Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Gaius]

Statements from the movie people isn't everything. I look at the movie, and i don't see much from Marston, Perez or anything pre 52. Just because they used characters that existed before New 52, doesn't mean they actually paid attention to WW lore before that in a real deep way. Dr Poison was there as a secondary villain. Just like New 52 treated her. The amzons were never as weak as they are in the DCEU. Marston, Perez, Jimenez, or any other take on comic amazons wouldn't be getting wrecked by normal weapons and soldiers. If Patty could have had her real ending against Ares. Then yes, i would have noticed Perez's presence more. But as it is. I barely felt anything from before new 52 in the movie. Usually Superman and Batman's worlds are better represented in the movie verses. Making sure to take pieces from different important eras of the characters. I didn't see much of that with WW 2017. It was a good movie. But very new 52 in most aspects. Usually DC and WB don't try that hard with WW. So the bar is already low from the get go. It's nice that it all turned out right and it was proven that she could carry a movie. But much like in the comics, it'd be nice to see a more organized and ambitious plan to handle this franchise.

And as others have pointed out, no both the Superman and Batman movies take their own liberties when it comes to the films. Yeah, by pure numbers because they get more solo stuff they'll probably get better representation but the 2017 WW film is no more egregious in comparison to Donner's Superman or Burton's Batman.

Again, saying they pulled from New 52 mainly and nothing else is an exaggeration.

This is exactly what happens to them in their origin in the Perez run.

And the Amazons still won that fight in the movie

Jimenez also wrote the "Paradise Lost" storyline which had Theymscrian Amazons dying from machine guns from the Bana.

[WonderLight789]

And as others have pointed out, no both the Superman and Batman movies take their own liberties when it comes to the films. Yeah, by pure numbers because they get more solo stuff they'll probably get better representation but the 2017 WW film is no more egregious in comparison to Donner's Superman or Burton's Batman.

Again, saying they pulled from New 52 mainly and nothing else is an exaggeration.


Jimenez also wrote the "Paradise Lost" storyline which had Theymscrian Amazons dying from machine guns from the Bana.

I didn't see much from Pre 52 in the movie. Perez, Marston, Ruka, Jimenez, Simone, etc. Did you see the film having anything that was a big reference to any of them? Something that actually had a big presence? I didn't. I saw a WW movie. The most standard elkements that almost any version has. That's all i saw. And other standard elements missing.

BM and SM are better represnted in general is what i meant.


Amazons losing to other amazons is one thing. German soldiers from ww1 is a whole different thing. I can post strength feats from comic amazons thatput to shame the DCEU amazons.

[SiegePerilous02]

You could say that at the least they aren't turned off it on principle. Whether that means they will accept the original backstory is another question.

I think they would accept the original backstory if presented with it. I don't get the impression the general audience would care that much either way. One of the benefits of the way the films at least have addressed the Zeus issue is that he isn't a character we as the audience interact with. He's used as a plot device to explain her powers and why she is the one who can destroy Ares, but otherwise the characters who get actual screen time are Hippolyta and Antiope and their influence on Diana. So hopefully that means the audience is still taking away the fact that the Amazons are the ones who actually matter here and any future adaptation that might use the original birth won't rock the boat too much.

Also helps that the Amazons seem to be scene stealers and are well received every time they show up in these movies, even WW84.

Well it helps Joker killing Bruce's parents only happened in one movie and didn't originate in the comics. It was also ignored in other adaptations though I guess if you stretch it, they used that origin in Joker (2019).

While this is true, I also don't think it originating from the comics matters because the majority of the casual audience won't read the comics. For most people post Batman 1989, the Joker killed Batman's parents, a belief that caused frustration for comic book fans. But now that we have had the Nolan trilogy and Joker, they are seeing that not everything is set in stone and it doesn't upset anything.

So much like Peter Parker shooting webs from his body while Doc Ock is being controlled by his arms, the Joker kills Batman's parents while the Penguin is a sewer mutant and Lex Luthor does almost nothing but real estate schemes, Wonder Woman has some things either changed from the comics or pulled from comics people don't like. She's just arriving late to the party on the film front, but it's no different than all of these were.

But yes, in her case almost everything has at least some precedent from the comics. Zeus as daddy, Themyscira without technological advancements, her not flying right away, etc. The major changes are setting the first film in WWI (not a big deal since the time she leaves the island to stop Ares has changed at least three or four times) and the source of Cheetah's powers (not a big deal on paper, as we have Priscilla Rich, Deborah Domaine and Barbara Minerva, three separate characters who each may have more than one version and a different power source in each).

It’s leaving an impact because they consistently use it across the board as her origin in everything now. She’s Zeus kid in JL Action, Injustice, the DCEU, it’s still canon in the comics for right now. Curious if they keep it as her origin for the new shared universe they’re doing.

I think the question is: is it leaving an impact to the point where casual fans accept this as gospel? Could they remove and not cause many waves? I think they could.

One of the "upsides" of Injustice I guess is that they are making so many questionable choices with her character that the origin is almost a non-factor there at this point. She'd suck still even if she was born from clay and acting the same.

[Gaius]

I think it'd all depend on if they even do another origin movie in a reboot.

[Vordan]

I think they would accept the original backstory if presented with it. I don't get the impression the general audience would care that much either way. One of the benefits of the way the films at least have addressed the Zeus issue is that he isn't a character we as the audience interact with. He's used as a plot device to explain her powers and why she is the one who can destroy Ares, but otherwise the characters who get actual screen time are Hippolyta and Antiope and their influence on Diana. So hopefully that means the audience is still taking away the fact that the Amazons are the ones who actually matter here and any future adaptation that might use the original birth won't rock the boat too much.

Also helps that the Amazons seem to be scene stealers and are well received every time they show up in these movies, even WW84.



While this is true, I also don't think it originating from the comics matters because the majority of the casual audience won't read the comics. For most people post Batman 1989, the Joker killed Batman's parents, a belief that caused frustration for comic book fans. But now that we have had the Nolan trilogy and Joker, they are seeing that not everything is set in stone and it doesn't upset anything.

So much like Peter Parker shooting webs from his body while Doc Ock is being controlled by his arms, the Joker kills Batman's parents while the Penguin is a sewer mutant and Lex Luthor does almost nothing but real estate schemes, Wonder Woman has some things either changed from the comics or pulled from comics people don't like. She's just arriving late to the party on the film front, but it's no different than all of these were.

But yes, in her case almost everything has at least some precedent from the comics. Zeus as daddy, Themyscira without technological advancements, her not flying right away, etc. The major changes are setting the first film in WWI (not a big deal since the time she leaves the island to stop Ares has changed at least three or four times) and the source of Cheetah's powers (not a big deal on paper, as we have Priscilla Rich, Deborah Domaine and Barbara Minerva, three separate characters who each may have more than one version and a different power source in each).



I think the question is: is it leaving an impact to the point where casual fans accept this as gospel? Could they remove and not cause many waves? I think they could.

One of the "upsides" of Injustice I guess is that they are making so many questionable choices with her character that the origin is almost a non-factor there at this point. She'd suck still even if she was born from clay and acting the same.

Hmm that’s an interesting question actually. Yes I think you’re right, I think they can still remove it and people wouldn’t really care too much.

[TheRay]

I wouldn't mind seeing more Hercules and Thor in DC.

[phonogram12]

Also helps that the Amazons seem to be scene stealers and are well received every time they show up in these movies, even WW84.

This is weird for me to say since it's rare for me to find a version of the Amazons I've found interesting since pre-Crisis, but I have to agree. The way the Amazons were portrayed in Jenkins' films so far has been absolutely outstanding.

[PopQuezy]

This is weird for me to say since it's rare for me to find a version of the Amazons I've found interesting since pre-Crisis, but I have to agree. The way the Amazons were portrayed in Jenkins' films so far has been absolutely outstanding.

I agree. I usually am ho-hum on the Amazons, and I always want less of them and not more. However, I am really excited about the fabled Amazons film. Jenkins definitely knows how to capture and portray them.

[Guy_McNichts]

I think the question is: is it leaving an impact to the point where casual fans accept this as gospel? Could they remove and not cause many waves? I think they could.

The main takeaway that I see from people is that Diana is a demi-god and/or has god-like power. Like, in conversation regarding her powers, the descriptor I usually see isn't "She's Zeus' daughter!" but more "She's a demi-god/goddess!"
Hell, I remember some people referred to her as a demi-god even when it was still the clay origin even though that wasn't entirely accurate.

It probably helps that, even in adaptations that do use the Zeus origin, they don't dwell on it that much. You could seriously cut two or three lines from Ares in the first movie that Zeus is her father and not one single thing would change. Zeus as her father only gets a single mention in the sequel. It's not like he's much of a presence in her life, so it really doesn't come up all that much.

I think as long as she retains godly power, most people won't care where it actually comes from.

[Alpha]

In the first movie there's only one line that hints at Zeus being her father:

"Zeus left the child he had with the Queen of the Amazons as a weapon to use against me".

Even this doesn't clarify if Diana was still born from clay or not. I mean, breathed life into clay could still be the necessary qualification for Diana being his child.

[Primal Slayer]

I just hate that they tried to up Dianas powers of being able to make things invisible. It was a stupid scene.

[Stanlos]

I just hate that they tried to up Dianas powers of being able to make things invisible. It was a stupid scene.

I didn't like that it was attributed to Zeus rather than Amazon training

[Psy-lock]

I didn't like that it was attributed to Zeus rather than Amazon training

That would've been very goofy. How does one train to make things invisible?

[John Venus]

By standing very, very still for a long time without making a noise?

[Stanlos]

That would've been very goofy. How does one train to make things invisible?

The same mastery of will/manna/force/omnienergy/other random that have been appearing in stories from other cultures for like ever. But with the 52 origin that is what they had as all things must stem from Zeus