Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[AmiMizuno]

How can we make her more formidable? One thing I dislike is how they reject her whole Archeologist origin. Why can’t she have her own bit of magical artifacts? Maybe not has powerful but she can use them

[SiegePerilous02]

At this point I don't think it's possible for anyone other than Cheetah to be her archnemesis. No hero of Wonder Woman's caliber has had a brand new villain created in recent years and promoted to archnemesis status. All A-List heroes have primary villains who have been around for almost as long as them. Veronica Cale was created in, what, 2000? That's 65 years of Wonder Woman stories without that character. So regardless of what Rucka wants, Cale could never reach that level, nor should she (and I say this as a big fan of what Rucka has done with her in recent years).

Agreed.

Its possible Ive never enjoyed Cheetah as much as I should because on some subconscious level I'm expecting Lex and Joker levels of awesomeness/badness and Cheetah just isn't there. I dont know, Im not sure why I dont enjoy the villain more.

I think if Cheetah's not the arch, then it's gotta be Circe.

Also agreed, though honestly she's even worse than Cheetah in terms of consistency and having a motivation that isn't terrible.

[Agent Z]

Agreed.



Also agreed, though honestly she's even worse than Cheetah in terms of consistency and having a motivation that isn't terrible.

I wouldn't say revenge against Hippolyta for a past sleight or misandry/misanthropy are that bad of motivations.

Maybe not as properly developed but they are at least consistent in her always having some kind of beef with the Amazons for one reason or another.

[Koriand'r]

Yes Circe's motivation is solid, so is her characterization for the most part. She's not your average comic book sorceress. She has a distinct personality, different from either Enchantress, Morgan le Fey or her Marvel counterpart Sersi.

[Koriand'r]

I want a new Amazons Attack done correctly. Sow the seeds years in advance, have Amazons infiltrate the world's population, take seats of power, develop their arsenal as well as defenses and let's have a real war this time.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wouldn't say revenge against Hippolyta for a past sleight or misandry/misanthropy are that bad of motivations.

Maybe not as properly developed but they are at least consistent in her always having some kind of beef with the Amazons for one reason or another.

The prior relationship with Hippolyta and a grudge against her is a solid motivation, but not one that's been used outside of her Golden age appearance or the DCAU of all places.
Otherwise, post-Crisis she never encountered them directly but hated them based on reputation and had all the soul swapping prophecy nonsense with Diana, which is pretty convoluted and uninteresting. In the Bronze age I believe there was also a prophecy between her and Diana, and Rebirth we're back to something to do with souls. And I think New 52 had some ties to the male children of the Amazons, and that's best avoided.

[Vordan]

The prior relationship with Hippolyta and a grudge against her is a solid motivation, but not one that's been used outside of her Golden age appearance or the DCAU of all places.
Otherwise, post-Crisis she never encountered them directly but hated them based on reputation and had all the soul swapping prophecy nonsense with Diana, which is pretty convoluted and uninteresting. In the Bronze age I believe there was also a prophecy between her and Diana, and Rebirth we're back to something to do with souls. And I think New 52 had some ties to the male children of the Amazons, and that's best avoided.

I think the base idea of the New 52 was solid: The Amazons made a deal with Circe, but then they realized she’s an utter sociopath and betrayed her out of disgust. Ditch the Male Amazons and figure out another idea for what Circe wanted (something appropriately horrendous) and what the Amazons wanted (perhaps a way to go back and forth from Themyscaria safely?) and I think it would work fine. Of course Circe’s beef with Diana just has to start off as an extension of her beef with the Amazons. After Diana’s fouled her plans a few times just switch it over to a personal vendetta just like how other villains are.

[marhawkman]

I want a new Amazons Attack done correctly. Sow the seeds years in advance, have Amazons infiltrate the world's population, take seats of power, develop their arsenal as well as defenses and let's have a real war this time.

That's one of those things I think the Bana-migdall are best suited for. DC doesn't usually want to make WW look like a villain. Having Paradise Island attack is a bit too... overtly villainous for that. But a splinter faction of Amazons? that works. This isn't to say you can't use PI Amazons as antagonists, but not a "big bad".

Yes Circe's motivation is solid, so is her characterization for the most part. She's not your average comic book sorceress. She has a distinct personality, different from either Enchantress, Morgan le Fey or her Marvel counterpart Sersi.

Heh, Amora has a weird several-thousand-year-old love-sick-puppy thing. It's unique and kinda adorable.

[Agent Z]

That's one of those things I think the Bana-migdall are best suited for. DC doesn't usually want to make WW look like a villain. Having Paradise Island attack is a bit too... overtly villainous for that. But a splinter faction of Amazons? that works. This isn't to say you can't use PI Amazons as antagonists, but not a "big bad".

Heh, Amora has a weird several-thousand-year-old love-sick-puppy thing. It's unique and kinda adorable.

The Bana were used as antagonists in Amazons Attack and it didn't go well either. Honestly, there are too many unfortunate implications when it comes to using them as antagonists and it would be best for DC to take a break on Amazons as villains stories for a while.

[Koriand'r]

The Bana were used as antagonists in Amazons Attack and it didn't go well either. Honestly, there are too many unfortunate implications when it comes to using them as antagonists and it would be best for DC to take a break on Amazons as villains stories for a while.

I want an all out war for women everywhere with Amazons from everywhere. The Me Too movement on steroids, Bana, Themyscirans and Citizenry included. You can probably tell the idea partially comes from House of X, sparked by half the Amazons so easily siding with Grail. But it's also from a 2 part 80's tv movie where Amazons attempt to take over the world. After searching for years I can't remember the name of it. All I can tell you is it's the scenario I described with a piece of jewelry possibly a golden female archer identifying various women in power as secret Amazons.

[AmiMizuno]

The Amazon attacks were supposed to be different but editors got in the way. The banas were supposed to be minded control. I feel the storyline could work if done better.

[Circe]

The prior relationship with Hippolyta and a grudge against her is a solid motivation, but not one that's been used outside of her Golden age appearance or the DCAU of all places.
Otherwise, post-Crisis she never encountered them directly but hated them based on reputation and had all the soul swapping prophecy nonsense with Diana, which is pretty convoluted and uninteresting. In the Bronze age I believe there was also a prophecy between her and Diana, and Rebirth we're back to something to do with souls. And I think New 52 had some ties to the male children of the Amazons, and that's best avoided.

I actually agree with you - Circe’s inconsistent backstory is one of the things that weigh down her character from being used more (and better). We haven’t delved that deeply into it in Rebirth yet, but the Justice League Dark storyline has used her really well regardless. Diana and her have a very unique relationship in it, with Diana calling her “sister” and seemingly trusting her more than she should. It’s building up to something, so we’ll have to see if her backstory in this iteration is revealed later. If nothing else, Tynion really ironed out the connection Circe and Diana have to Hecate and made it a lot less convoluted. I think it’s way more interesting, but you’re free to disagree.

For me, Diana’s relationship to her villains vary so widely and are so complex that it’s hard to rank them. The top 3 have to be Ares, Cheetah and Circe. They’re sort of a Joker, Bane and Ras al Ghul triad of enemies - the big bads. (Forgive the Batman comparison, obviously they’re different, but in terms of the role they fill in Diana’s stories I think it’s somewhat accurate.)

[Stanlos]

I want a new Amazons Attack done correctly. Sow the seeds years in advance, have Amazons infiltrate the world's population, take seats of power, develop their arsenal as well as defenses and let's have a real war this time.

A war implies both sides have some chance of winning though. I would not trust anyone outside of Rucka to handle that with anything approaching competence or care. Certainly not while DiDio or Johns are making decisions

[Koriand'r]

A war implies both sides have some chance of winning though. I would not trust anyone outside of Rucka to handle that with anything approaching competence or care. Certainly not while DiDio or Johns are making decisions

True, Rucka's initial setup was great. You felt the tension building, then he was fired and it was all ruined. It was easy to see Will Pfeifer had no knowledge of Wonder Woman continuity, but then he didn't even follow his own. Story beats changed from issue to issue and plot points came out of nowhere. To add insult to injury the art was really good, which only made the writing more atrocious. That's why I want a do-over, it all started off so promising.

[AmiMizuno]

I often think the best way to have Circe work. Is that she was close to the amazons. She teaches some of the amazons magic. However, she wanted a more extreme feminist movement to take place. She takes a few of the Amazons with her and she started turning men into animals. Maybe even before she was banished the Amazons had her on the Island. Before she was banished she cursed the Island.