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  1. #451
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But I do still think we should have her get s city. What would be so wrong with her having a city feel with magical creatures?

    Also why is there a most likely new 52 animated movie? I mean Dc said no more individual character movies. The only reason why I say new 52 movie is her Va is the new 52.
    City thing I have no issue with. Though that said at this point in her career I have trouble seeing one actually stick for more than one run.

    As for the animated movie, the title creates aprehension

  2. #452
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Is it a silly idea of wanting to have the Holliday girls back?

  3. #453
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Is it a silly idea of wanting to have the Holliday girls back?
    Not at all. They are her Man's World equivalent to Amazons, and they are great. So much can be done with them in a modern context. Even Earth One just adding some POCs to the mix is a great improvement and shows how easy they are to modernize, now let's attach some names to the faces and flesh them out.

    Etta was never as good as back when she was the leader of that pack. I'd happily ditch canon Etta and swap her out for EO Etta/Beth in a heartbeat.

  4. #454
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Relatability is a meme. Batman is a billionaire genius level ninja who has mastered every field of science known to man as well as every martial arts and has a photographic memory, who can beat anyone with preptime and has a harem of beautiful women who are desperate to sleep with him, whom he mostly ignores in favor of beating up an assorted gang of freaks, none of whom actually qualify for the legal definition of insane except for 1 or 2. He fights them with the help of underaged boys who all look alike, his cousin, his British secret agent butler, the daughter of the police commissioner, and a wide variety of others. Batman is utterly unlike the average reader and literally none of his fans could be him, and only the utterly delusional think otherwise.

    He’s also the most popular hero on the planet and you know why? Because he’s cool. That’s it, he’s a power fantasy through and through with just enough flaws to keep him from being perfect. Diana could use some things to flesh her out, I wouldn’t mind knowing her favorite music for example, but that stuff is secondary. Embrace the coolness of Diana. She’s a demigod princess raised on a utopian all-women island who can kick butt while also being compassionate enough to do more than just hand out beat downs. She’s got flaws that keep her from being perfect, as well as virtues that make her appealing. She was perfectly relatable and likeable in her movie, to the point she singlehandedly kept the DCEU afloat. I feel like you guys are too down on her these days when there’s so much to be optimistic about.
    To be clear I'm perfectly happy with Wonder Woman right now. I only want more regular stuff to balance out her mythic elements to make her more real.`

  5. #455
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In order for the Holliday girls to be the Amazons how actually should that work? I mean if Diana trains them should they wear any Amazons warrior outfits ?

  6. #456
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But I do still think we should have her get s city. What would be so wrong with her having a city feel with magical creatures?

    Also why is there a most likely new 52 animated movie? I mean Dc said no more individual character movies. The only reason why I say new 52 movie is her Va is the new 52.
    Giving the WW comic a 'city feel' wouldn't have to be a rigid or inflexible element in the comic. It could be a sometimesy thing. Exotic adventures in faraway, strange places could frequently break that up, ..as in #70, with the trip to Atlantiades's 'sextown' - as with battling Atomia, in her subatomic universe. I am with you in feeling strongly that an iconic city, filled with bizarre citizens, like Aphrodite or Ferdinand, sprinkled amidst normal humans, like Maggie and Steve, ..could be a rich resource for stories, unfolding between the big, faraway epic adventures.

    As before, I still think Diana's iconic city should be DC Comics capital-of-the-weird, even if she only spent a third or fourth of her annual panel-time, there. Iconic city, classic regular cast...the WW comic needs something for readers to emotionally invest in and look forward to, besides the Island.

    To echo Koriand'r, I'd like to see Diana, Maggie and 'Phro' hanging out and doing ordinary things, once in a while. What's a dot-sale at Kanigher's department store look like? Since she literally LIVES on a beach, now, ..why don't Di and her friends ever do a bonfire, out there? Does Phro have a fave nightspot in Virginia Shore or Georgetown? Does Di have a favorite coffeehouse, where she can be attacked by genies, ..and can we tag along, once in awhile? Can the WW comic give us something familiar to attach to?

    This speaks to a chronic problem in the WW comic, and that is the lack of anything of any consequence that is regular and recurring. Without that, nothing in WW can ever become classic, ..and I think that's a shame. Furthermore, how can a so-called natural archenemy ever grow out of the on-going, Wonder-narrative, when no such narrative exists? Could that be why, in spite of their many appearances in the comic, Ares, Cheetah or Circe still don't feel like natural 'best enemies' for Diana, ..anymore than Etta feels like a true best friend?

    On a sidebar...I'm still a 'two WW comic solution' guy. While Wonder Woman could base her in Georgetown or Gateway, with far-flung adventures in other places, ..Sensational World of Wonder Woman or a new Sensation Comics could be a comic, entirely devoted to magic and Greek myth-inspired stories - Diana on the Island, having adventures with her Amazon sisters. Two comic solution, folks!

    Are Mizuno and I the only ones feeling this weird city thing?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 05-19-2019 at 04:13 AM.
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  7. #457
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Ive no problem with the city thing. Its just that over the years of comics shes been based out of Washington DC, New York City, Houston, the Island, Greenwich, Boston, Gateway City, London.
    But because every time a new writer comes on they like to change Wonder Womans city so they can have their own special spin on Wonder Woman just like how writers like to make their own new Cheetah or Silver Swan to have their own special spin on them too, I just don't see it happening.

    On a side note, if we did get the Holliday college back, id imagine something loosley similar to the tv show 'Eureka' but with more comic booky mad science. Use it as an excuse to collect a bunch of mad science types as teaching types like Professor Zee, Professor Psycho, and Professor Andro on top of old classic types such as Professors Chemico, Zool, Homo, Toxino, Astronomo, and Turgo.

  8. #458
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Ive no problem with the city thing. Its just that over the years of comics shes been based out of Washington DC, New York City, Houston, the Island, Greenwich, Boston, Gateway City, London.
    But because every time a new writer comes on they like to change Wonder Womans city so they can have their own special spin on Wonder Woman just like how writers like to make their own new Cheetah or Silver Swan to have their own special spin on them too, I just don't see it happening.
    I think the best way is to do like SHG and stop treating Paradise Island/Themiscyra as off limits. It's WW's hometown. You don't need to tell all her stories there, just have it as her base of operations when she's not doing superhero stuff. Superman and Batman don't stay in Metropolis and Gotham. They do superhero stuff wherever they feel they are needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    There are also more than one way to build relatability in a fictional character. One is the idea that there must be some form of recognition or identification from the reader onto the character, but that's only one way. If we take Wonder Woman as an example, she is practically tailer-made for another form of relatability, that is that she consciously relates to all the people around her. The movie managed that to great effect.
    The fish-out-of-water thing is SUPER relatable to a lot of people since society has so many sub-divisions.

    It's easy to feel out-of-place or like an outsider looking in when in a social situation that's unfamiliar to you. It's a daily struggle for some people to relate to others in society. So for a superhero to struggle with that IS relatable to many people.

    Like the Iron Man example: many people drink to forget their problems. It's not a virtue, it's weakness. Very few people would even consider it a trait they like. But to a lot of people it's familiar. They may not suffer from it, but probably know someone with that problem or have met someone like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Relatability is a meme. Batman is a billionaire genius level ninja who has mastered every field of science known to man as well as every martial arts and has a photographic memory, who can beat anyone with preptime and has a harem of beautiful women who are desperate to sleep with him, whom he mostly ignores in favor of beating up an assorted gang of freaks, none of whom actually qualify for the legal definition of insane except for 1 or 2. He fights them with the help of underaged boys who all look alike, his cousin, his British secret agent butler, the daughter of the police commissioner, and a wide variety of others. Batman is utterly unlike the average reader and literally none of his fans could be him, and only the utterly delusional think otherwise.
    Yeah, comics are often about wish fulfillment and not about realism. Batman is likable because people wish they could be him. They can't relate to him because most of his problems are thigns that you only see in comic books.

  9. #459
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It’s not so much superhero stuff rather where she will live when she isn’t going to paradise island. Marston did this. She can have both

  10. #460
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Ive no problem with the city thing. Its just that over the years of comics shes been based out of Washington DC, New York City, Houston, the Island, Greenwich, Boston, Gateway City, London.
    But because every time a new writer comes on they like to change Wonder Womans city so they can have their own special spin on Wonder Woman just like how writers like to make their own new Cheetah or Silver Swan to have their own special spin on them too, I just don't see it happening...
    Have to agree, there. This is an editorial problem, and I can't guess why WW editors won't use their editorial to give the comic a regular cast, setting...etc. I don't want to hi-jack the thread on this topic, anyway; it was just an idea, I've had for the last fifteen or so years.

    I think it's far more controversial that Wonder Woman doesn't seem to have a natural enemy, one who has organically grown out of the on-going narrative, ..if we can call anything in the WW comic, on-going. Ares, who might be the closest thing she's had to an archenemy, since the Golden Age, ..just seems to pop out of nowhere, with virtually no relevance to anything happening, at the times of his appearances. Basically, Ares is filler, and all of Diana's foes seem tacked on or propped up, and they shouldn't, in 2019.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 05-19-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Giving the WW comic a 'city feel' wouldn't have to be a rigid or inflexible element in the comic. It could be a sometimesy thing. Exotic adventures in faraway, strange places could frequently break that up, ..as in #70, with the trip to Atlantiades's 'sextown' - as with battling Atomia, in her subatomic universe. I am with you in feeling strongly that an iconic city, filled with bizarre citizens, like Aphrodite or Ferdinand, sprinkled amidst normal humans, like Maggie and Steve, ..could be a rich resource for stories, unfolding between the big, faraway epic adventures.

    As before, I still think Diana's iconic city should be DC Comics capital-of-the-weird, even if she only spent a third or fourth of her annual panel-time, there. Iconic city, classic regular cast...the WW comic needs something for readers to emotionally invest in and look forward to, besides the Island.

    To echo Koriand'r, I'd like to see Diana, Maggie and 'Phro' hanging out and doing ordinary things, once in a while. What's a dot-sale at Kanigher's department store look like? Since she literally LIVES on a beach, now, ..why don't Di and her friends ever do a bonfire, out there? Does Phro have a fave nightspot in Virginia Shore or Georgetown? Does Di have a favorite coffeehouse, where she can be attacked by genies, ..and can we tag along, once in awhile? Can the WW comic give us something familiar to attach to?

    This speaks to a chronic problem in the WW comic, and that is the lack of anything of any consequence that is regular and recurring. Without that, nothing in WW can ever become classic, ..and I think that's a shame. Furthermore, how can a so-called natural archenemy ever grow out of the on-going, Wonder-narrative, when no such narrative exists? Could that be why, in spite of their many appearances in the comic, Ares, Cheetah or Circe still don't feel like natural 'best enemies' for Diana, ..anymore than Etta feels like a true best friend?

    On a sidebar...I'm still a 'two WW comic solution' guy. While Wonder Woman could base her in Georgetown or Gateway, with far-flung adventures in other places, ..Sensational World of Wonder Woman or a new Sensation Comics could be a comic, entirely devoted to magic and Greek myth-inspired stories - Diana on the Island, having adventures with her Amazon sisters. Two comic solution, folks!

    Are Mizuno and I the only ones feeling this weird city thing?
    You know as I was reading the above it stuck out that it is focused on the audience reception. In a lot of ways I think the DC PTB or the "creative" persons they employ might need to be considered. A friend shared a recent JL issue and I noticed a similar phenomenon as that observed during Geoff John's DARKSEID WAR event. That is to say a concept whose DNA already exists in standard WW mythology being focused upon and elevated to a major plot point.

    BUT attributed to Batman.

    While WW yet again stands about and is ineffective in everything except as a cheerleader (this time for Aquaman).

    So it might be that as these stories are plotted or developed that editorial should perhaps point out the coolness of WW or at least the existence in the WW wheelhouse of the concept being put forth. This last one in JL is so obvious for WW and it is a real headscratcher that they try to make it a Batman concept. At least they could used Green Lantern (which is still not as good a fit as WW who has 70 plus years of stories dealing with that particular concept).

    It sometimes feels like DC is just on life support.

  12. #462
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Honestly I think Wonder Woman would be better off if she was completly unconnected to DC Comics and its comic universe, and was just its own thing.

  13. #463
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The best way to do that is if it's a elsewhere story. Where Diana is one of the heroes. Now the only issue is how some of Diana's villains and supporting cast are important to other franchise. Like Donna, Cassie and Teen titan

  14. #464
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Honestly I think Wonder Woman would be better off if she was completly unconnected to DC Comics and its comic universe, and was just its own thing.
    I don't completely disagree. I'd say the same about Superman.

  15. #465
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    We need a lot more Wonder concepts brought to the forefront to deepen her mythology and explore more of her world and tackle important themes. I don't need these to be parallels to the spaces and places that Superman and Batman operate, but they're there and they'd invariably help in fleshing out characters and stories in the Wonder world:

    Metropolis is to Gotham is to [REDACTED] - Diana needs her own fictional city that reflects part of her nature. (I've settled on my idea for that city and it's name.)

    Wayne Manor is to Smallville is to Themyscira. It's home and where their Bildungsroman tales began.

    The Batcave is to the Fortress of Solitude is to ???. Where's Diana's unique space, that's all her own an reflects her Wonder-ness.

    The Past is to Krypton is Themyscira, or perhaps Olympus. This one is a bit tricky, depending on how you approach Diana, but I'd argue that Bruce Wayne can never get his parents back, Superman can never get his home world back, and Diana is an Amazon outlier for choosing to leave paradise and giving up her immortality (again, depending on which version you choose.) But, I'd make the case that thematically she's giving up parts of her family and community for undertaking the role and responsibilities of Wonder Woman. (The "you can never go home again" theme.)

    Blackgate Prison and Arkham Asylum is to Striker's Island and the Phantom Zone is to Transformation Island and Doom's Doorway. TI is such a wildly different approach to criminal incarceration and reform, that it boggles my mind that no one has thought to bring this back and use it. I mean, juxtaposed to Arkham, it's such an interesting concept to develop.

    WayneTech is to STARLabs and Cadmus is to ARGUS. I've said it before (and I'll keep saying it) that ARGUS is perfectly suited for Diana and her history. A quasi military and peacekeeping force tasked with researching and collecting magical, mystical, technological, alien, etc. artifacts and bringing those who'd use the nature of the DCU for evil to justice. It plays nicely to her history as an intelligence officer, her mythological background, her intelligence and problem-solving skills, her status as an action-adventure hero, her integrity at keeping shadowy government agencies at bay, etc.

    WayneTech is to the Daily Planet is to Holliday University. Alongside ARGUS, Diana Prince needs a day job. She'd be perfect as a guest lecturer at Holliday University and speaker/restorer at [REDACTED] City's museums of art and antiquities - run by Helena Sandsmark of course.

    The League of Shadows/Assassins and Leviathan is to The 100/Superman Revenge Squad is to Villainy Inc., the Academy of Arch-Villains, Godwatch, etc. The most collectively villainous group we've gotten in the modern age is Godwatch, with a side of Villainy Inc. in the Jimenez run. Not that The 100 or SRS have shown up a lot, but it's incredibly frustrating that we haven't seen groups of Wonder foes band together, build relationships with one another, and tear each other apart. It's exciting when a writer taps into the interpersonal relationships of villains. We need more of that.

    I could go on and on about the invisible jet and Catwoman and Lois Lane and the Batfamily and Superfam, but that's enough for now. You get the point.

    I swear if I could be the editor for a Wonder office and was given two great writers, artists, pencilists, colorists, etc., and two bimonthly titles, I could revolutionize the World of Wonder with added depth and meaningful places and spaces to explore Wonder Woman as a character. Call me DC!

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