Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[John Venus]

Being able to sit with Luthor and Joker is one of the metrics for an archenemy just not the primary one.

An archenemy should have more going for them than feeling like a kitten whose been kicked one too many times.

[I'm a Fish]

I like Perez’s Barbara of corse, but I felt the biggest problem with her character was that she had no established long term goals. Her relationship to Diana was that she wanted something Diana had, and after she was defeated writers didn’t know what to do with her for a while. Perez didn’t really give her a clear new direction before he left, and I doubt it was something he was thinking about, which is totally fine but other writers had to pick up the slack. Plus Perez didn’t write Cheetah with the intent of making her Diana’s archenemy, that was clearly Circe. Cheetah just got shoved there due to popularity.

Lobes had Barbara become Diana’s friend. Jimenez gave her the boot. And despite my dislike of Rucka’s first version of Cheetah he at least established that she just wants to hurt Diana because she hates her. Which is petty, but they are villains and that’s really all they need. Simone continue that Barbara just hates Diana and wants her dead, but would like to make her suffer first.

Rucka’s second run gave Cheetah an actual goal of killing the gods and taking revenge on the Amazon’s. Which is a cool premise which sadly came with mixed results since I don’t think Wilson or Orlando went as big with it as they should have. Honestly they should have had Cheetah scale the cliffs of Mount Olympus by her self or something, IDK.

[Psy-lock]

I like Perez’s Barbara of corse, but I felt the biggest problem with her character was that she had no established long term goals. Her relationship to Diana was that she wanted something Diana had, and after she was defeated writers didn’t know what to do with her for a while. Perez didn’t really give her a clear new direction before he left, and I doubt it was something he was thinking about, which is totally fine but other writers had to pick up the slack. Plus Perez didn’t write Cheetah with the intent of making her Diana’s archenemy, that was clearly Circe. Cheetah just got shoved there due to popularity.

Lobes had Barbara become Diana’s friend. Jimenez gave her the boot. And despite my dislike of Rucka’s first version of Cheetah he at least established that she just wants to hurt Diana because she hates her. Which is petty, but they are villains and that’s really all they need. Simone continue that Barbara just hates Diana and wants her dead, but would like to make her suffer first.

Rucka’s second run gave Cheetah an actual goal of killing the gods and taking revenge on the Amazon’s. Which is a cool premise which sadly came with mixed results since I don’t think Wilson or Orlando went as big with it as they should have. Honestly they should have had Cheetah scale the cliffs of Mount Olympus by her self or something, IDK.

The reasons Perez gave her for going against Diana specifically were pretty flimsy, but she would've been a villain with or without Diana. It seems to me that he was going for a colonizer/cultural appropriationist theme with Barbara, there's a reason he made her a British noblewoman/archeologist and gave her an African servant. A villain who desecrates other people's cultures sounds pretty thematically appropriate for Diana, though it's not necessarily an arch-enemy material.

[I'm a Fish]

Being able to sit with Luthor and Joker is one of the metrics for an archenemy just not the primary one.

An archenemy should have more going for them than feeling like a kitten whose been kicked one too many times.

It’s that “kicked kitten” the origin they keep giving Joker now? The Killing Joke and his movie both did it.

Edit: Plus the Perez version still had the abusive relationship aspects and continually made a victim by Urzkartaga and later Circe. Difference was, she was a terrible person before she got cursed. And whereas in the Perez’s run the abusive relationship was the undertone, in Rucka’s run it was the overtone.

The reasons Perez gave her for going against Diana specifically were pretty flimsy, but she would've been a villain with or without Diana. It seems to me that he was going for a colonizer/cultural appropriationist theme with Barbara, there's a reason he made her a British noblewoman/archeologist and gave her an African servant. A villain who desecrates other people's cultures sounds pretty thematically appropriate for Diana, though it's not necessarily an arch-enemy material.

It always struck me that Perez wanted Barbara to be the anti-Julia. They are about the same age, both archeologists, but while Julia is kind, loving and respective of peoples culture, Barbara is cruel and selfish and just wanted to take objects of value because she cared about how much money they where worth.
And yeah, post-crisis Barbara was just overall an unpleasant woman to be be around, and was operating as Cheetah years before Diana showed up. Diana’s arrival didn’t impact Barbara becoming a villain.

[Agent Z]

It’s that “kicked kitten” the origin they keep giving Joker now? The Killing Joke and his movie both did it.

It also describes Smallville Lex and he's considered the best take on the character next to DCAU and Supergirl Lois.

He didn't even start acting like an out and out villain until season 5.

[Alpha]

And yeah, post-crisis Barbara was just overall an unpleasant woman to be be around, and was operating as Cheetah years before Diana showed up. Diana’s arrival didn’t impact Barbara becoming a villain.

Those aren't inherently bad things. In fact, while I can appreciate Cheetah in Year One, I still think a reworked version of Priscilla Rich is far superior. But without any of the redeemable aspects of the character, just a sickly vicious woman addicted to the anger of the Cheetah spirit. A sedated Cruella de Vil that spenda most of her time nauseated and feeling hangover, until she puts on that skin of the cheetah and gains immense power and thirst for violence. I just think the idea of the curse has a short shelf life.

[SiegePerilous02]

Those aren't inherently bad things. In fact, while I can appreciate Cheetah in Year One, I still think a reworked version of Priscilla Rich is far superior. But without any of the redeemable aspects of the character, just a sickly vicious woman addicted to the anger of the Cheetah spirit. A sedated Cruella de Vil that spenda most of her time nauseated and feeling hangover, until she puts on that skin of the cheetah and gains immense power and thirst for violence. I just think the idea of the curse has a short shelf life.

A Cruella-like take on Priscilla would be pretty awesome. The trailers for the movie (especially the Florence + the Machine song and its lyrics) have certain bits that would apply to an unhinged diva like Priscilla pretty well.

"There's always a line to the gates of Hell
But I go right to the front, because I dress this well"

[I'm a Fish]

Those aren't inherently bad things. In fact, while I can appreciate Cheetah in Year One, I still think a reworked version of Priscilla Rich is far superior. But without any of the redeemable aspects of the character, just a sickly vicious woman addicted to the anger of the Cheetah spirit. A sedated Cruella de Vil that spenda most of her time nauseated and feeling hangover, until she puts on that skin of the cheetah and gains immense power and thirst for violence. I just think the idea of the curse has a short shelf life.

Of corse being unpleasant isn’t a bad thing if you’re a villain. I love sassy, unpleasant villains, you can get some fun villain/hero interactions with those characters.

I like the curse aspect because it’s a polar opposite to Diana’s blessing. Whether it was Diana being brought to life from clay or given her powers by a blessing from the gods, there’s often been a semblance of a blessing in Wonder Woman.

I think having a villain who gets their power from a curse is a neat twist on the idea. But I do love Pricilla, I love Debbie too actually. Debbie had some great highlights in her short tenure as Cheetah.

[Psy-lock]

Of corse being unpleasant isn’t a bad thing if you’re a villain. I love sassy, unpleasant villains, you can get some fun villain/hero interactions with those characters.

I like the curse aspect because it’s a polar opposite to Diana’s blessing. Whether it was Diana being brought to life from clay or given her powers by a blessing from the gods, there’s often been a semblance of a blessing in Wonder Woman.

I think having a villain who gets their power from a curse is a neat twist on the idea. But I do love Pricilla, I love Debbie too actually. Debbie had some great highlights in her short tenure as Cheetah.

Debbie had some cool moments, but her existence always seemed kinda pointless to me. I mean there's no reason why she couldn't have been a rehabilitated Priscilla seeking redemption by helping protect the environment.

[WonderLight789]

I don't think DC has suddenly found new love and interest for WW and her lore. Even if they are pushing some more content than usual. To me it is all a facade. I can't trust them anymore after so many messy things.

[Gaius]

I don't think DC has suddenly found new love and interest for WW and her lore. Even if they are pushing some more content than usual. To me it is all a facade. I can't trust them anymore after so many messy things.

Well, yeah? Look whose anniversary year it is but which of the "trinity" isn't getting a show.

[John Venus]

The reasons Perez gave her for going against Diana specifically were pretty flimsy, but she would've been a villain with or without Diana. It seems to me that he was going for a colonizer/cultural appropriationist theme with Barbara, there's a reason he made her a British noblewoman/archeologist and gave her an African servant. A villain who desecrates other people's cultures sounds pretty thematically appropriate for Diana, though it's not necessarily an arch-enemy material.

This.

There were elements in Perez's run that could have developed into something greater. There was something about the whole 'evil Lara Croft' angle with Barbara which I found intriguing. Diana is about truth, compassion and she got her abilities as a gift. Barbara is about lies, ruthlessness and she stole and cheated her way into power.

It’s that “kicked kitten” the origin they keep giving Joker now? The Killing Joke and his movie both did it.

Edit: Plus the Perez version still had the abusive relationship aspects and continually made a victim by Urzkartaga and later Circe. Difference was, she was a terrible person before she got cursed. And whereas in the Perez’s run the abusive relationship was the undertone, in Rucka’s run it was the overtone.

Joker isn't the best example since most Joker schoff at any attempts to give him a definitive origin and they prefer the 'multiple choice origin' approach.

I guess it's a matter of what resonates with the writer and the audience. I wasn't a fan of the 'cursed because she was a virgin' aspect of Cheetah's origin but Rucka felt differently. I much prefer the evil archaeologist angle.

[Robanker]

Well, yeah? Look whose anniversary year it is but which of the "trinity" isn't getting a show.

But Gaius, that's not lipservice. We don't know how to do anything else with Diana!

[Gitagon]

I still remember when Batman and Superman got animated shorts for their anniversaries a few years ago while Wonder Woman got nothing. In fact, Batman got like 3 animated shorts, Superman had like 1 while Wonder Woman only got a collage of various era comics getting flipped. Like what! They couldn't even make a 3 minute animation for her when everyone else got one. I think even Green Lantern got one that year.

[WonderLight789]

Wonder Woman would be better without WB and DC. This is an unpopular opinion. Because many people still think that leaving DC is not a guarantee that she would get better treatment somewhere else. But i think at this point, after 80 years of DC handling, or more like mishandling for the most part. It is safe to say anybody else could do a better job, since the standard is so low at this point. Marvel already found a way to turn d list characters into relevant and successful characters for the GP. While DC still does the bare minimun with the so called most important and iconic female hero. There are no excuses anymore.