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  1. #4726
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Is the Zeus origin even leaving any impression on the wider audiences? The revelation was in the last act as a plot device explanation for her powers and one brief dumb mention in the sequel that everyone probably already forgot.
    You could say that at the least they aren't turned off it on principle. Whether that means they will accept the original backstory is another question.

    The origin sucks but I don't think it's reached "the Joker killed Batman's parents" levels and they were eventually able to get rid of that
    Well it helps Joker killing Bruce's parents only happened in one movie and didn't originate in the comics. It was also ignored in other adaptations though I guess if you stretch it, they used that origin in Joker (2019).

  2. #4727
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Dr. Poison hasn't been a major villain in the comics since the Golden Age ended. Her appearances post-Marston have either been as someone's lackey or in an ensemble. That's been the case long before the New 52.

    In fact, New 52 was the first time in decades Poison was a major independent villain.

    Hum, Dr Poison had a two part storyline all about her in the Eric Luke run. I'm not saying it's a big deal, but even Giganta has never had a story arc just about her
    Last edited by Alpha; 09-12-2021 at 06:28 AM.

  3. #4728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Hum, Dr Poison had a two part storyline all about her in the Eric Luke run. I'm not saying it's a big deal, but even Giganta has never had a story arc just about her
    The two part story wasn't an arc in itself. It was a part of an arc and Poison was a pawn being used by Devastation. Giganta not having an arc like that isn't really saying much and she's arguably been more prominent in modern times than Dr. Poison.

  4. #4729
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You're right. What actually happens in the movie is.


    The movie doesn't show much from Pre 52 era. Where do you see the big presence from Marston, Perez, Ruka, Jimenez etc in the movie? I don't see it.

    Dr. Poison hasn't been a major villain in the comics since the Golden Age ended. Her appearances post-Marston have either been as someone's lackey or in an ensemble. That's been the case long before the New 52.

    In fact, New 52 was the first time in decades Poison was a major independent villain.



    This is exactly what happens to them in their origin in the Perez run.

    And the Amazons still won that fight in the movie.




    What real ending?

    Your argument that the movie is mostly based on the New 52 boils down to the Amazons not being as powerful as you want and Diana not flying. The former was the case in Perez and the latter isn't even something that happened in the New 52 since she flew all the time.


    By what criteria?
    The movie doesn't have a big presence from pre 52 material. Marston, Ruka, Jimenez etc. I didn't see much from pre 52 in the movie.

    No it isn't. They were tricked by Hercules in Perez run and druged by him. They later free themselves and beat his men. Amazons during Perez and Post Crisis showed strength and power well above anything DCEU amazons showed.

    WW making Ares realize the impact of his plan. Like she did in the Perez run. That was supposed to be the ending at first from what i heard.

    By the creteria that usually their portrayal is more in line with their comic lore. Not so much DCEU SM. But i was talking in general. Most of the time, they have been portrayed better than her in adaptations.

  5. #4730
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    If Patty could have had her real ending against Ares. Then yes, i would have noticed Perez's presence more.
    But then you would've complained that she's a weakling for being unable to beat Ares in a fight

  6. #4731
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    The movie doesn't have a big presence from pre 52 material. Marston, Ruka, Jimenez etc. I didn't see much from pre 52 in the movie.
    Then I don't know what movie you watched. It's an adaptation of Perez and Marston's origin for Diana, uses characters created by both of them and the only thing it borrows from the New 52 run is the Zeus origin.

    No it isn't. They were tricked by Hercules in Perez run and druged by him. They later free themselves and beat his men.
    The Amazons didn't free themselves. The goddesses helped them.

    WW making Ares realize the impact of his plan. Like she did in the Perez run. That was supposed to be the ending at first from what i heard.
    I've never heard of this supposed planned ending and I doubt there is any truth to it. Furthermore, Diana killing Ares was done in Simone's run, so there is another bit of pre-52 influence.

    By the creteria that usually their portrayal is more in line with their comic lore.
    If we applied your standards for the WW movie to Superman and Batman adaptations, that wouldn't be true. Their movies and tv shows have taken far greater liberties than the WW movie did.

  7. #4732
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Statements from the movie people isn't everything. I look at the movie, and i don't see much from Marston, Perez or anything pre 52. Just because they used characters that existed before New 52, doesn't mean they actually paid attention to WW lore before that in a real deep way. Dr Poison was there as a secondary villain. Just like New 52 treated her. The amzons were never as weak as they are in the DCEU. Marston, Perez, Jimenez, or any other take on comic amazons wouldn't be getting wrecked by normal weapons and soldiers. If Patty could have had her real ending against Ares. Then yes, i would have noticed Perez's presence more. But as it is. I barely felt anything from before new 52 in the movie. Usually Superman and Batman's worlds are better represented in the movie verses. Making sure to take pieces from different important eras of the characters. I didn't see much of that with WW 2017. It was a good movie. But very new 52 in most aspects. Usually DC and WB don't try that hard with WW. So the bar is already low from the get go. It's nice that it all turned out right and it was proven that she could carry a movie. But much like in the comics, it'd be nice to see a more organized and ambitious plan to handle this franchise.
    Batman yes, Superman no. We still have yet to have a big budget Superman movie that doesn’t star Lex or Zod as the Big Bad. The current DCEU Superman doesn’t even get a Fortress of Solitude or the Legion or anything cool to be perfectly blunt. WW is at least getting a third movie so hopefully they correct from the mistakes of WW84, but she’s had three of her villains on the big screen: Ares, Poison, and Cheetah. Maxwell Lord is also seen as a “WW Rogue” as much as I know you guys hate him .
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Is the Zeus origin even leaving any impression on the wider audiences? The revelation was in the last act as a plot device explanation for her powers and one brief dumb mention in the sequel that everyone probably already forgot.

    The origin sucks but I don't think it's reached "the Joker killed Batman's parents" levels and they were eventually able to get rid of that
    It’s leaving an impact because they consistently use it across the board as her origin in everything now. She’s Zeus kid in JL Action, Injustice, the DCEU, it’s still canon in the comics for right now. Curious if they keep it as her origin for the new shared universe they’re doing.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #4733
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Batman yes, Superman no. We still have yet to have a big budget Superman movie that doesn’t star Lex or Zod as the Big Bad. The current DCEU Superman doesn’t even get a Fortress of Solitude or the Legion or anything cool to be perfectly blunt. WW is at least getting a third movie so hopefully they correct from the mistakes of WW84, but she’s had three of her villains on the big screen: Ares, Poison, and Cheetah. Maxwell Lord is also seen as a “WW Rogue” as much as I know you guys hate him .
    Superman still has more of his villains represented in DCEU though (Faora, Doomsday, Mercy, Bloodsport).

  9. #4734
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    If we go beyond movies, the tv shows also tend to show more of his rogues gallery.

    I'd say the issue is less that Superman and Batman's worlds are better presented and more that they tend to get presented way more than Diana's.

  10. #4735
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Superman still has more of his villains represented in DCEU though (Faora, Doomsday, Mercy, Bloodsport).
    Of those only Faora and Bloodsport are “accurate” and only Faora was actually in a Superman movie. Doomsday is literally just zombie Zod and Mercy gets killed like “Jimmy Olsen” having done and accomplished nothing in the same movie she’s introduced (plus Mercy is not an important or big character in Superman comics anyway). Hardly call those “respectful”.

    Plus Gadot WW is getting a third movie and Cavill isn’t getting another solo movie any time soon if ever, so she’s clearly afforded more trust and leeway than he is.

    Film side Superman sucks but I have alternate routes like TV and animation so overall I would say Supes is better treated than Wondy. Just not on the film side specifically.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #4736
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    But then you would've complained that she's a weakling for being unable to beat Ares in a fight
    Actually no. Because i didn't like the movie because of the action. The action was nothing special. I liked it because of Gadot's charm and chemistry with Pine. I liked Diana's voice. And the no man lan was a cool scene.

  12. #4737
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Then I don't know what movie you watched. It's an adaptation of Perez and Marston's origin for Diana, uses characters created by both of them and the only thing it borrows from the New 52 run is the Zeus origin.



    The Amazons didn't free themselves. The goddesses helped them.



    I've never heard of this supposed planned ending and I doubt there is any truth to it. Furthermore, Diana killing Ares was done in Simone's run, so there is another bit of pre-52 influence.



    If we applied your standards for the WW movie to Superman and Batman adaptations, that wouldn't be true. Their movies and tv shows have taken far greater liberties than the WW movie did.
    Where did you see the big influence from Marston and Perez? I didn't see it. Dr Poison being there in a very small role doesn't strike as a big Pre 52 influence.

    They had help from the Gods to free themselves. Still Hercules tricked them. They were not beaten. They were tricked. The amazons in Perez were still considerably stronger than the DCEU amazons.

    Well i did.

    I apply the fact that most adaptations are usually kinder to them than her. JL cartoon, Flashpoint, Injustice(not so much SM, but BM), etc.

  13. #4738
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Batman yes, Superman no. We still have yet to have a big budget Superman movie that doesn’t star Lex or Zod as the Big Bad. The current DCEU Superman doesn’t even get a Fortress of Solitude or the Legion or anything cool to be perfectly blunt. WW is at least getting a third movie so hopefully they correct from the mistakes of WW84, but she’s had three of her villains on the big screen: Ares, Poison, and Cheetah. Maxwell Lord is also seen as a “WW Rogue” as much as I know you guys hate him .

    It’s leaving an impact because they consistently use it across the board as her origin in everything now. She’s Zeus kid in JL Action, Injustice, the DCEU, it’s still canon in the comics for right now. Curious if they keep it as her origin for the new shared universe they’re doing.
    All WW villains in movies have had secondary roles. Dr Poison and Cheetah. Who was complete garbage in WW84. A weaklink and a rushed and too simplistic motive to go dark.

  14. #4739
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The two part story wasn't an arc in itself. It was a part of an arc and Poison was a pawn being used by Devastation. Giganta not having an arc like that isn't really saying much and she's arguably been more prominent in modern times than Dr. Poison.
    First of all, she wasn't taking orders from Devastation. The only thing Devastation did was give her the blood of a god. And she had a much bigger impact there than in the new 52. It was because of Dr Poison that Rama unleashed his violent side and had to abandon Diana. She took away Diana's main ally in that run. Compare that to what she did in the new 52 and rebirth.

  15. #4740
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Of those only Faora and Bloodsport are “accurate” and only Faora was actually in a Superman movie. Doomsday is literally just zombie Zod and Mercy gets killed like “Jimmy Olsen” having done and accomplished nothing in the same movie she’s introduced (plus Mercy is not an important or big character in Superman comics anyway). Hardly call those “respectful”.
    Well, I wouldn't call the handling of Ares and Cheetah "respectful" or "accurate" either. Poison was fine, but mostly because simply being in a movie is a win for such a minor villain.

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