Woman films feature Steve, and the pairing was well received. Bloodlines features the Diana/Steve pairing. I liked them, and I liked Steve's individual personality. Rebirth has focused on Steve as an individual character in the main Wonder Woman comic, he got a spinoff Wonder Woman comic, he's apparently in Checkmate, and he and Diana were in a Valentine's Day comic with their own story. It is highly likely he will be in her video game.

    It is through this repeated investment that a personality can continue to be developed. That doesn't mean you have to like the personality or the character, but DC has already made their decision that Steve and Diana/Steve are valuable to them.
    DC also chose to push Grail and Jason for the longest time. Fans fought back and now we don't have suffer anymore. Not that I expect a push back on Steve though.

    If someone here can describe Steve's personality to me, and tell me why that's interesting I would be more than happy to read. People in this community confuse values with personality. Steve can be a nice guy, a strong guy, but that's not a character, that's a mold. A lot of supporting characters over the years have been strong nice people, and that's pretty much all I have to say about them.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-04-2022 at 05:30 AM.

  7. #5047
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    He appeared in most Golden Age stories. He was Diana's Main Ally during the Silver Age, being an intrinsic part of at least half the stories. He appeared often in the Bronze Age, and was still there in Post Crisis. No other character aside from Diana and Hippolyta have been nearly as present as him. He has had more investment than Alfred did in Batman comics.



    DC also chose to push Grail and Jason for the longest time. Fans fought back and now we don't have suffer anymore. Not that I expect a push back on Steve though.

    If someone here can describe Steve's personality to me, and tell me why that's interesting I would be more than happy to read. People in this community confuse values with personality. Steve can be a nice guy, a strong guy, but that's not a character, that's a mold. A lot of supporting characters over the years have been strong nice people, and that's pretty much all I have to say about them.
    Steve's personality is that of a soldier who's seen the horrors of war and instead wants to fight for peace. He's worldly, charming, perceptive, curious, a master spy and exceedingly ambitious. This is evidenced by his switching branches of the military from United States Air Force to the Navy and back again, his changes in rank from Lt. Colonel to eventual General, from being a Navy SEAL, to United Nations liaison, to member of the CIA, Team 7 and Checkmate, leader of the Oddfellows, the Director of A.R.G.U.S. and the official head of the Justice League of America.

    He likes sports, learning new information, old trucks, dressing casually when out of uniform, diplomacy, the comradery of his co-workers and using his income to benefit the love of his life Princess Diana of Themyscira.

    He's also started a new hobby as a documentary filmmaker and he has a sister named Tracy, a niece and nephew and a goddaughter named Mya. He's the pinnacle of benign masculinity, he's secure in his manhood, doesn't see strong women as a threat and when faced with deaths of his close friends he had the ability to cry.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 01-04-2022 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #5048
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    A soldier that fights for peace. Isn't that just a normal soldier? Or is he actively dismounting the invasive operations of western armies to sabotage the neo colonialist attitude?

    He's worldly, charming, perceptive, curious, a master spy and exceedingly ambitious.
    ...
    He likes sports, learning new information, old trucks, dressing casually when out of uniform, diplomacy, the comradery of his co-workers and using his income to benefit the love of his life Princess Diana of Themyscira.
    Maybe I'm just someone who doesn't get it. None of those things combined with his job as a soldier-spy sound distinct to me. They just sound like the general qualities we find in human beings.
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-04-2022 at 10:59 AM.

  9. #5049
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    What makes Lois Lane, Iris West, Linda Park any more interesting? Most qualities in heroes are found in general hunan beings. Only difference is that they have powers most of the time.

  10. #5050
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    What makes Lois Lane, Iris West, Linda Park any more interesting? Most qualities in heroes are found in general hunan beings. Only difference is that they have powers most of the time.
    That's why the Silver Age was when DC heroes were the least interesting. Just go read Justice League of America in the 60s. They all have the same nice and confident personality. It's not even about having character flaws, it's that none of them have a unique drive or point of view.

    I can't speak to the qualities of Iris West or Linda Park. What makes Lois Lane fascinating is that she is a woman guided by extreme insecurity she mascarades through intrusiveness and bravado, and most of the people she meets totally buy this mask because she does it to perfection.

    The two phrases that define Lois Lane are "What are you hiding from me?" and "I'll attack you before you get the chance to attack me". She doesn't expect people to be kind and selfless, and when they are she expects them to be dishonest. And the beautiful thing is when she meets this guy from Smallville and just can't find anything selfish or prudish in him no matter how hard she tries. And her journey is one where she comes to feel secure in the people that surround her.

    Of course she can be kind and sweet, but only when others aren't looking (all of this changes as she gets older).
    Last edited by Alpha; 01-04-2022 at 11:29 AM.

  11. #5051
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    But I'll say this, if you want Steve to be a love interest long term and be compelling, at least try to reinvent the damsel in distress thing.

    Make it so Steve Trevor always has a broken nose, or shoulder in recovery, or is temporarily blind from one eye, but always has to get out of bed to stop a secret scheme, and does his little part while limping. This dude doesn't go a week without needing bandages, but he still keeps his sweet smile.

  12. #5052
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    A soldier that fights for peace. Isn't that just a normal soldier? Or is he actively dismounting the invasive operations of western armies to sabotage the neo colonialist attitude?

    Look, maybe I'm


    Maybe I'm just someone who doesn't get it. None of those things combined with his job as a soldier-spy sound distinct to me. They just sound like the general qualities we find in human beings.
    Yeah, you're just someone who doesn't get it, but I don't think you really want to.

  13. #5053

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    A soldier that fights for peace. Isn't that just a normal soldier? Or is he actively dismounting the invasive operations of western armies to sabotage the neo colonialist attitude?
    lol, no.

    A small pop cultural example: why do you think we have as varied examples as Captain America, Punisher, Captain Atom, Peacemaker and Isaiah Bradley?

    Maybe I'm just someone who doesn't get it. None of those things combined with his job as a soldier-spy sound distinct to me. They just sound like the general qualities we find in human beings.
    Sometimes the simplest and most straight forward path is the best.

  14. #5054
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    But I'll say this, if you want Steve to be a love interest long term and be compelling, at least try to reinvent the damsel in distress thing.

    Make it so Steve Trevor always has a broken nose, or shoulder in recovery, or is temporarily blind from one eye, but always has to get out of bed to stop a secret scheme, and does his little part while limping. This dude doesn't go a week without needing bandages, but he still keeps his sweet smile.
    Btw, this wasn't a joke, I seriously think Steve would be more endearing if he was a "man of action" that always had an injury or bruise and who should really just spend his days in bed, but he still wants to help out. But yes, it would also be funny.

  15. #5055
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Btw, this wasn't a joke, I seriously think Steve would be more endearing if he was a "man of action" that always had an injury or bruise and who should really just spend his days in bed, but he still wants to help out. But yes, it would also be funny.
    Your replying to your own quote?

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