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  1. #3766
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    In the myths, the Amazons were all daughters of Ares. The identity of the mother varies but Ares conceived Hippolyta, Melanippe, Penthiselia and Antiope with Queen Otrera. The Amazons had a counterpart culture in the Gargarians; a tribe of all male warriors with whom they would meet once a year, to mate and conceive children. The males would be raised by the Gargarians and the females would be raised by the Amazons. This is how they maintained their numbers. There were stories of Amazons killing their male off spring but it's just as likely that complications happened in pregnancies just like in real life. Ergo, male rapist Amazons have no basis even in mythology either and is more of a reflection of an authors fears and anxiety of an all female warrior society.

  2. #3767
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Alright my controversial opinion: Steve Trevor should be Bi
    Also I feel like poly relationships should be considered
    If I got my hands on Wonder Woman I would treat Paradise Island as a sort of after life that was created out of the need for a place where some lesbian women that don't want to live among men could escape from the cruelty of the ancient world. Over the centuries the island would bring new women to the shore, saving them from their horrible deaths and they would be allowed to become amazons or to choose to go back to Man's World.

    My most controversial idea, Steve Trevor didn't land on that island by accident. Destinty didn't bring him there to give Diana a reason to leave the island. Fate brought him there because even though he didn't know it yet, that's where he belonged. I would write a story about an older Steve Trevor in his late 40s and estranged from Diana, but still fascinated with this beautiful woman he loved. He would think about the paradise she was born in with a certain desire to see it again, and over time I would tell a story about Steve realizing that he wants to be an amazon. He would grow out his hair and beard and start dressing like them. He would ask to visit the island quite frequently and this thought would keep crawling around in his head without him being able to say it.

    It wouldn't be a story about him realizing he is trans, it would be a story about him realizing that there's something incredibly comforting and right to him about wearing the clothes of the amazons and living like one of them. That it's not just an aspiration, it's the happiest he could be. Would anyone like this story? Hell no. Trans people would see it as me miss interpreting their experiences while conservatives would lose their minds over a comic book showing a military man in a dress, but it would blow up all over social media and get Wonder Woman the most attention she's had since the Dennis O'neil era. For me it would be a deeply touching story about moving beyond gender norms. Trully abolishing the need for gender. And it would be the greatest challenge to the amazons, being able to accept a "man" that wants to live among them, as one of them.

    I mean, of course other things could be done with Steve Trevor, but I just like the idea of this being his role from the very beginning and him having this type of sensitive and difficult journey to navigate. I can't even fathom how Diana would react to all of this but I think it would be a pretty interesting moment for her. Having her whole life turned upside down in a way but allowing her to show her transgressive and nourishing side at it's best.

  3. #3768
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Oh and after a while of living on the island Steve Trevor would enter a polyamorous relationship with two other amazons, neither of which would be Diana. Making the whole legend of Wonder Woman in part about her creator wanting to express how he deeply admired and envied the qualities of the two women he lived with and wanted to be like them, and how all of this was inspired by the greatest woman he ever met, Diana of Themyscira.

  4. #3769
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    (Semi) Controversial...I was a fan of Superman/Wonder Woman dating. It's not something I need to be endgame but I think they'd initially be attracted to one another and would eventually go their separate ways becoming besties.

  5. #3770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    (Semi) Controversial...I was a fan of Superman/Wonder Woman dating. It's not something I need to be endgame but I think they'd initially be attracted to one another and would eventually go their separate ways becoming besties.
    I don't know if that is even controversial at all, sounds a lot like what happened during the Perez era.

  6. #3771
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    In the myths, the Amazons were all daughters of Ares. The identity of the mother varies but Ares conceived Hippolyta, Melanippe, Penthiselia and Antiope with Queen Otrera.
    I'd like that to be incorporated into the comics. Ares being Hippolyta's father I mean. Is that controversial?

  7. #3772
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I'd like that to be incorporated into the comics. Ares being Hippolyta's father I mean. Is that controversial?
    Well I myself don't like the idea, so I guess it's mini controversial. I just think Wonder Woman's connection to the greek gods has hurt her in the grand scheme of things. There was a thread in the DC comics forum where people were pitching DC movies and almost every pitch for Wonder Woman was about her fighting a god. The two exceptions were a pitch about her fighting Vandal Savage and another about her fighting Cheetah I think.

    The Marston era was filled with amazing concepts like the Astral plane and all these different worlds and civilizations and incredible characters, things Superman wouldn't have until the Silver Age, 15 years later. But the only things people know about Wonder Woman is Greek Gods and Amazons.

    Pop culture is filled with references to Bizarro, and Lex Luthor, and Two Face, and Joker, and Batcave, and Fortress of Solitude, and Phantom Zone, and Braniac, and Arkham Asylum, and Daily Planet, and Lois Lane, and Alfred, and Jimmy Olsen, and Comissioner Gordon and his bat signal.

    But Diana doesn't have that. Heck, the only references to her are the bracelets, the lasso and the invisible jet. That's what DC should invest in, her lore. Expand it. Make it huge and iconic. She should have her own worlds and concepts to explore. Not 3000 year old myths from greek culture. Her own lore that people can reference in every day life.

  8. #3773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Well I myself don't like the idea, so I guess it's mini controversial. I just think Wonder Woman's connection to the greek gods has hurt her in the grand scheme of things. There was a thread in the DC comics forum where people were pitching DC movies and almost every pitch for Wonder Woman was about her fighting a god. The two exceptions were a pitch about her fighting Vandal Savage and another about her fighting Cheetah I think.

    The Marston era was filled with amazing concepts like the Astral plane and all these different worlds and civilizations and incredible characters, things Superman wouldn't have until the Silver Age, 15 years later. But the only things people know about Wonder Woman is Greek Gods and Amazons.

    Pop culture is filled with references to Bizarro, and Lex Luthor, and Two Face, and Joker, and Batcave, and Fortress of Solitude, and Phantom Zone, and Braniac, and Arkham Asylum, and Daily Planet, and Lois Lane, and Alfred, and Jimmy Olsen, and Comissioner Gordon and his bat signal.

    But Diana doesn't have that. Heck, the only references to her are the bracelets, the lasso and the invisible jet. That's what DC should invest in, her lore. Expand it. Make it huge and iconic. She should have her own worlds and concepts to explore. Not 3000 year old myths from greek culture. Her own lore that people can reference in every day life.
    Diana doesn't have that because her last live action adaptation prior to the 2017 movie was the Lynda Carter show from the 70s. The connection to ancient mythology is not the problem. Disney built its empire by retelling ancient folklore and stories and Norse myth hasn't hurt Thor. Obviously, how these stories are told matter but the Greek myths is not what is holding Diana back. Especially since most of her critically acclaimed stories focus on it. Iconography is meaningless if it doesn't produce good stories.

  9. #3774
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Diana doesn't have that because her last live action adaptation prior to the 2017 movie was the Lynda Carter show from the 70s. The connection to ancient mythology is not the problem. Disney built its empire by retelling ancient folklore and stories and Norse myth hasn't hurt Thor. Obviously, how these stories are told matter but the Greek myths is not what is holding Diana back. Especially since most of her critically acclaimed stories focus on it. Iconography is meaningless if it doesn't produce good stories.
    Thor is an actual character in Norse mythology though. .

  10. #3775
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Diana doesn't have that because her last live action adaptation prior to the 2017 movie was the Lynda Carter show from the 70s. The connection to ancient mythology is not the problem. Disney built its empire by retelling ancient folklore and stories and Norse myth hasn't hurt Thor. Obviously, how these stories are told matter but the Greek myths is not what is holding Diana back. Especially since most of her critically acclaimed stories focus on it. Iconography is meaningless if it doesn't produce good stories.
    Bizarro never appeared in a movie. Nor did Braniac. People still know these things.

    Greek myths are constantly appearing in other things, the Thor movies are actually the most famous stories about norse myth.

  11. #3776
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Well I myself don't like the idea, so I guess it's mini controversial. I just think Wonder Woman's connection to the greek gods has hurt her in the grand scheme of things. There was a thread in the DC comics forum where people were pitching DC movies and almost every pitch for Wonder Woman was about her fighting a god. The two exceptions were a pitch about her fighting Vandal Savage and another about her fighting Cheetah I think.

    The Marston era was filled with amazing concepts like the Astral plane and all these different worlds and civilizations and incredible characters, things Superman wouldn't have until the Silver Age, 15 years later. But the only things people know about Wonder Woman is Greek Gods and Amazons.

    Pop culture is filled with references to Bizarro, and Lex Luthor, and Two Face, and Joker, and Batcave, and Fortress of Solitude, and Phantom Zone, and Braniac, and Arkham Asylum, and Daily Planet, and Lois Lane, and Alfred, and Jimmy Olsen, and Comissioner Gordon and his bat signal.

    But Diana doesn't have that. Heck, the only references to her are the bracelets, the lasso and the invisible jet. That's what DC should invest in, her lore. Expand it. Make it huge and iconic. She should have her own worlds and concepts to explore. Not 3000 year old myths from greek culture. Her own lore that people can reference in every day life.
    Well, the Amazons' origin is always tied to the greek gods in some way, so it's not like it would make a huge difference. But I do agree that we could use more focus on the non-greek myth stuff.

  12. #3777
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I'd like that to be incorporated into the comics. Ares being Hippolyta's father I mean. Is that controversial?
    I think it's found it's way into the comics sometimes though never really made a major thing.

  13. #3778
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I'd like that to be incorporated into the comics. Ares being Hippolyta's father I mean. Is that controversial?
    I would rather Hippolyta as Ares daughter than Diana as Zeus daughter.

    I even spent quarantine writing a treatment on how that could work as a WW prequel and incorporated Otrera, Penthiselia, Antiope and Melanippe into it as well.

    Hippolyta suffers from being undefined. She could use some stories that fleshes out her backstory and gives her some more agency. In both Marston and Perez versions, she is there to get tricked by Hercules to serve as a cautionary tale and then later becomes a puppet of the gods who does whatever they command.

  14. #3779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Bizarro never appeared in a movie. Nor did Braniac. People still know these things.

    Greek myths are constantly appearing in other things, the Thor movies are actually the most famous stories about norse myth.
    Bizarro and Brainiac have been featured in popular tv shows where Superman was the main star.

    Greek myth gets used a lot but few adaptations are particularly popular. Wonder Woman actually has very little competition in that regard. Just because it's public domain doesn't mean it can't be iconic in its own right. See Castlevania.

  15. #3780
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    (Semi) Controversial...I was a fan of Superman/Wonder Woman dating. It's not something I need to be endgame but I think they'd initially be attracted to one another and would eventually go their separate ways becoming besties.
    I'm with you on that, I was always a fan of them dating even if my reasons were superficial. I understand the reasons for hating it but at the time I personally didn't care.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
    DC: Green Lantern, Wonder Girl, Far Sector, The Other History of the DC Universe, The Next Batamn, Robin, Nightwing
    Marvel: HiXmen, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Daredevil
    Image: Killadelphia, Bitter Root, Excellence, Decorum
    IDW: TMNT: The Last Ronin
    Other: Seven Secrets, Jember, Hawi, Watchman, Black Hammer

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