Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[WonderLight789]

WW is more than her power levels.

And what is she these days that she is so pathetically weak? Did her stories got better? Was there any rule that says WW needs to be weaker than ever before to be a good character?

[I'm a Fish]

Come to think about it, during Amazons Attack, didn't Batman learn enough magic to stop Circe, or something crazy like that? Again, whatever it takes for a Wonder Woman rogue to get Batman or one of his allies 'over' or show how awesome they are. I think I am remembering that right.

Seems like you’re not a top-tear DC character until you job to Bat-god, apparently.

It’s almost like a right of passage at this point… “Got beaten up by Batman? Yah made it to big leagues kid!”

[Gaius]

If there's a WWTAS, Michael Dorn should come back and voice Ferdinand.

[SiegePerilous02]

If there's a WWTAS, Michael Dorn should come back and voice Ferdinand.

Would be ok with this.

Him, Claudia Black as Cheetah and Mozhan Marno as Dr. Cyber would be my main "must be cast" list. Everyone else I'd be open to whoever.

[marhawkman]

Diana should be the first person to regularly get in Circe's way enough to bother her. People who get small wins on her, like Odysseus, she probably didn't care about.

Diana needs to be the thorn in her side she cannot remove. Diana need not be the only one to best her, but perhaps the one that always requires Circe's A-game and even then she still loses.

Someone as long-lived as Circe is probably used to getting her way eventually despite taking a L now and then. I don't think much really got in her way so she just did her own thing and nobody heard much about it because she kept to herself.

But now she gets thwarted on the regular and that challenge motivates her in ways that make sense only to her.

Only way I can think of to make sense of it.

Or Hippolyta? It doesn't NEED to specifically be WW who annoyed Circe, if it's someone close to WW. But now WW is in Circe's way, so WW gets to feel Circe's wrath as a proxy. Perhaps Circe is part of why Paradise Island is hidden? In one of the comics with Lyta Milton, Circe mentioned that even her considerable powers are inadequate to penetrate the magical barrier. Although Circe could use her magic to watch Lyta as the Amazons pretended she was Wondergirl #3.

I kinda wish they'd have continued that. Lyta was a lot less than 50% mortal... Fathered by Ares, and given birth by Circe? Probably less than 25%. She'd started instinctively using her powers. Maybe... she'd figured out how to.... direct arrows with her powers? She was shown to be an expert marksman... despite having only a few days training or something. What sort of powers could she have developed if she'd had a few more years to practice? Obviously she has the potential to do magic.

But yeah, Lyta being trained as an Amazon enraged Circe in a way that... really felt... real. She suddenly became a mother who loved her daughter and wanted to be there for her... but... was being forced to stay away. It inspired a rare demonstration of Circe having superhuman strength. Sure her hand was bleeding afterwards, but it was just a scratch after punching a wall hard enough to shatter the mirror hanging on it. Heh, when Cale made fun of her for it, Circe told Cale to shut up or she'd be next. :P But it's a very unusual moment for Circe... she wants something VERY VERY badly, that she can't just take, even with her immense powers.

It's like that old saying about not getting between a mother bear and her cub... And guess who was standing in her way? The Amazons, but more specifically Hippolyta and WW.

[SiegePerilous02]

Way I've always seen it

Ares: arch enemy to the patron goddesses. Historia may lump the Gods (at least Zeus and Poseidon) along with Ares for two sides in heaven

Circe: arch enemy/old rival to Hippolyta who targets Diana (and ideally Donna as well) out of spite

Cheetah: Purely Diana's personal enemy that she doesn't share with her mother, the other Amazons or goddesses. She has important dynamics with Ares and Circe (particularly the latter over time) but Cheetah is always hers and hers alone.

[Gaius]

Way I've always seen it

Ares: arch enemy to the patron goddesses. Historia may lump the Gods (at least Zeus and Poseidon) along with Ares for two sides in heaven

Circe: arch enemy/old rival to Hippolyta who targets Diana (and ideally Donna as well) out of spite

Cheetah: Purely Diana's personal enemy that she doesn't share with her mother, the other Amazons or goddesses. She has important dynamics with Ares and Circe (particularly the latter over time) but Cheetah is always hers and hers alone.

The same for me pretty much.

Never really considered Donna having a dynamic with Circe (probably because of Donna's loose/tenuous ties to WW at times) but could be interesting.

Certainly a better Witch to interact with than Dark Angel.

[SiegePerilous02]

The same for me pretty much.

Never really considered Donna having a dynamic with Circe (probably because of Donna's loose/tenuous ties to WW at times) but could be interesting.

Certainly a better Witch to interact with than Dark Angel.

Oh yeah Circe really doesn't have any interactions with Donna. But if she is an old enemy of Hippolyta who attacks Diana out of spite, like in the DCAU, logically it should extend to Donna as well. Wonder Girl was raised by Hippolyta from an infant and is essentially her daughter in all but blood. She'd have a big target on her back out in Man's World, especially when she's away from Diana and hanging with the comparitively less experienced Teen Titans.

Would like her to have dynamics with a lot of Diana's enemies actually, especially Cheetah.

But it requires the Titans and WW editors to be on the same page and lol @ us for daring to dream.

[Primal Slayer]

If Steve didn't have crashland directly on Themiscryia they could have it where he flies over where Circe is located and she attempts to do her Circe thing by luring him to her but the plan is thwarted by Princess Diana who unknowingly rescues him from Circe.

[Gaius]

Oh yeah Circe really doesn't have any interactions with Donna. But if she is an old enemy of Hippolyta who attacks Diana out of spite, like in the DCAU, logically it should extend to Donna as well. Wonder Girl was raised by Hippolyta from an infant and is essentially her daughter in all but blood. She'd have a big target on her back out in Man's World, especially when she's away from Diana and hanging with the comparitively less experienced Teen Titans.

Would like her to have dynamics with a lot of Diana's enemies actually, especially Cheetah.

But it requires the Titans and WW editors to be on the same page and lol @ us for daring to dream.

Yeah, lot of interesting dynamics that aren't really explored because of how tenuous characters like Donna and Cassie are tied to WW. Cassie's weird uncle/niece relationship with Ares that developed out of Rucka's run was one of the first I actually began taking a liking to Cassie.

but lol, yeah at that last bit. Dare to dream.

[WonderLight789]

Diana's own cartoon is long overdue. At this point if it happens they need to avoid the new 52 lore completely

[marhawkman]

Yeah, lot of interesting dynamics that aren't really explored because of how tenuous characters like Donna and Cassie are tied to WW. Cassie's weird uncle/niece relationship with Ares that developed out of Rucka's run was one of the first I actually began taking a liking to Cassie.

but lol, yeah at that last bit. Dare to dream.

Heh, one dynamic I'd love to see explored... Lyta Milton and Cassandra Sandsmark. a: Circe doesn't like the influence heroes have on her daughter, b: Lyta feels like a natural choice for a book like Teen Titans or something. I could totally see Cassie having a big sister sort of relationship. Or well cousin I guess. (grand?)Daughter of Zeus and daughter of Ares, yeah.... that's a lot in common.

[Alpha]

So to backtrack, in the William Messner-Loebs run Circe put a spell on herself to forget who she was and turned into Dona Milton. She became a friend of Diana's and eventually got pregnant from Ares, who had secretly possessed a human being named Ari Buchanan. Neither of them knew who the other secretly was. Diana protected Dona Milton and her daughtee right from birth until the whole thing got weird when Dona realized she was Circe.

When Jimenez took over he obviously brought back Circe and her daughter and had the amazons eventually adopt Lyta, to the great displeasure of Circe.

In the Rebirth run by Rucka he essentially recreated that Phil Jimenez dynamic, but with Veronica Cale. If we keep one of these plots of "a villain desperate to get back their daughter from the amazons", who would you give it to? Circe or Veronica Cale?

[Shimbo]

They are half sisters actually.

In the William Messner-Loebs run Circe put a spell on herself to forget who she was and turned into Dona Milton. She became a friend of Diana's and eventually got pregnant from Ares, who had secretly possessed a human being named Ari Buchanan. Neither of them knew who the other secretly was. Diana protected Dona Milton and her daughtee right from birth until the whole thing got weird when Dona realized she was Circe.

When Jimenez took over he obviously brought back Circe and her daughter and had the amazons eventually adopt Lyta, to the great displeasure of Circe.

In the Rebirth run by Rucka he essentially recreated that Phil Jimenez dynamic, but with Veronica Cale. If we keep one of these plots of "a villain desperate to get back their daughter from the amazons", who would you give it to? Circe or Veronica Cale?

That's tough because I much preferred Rebirth Cale over first Rucka run Cale, and a big part of that is that maternal drive to save her daughter who was the collateral damage of the games of gods. There's something fascinating about a mortal woman so aggrieved she takes the fight back to the gods. With Circe though, I loved her time as Dona Milton and her big beef with Diana and the Amazons cemented in her own daughter choosing the Amazons as her family is great. It gives Circe and the Wonder mythos history and a natural enmity and allows writers to show us the Amazon philosophy through their teaching and raising of Lyta. But I also think it's an organic way to complicate Circe and Diana's relationship: obviously Circe hates and resents Diana for holding her daughter, but I can also see her recognizing that she's safer with the Amazons than anywhere else.

Such great themes of maternity, sisterhood, and toxicity make this haaaard...but I'm going to go with Circe.

Cale is a great villain but Lyta and her presence on Paradise Island creates natural conflict and ripe thematic and narrative content to cement Circe as Diana's big bad.

Paradise Island could also be asylum for the children of villains! I personally love when evil characters are shown to have emotions and care about others, however few they may be. Yeah, they're horrible people, but horrible people still care for their "own", yanno? Cale was weaksauce in that first run but once her daughter was woven into the proceedings, you can see the progression of this mogul using all of her intelligence, money, and will to get her back and enact vengeance on those who wronged her. Same with Circe. She's generally thinks humankind are nothing but trivial beasts and sisterhood a farce, BUT she genuinely loves her daughter and wants to be with her and protect her.

Pardon the verbiage, but I changed my mind and I want Circe to get back that Post-Crisis history and Cale to keep her Rebirth motivations. They are far better characters that way.

[I'm a Fish]

Cale’s motives for being against Diana kind-of came to a close when she got her daughter back at the end of Wilson’s run, anyway.

But Circe has her daughters blood somewhere so who knows.