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  1. #1456
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    Goodness no! I like Blue Snowman being specifically a villain of science. The myth vs science aspect of Wonder Woman should be explored more, and she has enough mythical villains or inspired villains.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    We need some variety in Diana's villains.

  2. #1457
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentonis View Post
    I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time powering up a villain is a really simple task. Blue Snowman hasn't had an armor that can pose a threat to Diana? Then just give her one that can. Same applies to any other villain, really. Batman villains have gotten progressively more powerful over the years to keep up with him, Joker is essentially a god of chaos at this point, I don't see why Diana's villains can't benefit from the same type of power creep.
    Well, villains don't need to try to kill the hero to be something the hero has to deal with. Stopping evil schemes is often far more pressing than direct threat to the hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    Goodness no! I like Blue Snowman being specifically a villain of science. The myth vs science aspect of Wonder Woman should be explored more, and she has enough mythical villains or inspired villains.
    I'd like it if she borrowed from Dr. Doom and used magitech. IE it's devices that at first glance seem like super-advanced tech, but on second just don't follow the laws of science. However proper magic users will look at them and go "WTF" since they aren't proper magic either.

    Ie give a scientist a magic rock(for example) and watch to see what they do with it.

  3. #1458
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The more I think about it. Why not have Blue Snow steal some of the Amazons tech? That she was powerful but now with Amazonian tech she is very powerful.

    So I question why not have the Amazons also use magic and charm their tech?

  4. #1459
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I kinda like that Blue Snowman or Blue Snow is now some kinda gigantic mecha with their "snow" powers... it's gigantic cold and snow tech and array kinda put Captain Cold's and Killer Frost's measly frigid output to shame.

  5. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    We need some variety in Diana's villains.
    We already have a ton of science based villains in other comics. Why does WW need them?

  6. #1461
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    We already have a ton of science based villains in other comics. Why does WW need them?
    What is happening in other comics isn't really relevant. If the desire is to see Wonder Woman battle a wider variety of villains, the desire isn't going to be satisfied by reading another character altogether. Plus these villains are already hers anyway, why shouldn't they be used?

  7. #1462
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Diana had sci-fic villains. I don’t mind the myths aspect but she still needs more than Magical villains. Superman has a few magic villains. Batman also. So why can’t Diana have a few sci-fic villains? She had at least a few aliens.

  8. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    What is happening in other comics isn't really relevant. If the desire is to see Wonder Woman battle a wider variety of villains, the desire isn't going to be satisfied by reading another character altogether. Plus these villains are already hers anyway, why shouldn't they be used?
    They are hers, yes, but does that mean they have to be used? Dr Poison has been around for decades but what good stories have been done with her?

  9. #1464
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    They should. All it takes is a good writer Rucka did well. Mister Freeze was a non serious villian until animated series. You make it seem that a character can't become a better character. For example, CHeetah was just a woman in a suit. Many Wonder Woman villains turned better. Diana is only given at least 3 villians at more. Cheetah, Ares, and Circe. We shouldn't have only these villains. I mean we do have VIlliany Inc or Godwatch. So why not keep being back.

  10. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    They should. All it takes is a good writer Rucka did well. Mister Freeze was a non serious villian until animated series. You make it seem that a character can't become a better character. For example, CHeetah was just a woman in a suit. Many Wonder Woman villains turned better. Diana is only given at least 3 villians at more. Cheetah, Ares, and Circe. We shouldn't have only these villains. I mean we do have VIlliany Inc or Godwatch. So why not keep being back.
    I'm not saying it is impossible to make her a better character but so far the WW comics haven't pulled it off. And yes I'm including Rucka's second run in that. It often feels like she only appears in WW comics because she was one of the series' most well known villains and not because there are actually good stories with her. Circe, Ares and Cheetah at least have been better written. Maybe she'd have better luck in another book, preferably with a hero more appropriate for her skill set.

  11. #1466
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They are hers, yes, but does that mean they have to be used? Dr Poison has been around for decades but what good stories have been done with her?
    This one by Eric Luke, she was seriously creepy.

    Doctor_Poison_New_Earth.jpg

    She was good in Phil Jimenez's Skataris storyline too.

    doctor-poison 2.jpg

    Though the real underused scientific villain is Dr. Cyber, after Rucka's new origin she has the potential to be a mega-threat for the entire DC Universe.

  12. #1467
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They are hers, yes, but does that mean they have to be used? Dr Poison has been around for decades but what good stories have been done with her?
    She has a weak rogues gallery because nobody uses them frequently and develops them, which is a big problem for Wonder Woman's world across the board. So yes they should be used. It's not like we have a good track record of writers coming up with memorable new ones. For the modern age, we pretty much just have Veronica Cale and that's it.

    Yeah Poison has been around for decades. But you are ignoring the fact that she wasn't used between Marston and Eric Luke. That's like 5 decades of no appearances, and her appearances since then have still been pretty rare. She only recently made it into other media, and Batman's B and C listers have racked up more appearances well before then. Ares, Cheetah and Circe are better villains because they are used way more frequently, and we're not exactly swimming in a lot of memorable classics for them either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm not saying it is impossible to make her a better character but so far the WW comics haven't pulled it off. And yes I'm including Rucka's second run in that. It often feels like she only appears in WW comics because she was one of the series' most well known villains and not because there are actually good stories with her. Circe, Ares and Cheetah at least have been better written. Maybe she'd have better luck in another book, preferably with a hero more appropriate for her skill set.
    Diana doesn't need to farm out her stuff to other heroes when none of her stuff is utilized properly for her. That's not something many, if any, Wonder Woman fans actually want. Diana is a hero appropriate for Poison's skill set. Nobody is asking for Poison to be stupid enough to think she can fight Wonder Woman directly.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 12-02-2019 at 08:58 PM.

  13. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They are hers, yes, but does that mean they have to be used? Dr Poison has been around for decades but what good stories have been done with her?
    How many good stories have been done with Batman's Mad Hatter? Superman's Parasite? These characters still get USED despite not having a lot of decent material to work with (especially Hatter, they don't know what to do with the guy...it's HARD to find a decent story with him)

    Poison makes a great support villain, she's a brilliant chemist and I like the two movie (live action and animated) showings of her adding powering up other characters with her chemicals and toxins. She definitely isn't the type to get into a fist fight with Diana. I liked the characterization of her being more amoral than outright Joker evil, mainly being focused on her work and not concerned about whether it helps mankind or destroys it... It gives Diana a chance to think she's redeemable (she isn't really but the thought is there).

  14. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    How many good stories have been done with Batman's Mad Hatter? Superman's Parasite? These characters still get USED despite not having a lot of decent material to work with (especially Hatter, they don't know what to do with the guy...it's HARD to find a decent story with him)

    Poison makes a great support villain, she's a brilliant chemist and I like the two movie (live action and animated) showings of her adding powering up other characters with her chemicals and toxins. She definitely isn't the type to get into a fist fight with Diana. I liked the characterization of her being more amoral than outright Joker evil, mainly being focused on her work and not concerned about whether it helps mankind or destroys it... It gives Diana a chance to think she's redeemable (she isn't really but the thought is there).
    Mad Hatter does have good stories. More good ones than Poison anyway. Can't really say the same for Parasite.

    Why would Diana think that makes Poison redeemable?

  15. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Well, villains don't need to try to kill the hero to be something the hero has to deal with. Stopping evil schemes is often far more pressing than direct threat to the hero.
    I would normally agree, but in Wonder Woman's case I feel like she has a notable lack of regularly appearing villains that match her strength, compared to other characters in her weight class, so I would say that it's an element of her mythos that needs some more development

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