Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Mel Dyer]

I'm curious about what the "Wonder" in "Wonder Woman" means to most people. The fact that Marston was convinced to change her name from Superia to Wonder Woman, is one of the most fortunate things to happen to the character and people should remember what it means.

If you had to create a Wonder Woman analog, what would you name the character? If you would call her War Woman (like in Invincible) you clearly want something very different from me.

Clearly, her proper analog would be the Baroness (now, Warmaster), Eviless or Queen Clea, as Dr. Marston saw it. I'm not sure what the hell he intended for Eviless, a sci-fi, Oilcan Harriet, if there ever was one, ..but, it's pretty clear that Queen Clea was played, as an athletic, female Ming the Merciless ..to Diana's Flash Gordon. Conceivably

Imagine, if Brian Azzarello had conceived his 'First Born' story arc, as a reintro for Queen Clea - Venturia being only one, in a long line of her conquests, ..before the Olympians wiped her from the face of the Earth...from even the dust of human memory! The question of Diana's analog would have been settled, then and there! Whether you pick Clea or Warmaster, clearly the analog for a superhuman daughter of immortal, feminist freedom-fighters ..is a superhuman, female Genghis Khan ..or Kurgan to jet-setting Diana's female Highlander. It's not a schizo Lara-Croft-turned-cat-lady.

[Alpha]

Clearly, her proper analog would be the Baroness, Eviless or Clea, as Dr. Marston saw it. I'm not sure what the hell he intended for Eviless, a sci-fi, Oilcan Harriet, but, it's pretty clear that Queen Clea was played, as an athletic, female Ming the Merciless ..to Diana's Flash Gordon.

I wasn't talking about an evil counterpart, just an analogue. Like Promethea, like Winged Victory in Astro City, War Woman in Invincible, Queen Maeve in The Boys, Power Princess and Thundra of the Marvel Universe and Glory of Image comics.

If you had to create a character that to you represented everything you like about Wonder Woman, what name would you give her? What qualities do you think should be referenced in her name? The "Wonder" in Wonder Woman has a whole lot of meaning to me and to the version of Diana I most enjoy.

[Alpha]

. And her personality was also more vibrant, colorful, sassy. Before current era started to portray as a one note warrior or a one note ''pacifist'' that talks long and boring.

That sounds like William Messner Loebs to me, not George Perez. As beautiful as the stories themselves were, the way Perez wrote Diana was very very serious. I don't remember a single moment of humor coming from her, or even attitude. She was a very dignified figure, but not very fun to be around nor did she have much charisma or groove. Rucka did give her a bit more though.

[Mel Dyer]

I wasn't talking about an evil counterpart, just an analogue. Like Promethea, like Winged Victory in Astro City, War Woman in Invincible, Queen Maeve in The Boys, Power Princess and Thundra of the Marvel Universe and Glory of Image comics.

If you had to create a character that to you represented everything you like about Wonder Woman, what name would you give her? What qualities do you think should be referenced in her name? The "Wonder" in Wonder Woman has a whole lot of meaning to me and to the version of Diana I most enjoy.

I think I understand now. Part of any proper analog for Wonder Woman, in addition to the Kurgan elements, I speculated, would be an obsession with corrupting innocents ..and celebrity. That sounds like Circe, a once celebrated sorceress in classical Greece, who will never forgive mankind for betraying her and chasing her into Hell.

[Agent Z]

That sounds like William Messner Loebs to me, not George Perez. As beautiful as the stories themselves were, the way Perez wrote Diana was very very serious. I don't remember a single moment of humor coming from her, or even attitude. She was a very dignified figure, but not very fun to be around nor did she have much charisma or groove.

Seems pretty vibrant and happy here to me.

[I'm a Fish]

That sounds like William Messner Loebs to me, not George Perez. As beautiful as the stories themselves were, the way Perez wrote Diana was very very serious. I don't remember a single moment of humor coming from her, or even attitude. She was a very dignified figure, but not very fun to be around nor did she have much charisma or groove. Rucka did give her a bit more though.

She started to have moments in Perez's run as she progressed. One was when she "picked up" Venessa and Julia literally in their car and cracked a joke afterwards. (I can't remember which issue it was).
Perez's entire run on the comic was also just more serious. Not that Lobes wasn't serious too but Perez was never tongue-and-cheek at any point.

Also you make it sound like Perez's Diana never smiled.

Edit: found it. She didn't crack a joke but she did it to mess with them so.

[Alpha]

One of the words Mystical41 used was "sass". None of those images show Diana being sassy. Still, Diana smiled a lot throughout the run, and I remember moments of people describing her as being excited for something like when she left the island for the second time, but it was always in a very impersonal manner.

I can't quite find the word, but it doesn't feel like a real person. Even that moment with the car feels like an "imitation of a person". Was there really anything funny about her picking up the car? I think part of it is in the artwork. The way Perez draws Diana is pretty, but impersonal. I can never see the thrill in her eyes.

[Gaius]

She started to have moments in Perez's run as she progressed. One was when she "picked up" Venessa and Julia literally in their car and cracked a joke afterwards. (I can't remember which issue it was).
Perez's entire run on the comic was also just more serious. Not that Lobes wasn't serious too but Perez was never tongue-and-cheek at any point.

Also you make it sound like Perez's Diana never smiled.

Edit: found it. She didn't crack a joke but she did it to mess with them so.

Hmm, Diana carrying the car looks like kind of a mirror flip on Clark smashing the car from cover of AC #1

[I'm a Fish]

That sounds like William Messner Loebs to me, not George Perez. As beautiful as the stories themselves were, the way Perez wrote Diana was very very serious. I don't remember a single moment of humor coming from her, or even attitude. She was a very dignified figure, but not very fun to be around nor did she have much charisma or groove. Rucka did give her a bit more though.

Rucka made Year One Diana freaking adorable in his second run. But of course, no less a bad-ass.

[marhawkman]

I don't mean WWE, I mean real wrestling, where your goal isn't to punch, it's to incapacitate the other person. Not just a show of grace, but also of your comfortable power. And yes, the lasso is a perfect tool to accompany this archetype of the wrestler, because it can be both used peacefully and agressively but is always about dominating the adversary.

I meant in the context of classical Greek wrestling. the modern Greco-Roman wrestling is derived from Pankration which is a form of unarmed combat created for use by Greek soldiers. WWE uses styles from a wider variety of martial arts styles than just that, but... "martial arts"... the mere name tells you WHY they exist.

[Alpha]

I know about Pankration. My point is that a wrestler is decidedly not a warrior. All definitions of a wrestler are related to unnarmed fighting as a sport, where the combat itself is only for personal glory and entertainment. But a warrior fights for conquering or defending and is rarely seen unarmed. These are two distinct philosophies of combat, and Diana should in my opinion be put into the archtype of the wrestler, which is quite distinct from the archetype of the warrior. For one thing because she should fight unarmed, not just in reproval of the sword and shield, but also in appreciation of her own immense strength. Second, Diana has every reason to appreciate combat on it's own accord and wrestling is decidedly the purest form of sporty combat.

[Mutant God]

I'm curious about what the "Wonder" in "Wonder Woman" means to most people. The fact that Marston was convinced to change her name from Superia to Wonder Woman, is one of the most fortunate things to happen to the character and people should remember what it means.

If you had to create a Wonder Woman analog, what would you name the character? If you would call her War Woman (like in Invincible) you clearly want something very different from me.

Stronganna

I wasn't talking about an evil counterpart, just an analogue. Like Promethea, like Winged Victory in Astro City, War Woman in Invincible, Queen Maeve in The Boys, Power Princess and Thundra of the Marvel Universe and Glory of Image comics.

Theres also Warriana from the cartoon Venture Bros

[Agent Z]

I know about Prankantion. My point is that a wrestler is decidedly not a warrior. All definitions of a wrestler are related to unnarmed fighting as a sport, where the combat itself is only for personal glory and entertainment. But a warrior fights for conquering or defending and is rarely seen unarmed. These are two distinct philosophies of combat, and Diana should in my opinion be put into the archtype of the wrestler, which is quite distinct from the archetype of the warrior. For one thing because she should fight unarmed, not just in reproval of the sword and shield, but also in appreciation of her own immense strength. Second, Diana has every reason to appreciate combat on it's own accord and wrestling is decidedly the purest form of sporty combat.

If Diana fights unarmed, then the Lasso is just as invalid as the sword and shield. Secondly, if Diana is approaching her fights like a wrestler then she is doing something wrong since her foes are not following the rules of a wrestling match and most of them are willing to kill her.

Diana as you see her is not only incompatible with how she has been depicted in the comics but doesn't even make sense for her character and arguably makes her look worse.

[I'm a Fish]

If Diana fights unarmed, then the Lasso is just as invalid as the sword and shield. Secondly, if Diana is approaching her fights like a wrestler then she is doing something wrong since her foes are not following the rules of a wrestling match and most of them are willing to kill her.

Diana as you see her is not only incompatible with how she has been depicted in the comics but doesn't even make sense for her character and arguably makes her look worse.

[AmiMizuno]

Hey if Dc wanted Diana to be a Demi-Goddess wouldn't the easiest way would be through her mother? Ares has a few times through Wonder Woman called Hippoltya his daughter. instead of the easiest Zeus is the father? Wouldn't it be more interesting the Amazons turning their backs towards Ares?