Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Gaius]

Of the prominent female writers on WW, we've had Simone of course and Murchison as the OG female writer. Other than that, the only significant female writers of note on this title (which is pretty bad when you think about it, that we've had so few) we've had Mindy Newell working with Perez, Meredith Finch, Jodi Picoult and G. Willow Wilson. Even if the latter three turned in sucky work, I don't think we need to attribute it to some internalized sexism. At least with Picoult and Wilson, that doesn't seem fair when looking at their entire body of work. It's just not a character (maybe even a genre?) that generally suits them.

I don't think we have anything to worry about with DeConnick either, as far as the Amazons go.

I feel this emboldened part is probably more emblematic of sexism in DC in regards to WW than stuff from the woman writers who did get on the book.

[Robanker]

Yeah really, she pointed out sexism in comics back in the 90's with her blog.

I also don't think Willison or Tamaki have ever written an ongoing male lead superhero comic, or even a male lead comic in general... (I might be wrong though).

Edit: Also Marrison has depowered Superman in the past, is that sexist? I don't know what we are judging as sexist here. Which is why I encourage that if others wish to continue this conversation they should create a new thread for it.

My problems with FC stem from turning Mary Marvel, a character made to be a good kid with a pure heart and usually a minor, turned into a sleeve for a masculine torture entity to slide into and dress up in fetish gear. Batman and Superman get to struggle and overcome all odds to topple the very root of all evil but Diana, the premier superheroine, gets reduced to a living pathogen that destroys the world and then becomes the extension of a male entity's domination of all life (Darkseid).

All the women in that book are pawns or subservient. I don't think it was intended that way and I wouldn't ever consider Morrison a sexist, but that work kind of feels that way. Lois is semi fridged to bench Superman. Black Canary gets saved by Ollie sacrificing himself. I don't really recall much of Supergirl's role other than gracing the cover in issue three and looking like she can't remember if she appears in the damn issue or not.

By the end, the boys got to do something cool and only Nubia got a cool moment and it's one panel of tell not show.

I get that they wanted the book to end with the world's finest saving the day, alright, but it needed to be more even handed and give Diana something to do earlier. Instead, THE female superhero was turned into Darkseid's glorified enforcer.

[SiegePerilous02]

My problems with FC stem from turning Mary Marvel, a character made to be a good kid with a pure heart and usually a minor, turned into a sleeve for a masculine torture entity to slide into and dress up in fetish gear. Batman and Superman get to struggle and overcome all odds to topple the very root of all evil but Diana, the premier superheroine, gets reduced to a living pathogen that destroys the world and then becomes the extension of a male entity's domination of all life (Darkseid).

I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.

[marhawkman]

To be fair... Black Mary was a cool idea. It's the evil version that's icky.

[Robanker]

I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.

Oh, it was. Morrison can't help but whine about the comic book industry in most their projects for DC of late, even if it's usually done well.

But the problem is that while Mary was commentary on that track... it was also an example of that track and the character never got out from under it. So it's not too far off from someone trying to use a slur ironically, but they're still using a slur. Final Crisis was a huge miss for me even if there are parts of it I genuinely adore.

[SiegePerilous02]

Oh, it was. Morrison can't help but whine about the comic book industry in most their projects for DC of late, even if it's usually done well.

Yeah, I can't say I disagree with them most of the time, but this instance was definitely a swing and a miss. 100% agree with the intent, but the execution was lousy and contributed to more of the issue.

I love the Superman Beyond stuff, but Final Crisis in general was too self indulgent and the Mary and WW stuff doesn't help.

[Gaius]

I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.

I felt some stuff like that, and some of the other stuff they were going for, it'd have probably been better to a story using pastiches of the characters than the actual ones.

[Agent Z]

If Morrison had an issue with the way DC had written female characters then maybe they could have solved it by not writing them that way.

[Robanker]

If Morrison had an issue with the way DC had written female characters then maybe they could have solved it by not writing them that way.

Not meta enough and you can't stick it to editors that way.

I'm getting diminishing returns on Morrison and their continual tirades against the industry in the text. The most recent iteration in The Green Lantern just ripped me right out of the book to remind me "oh yeah, Morrison hasn't complained about comics yet this issue."

Just sign up on CBR.

[I'm a Fish]

Mary turning evil was a meta commentary? That flew over my head...

I just though it was another "powerful female roll model gotta turn evil" phase...

[Robanker]

Mary turning evil was a meta commentary? That flew over my head...

I just though it was another "powerful female roll model gotta turn evil" phase...

It was Morrison making fun of it... By playing it straight. Not their best idea. As a huge fan of Mary Marvel, I just try and forget that entire situation.

[TheRay]

I like Zeus as Wonder Woman's father, but there already feels like there's a lot of rape in Wonder Woman stories.

[marhawkman]

I like Zeus as Wonder Woman's father, but there already feels like there's a lot of rape in Wonder Woman stories.

Did that actually count as rape though?

[TheRay]

Whether it did or not, I'm fairly certain Hipployta has been raped more than once in canon.

[SiegePerilous02]

There New 52 affair was not rape. Azzarello said Diana was conceived "in love," but I don't view it as love either. At least not on Zeus's end. But Zeus attempting to take Diana by force in the Perez run makes this all the more awkward.

Kind of feel bad for Heracles being cast as overly villainous because of this. IF we had to have a father for Diana from Greek myth (I'd rather they skip it entirely though and stick with the clay birth), on paper he makes more sense than Zeus since he's already tied to the origin and Hippolyta is known from the myths of his 12 labors. But with Perez having him rape Hippolyta, and Morrison heavily implying that Hercules at least had plans to do something similar before Hippolyta killed him (along with the bizarre and uncomfortable way she used his seed to create Diana), that well has been poisoned at this point. Which would be fine if they didn't' feel it was ok to use friggin Zeus instead, and for all his faults in the Greek myths, I don't think Herc was known for being a sex creep like his father and Poseidon.