Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[marhawkman]

I like Yara (in theory at least). That said, she probably shouldn't have been and Amazon. She also should have had different powers from the other Wonders.

Yeah much of what makes her interesting... gets diminished by having her go hang out with WW and do WW stuff.

[Gaius]

I like Yara (in theory at least). That said, she probably shouldn't have been and Amazon. She also should have had different powers from the other Wonders.

I’m reversed. Yara having pretty much no meaningful connection or relation with Diana/rest of the Amazons until after her book got cancelled drove me off the character.

Came off as another example of DC wanting to use Wonder Woman branding/iconography but want nothing to do with Diana herself.

[marhawkman]

I’m reversed. Yara having pretty much no meaningful connection or relation with Diana/rest of the Amazons until after her book got cancelled drove me off the character.

Came off as another example of DC wanting to use Wonder Woman branding/iconography but want nothing to do with Diana herself.

This is also true. If she's just a demi-goddess girl from Brazil... there's no connection to Diana. She kinda needs to have one. but there's several ways to do that.

Needs a balance between being unique, and also ... being a WW character.

[bardkeep]

I like Yara (in theory at least). That said, she probably shouldn't have been and Amazon. She also should have had different powers from the other Wonders.

I wish she were MORE of an Amazon. The Esquecida haven't been developed much but I absolutely love their concept and aesthetics and wish Yara were more connected to them. It also baffles me that they have her exclusively dealing with the Greek pantheon and riding a Pegasus-esque horse when she's the daughter of a Guarani river god.

I'm with you on her powers though - in general I find it boring how superhero families all have the same powers and similar costumes. I love that the Wonders all have distinct looks but I wish they had more power variance. They hinted that Yara had water powers, not sure why no one's taken advantage of that.

[Agent Z]

I don't think Yara needs to be an Amazon to be connected to Diana. She's had non-Amazon supporting casts after all and Yara being a demigod already gives her a connection to Diana's world.

[Primal Slayer]

They went about Yara's introduction all wrong imo. Her look is to inspired by Diana but it doesnt make sense in the story since she doesnt interact with Diana until long after she suits up. Same with the Esquecida. To this day I do not understand why Nubia is their Queen.

I’m reversed. Yara having pretty much no meaningful connection or relation with Diana/rest of the Amazons until after her book got cancelled drove me off the character.

Came off as another example of DC wanting to use Wonder Woman branding/iconography but want nothing to do with Diana herself.

100% agree.

They could've had Yara be this demi-goddess that Hera knows of and is supposed to help bring this twilight of the Gods. Hera takes on Yara as a champion to counter Diana. Diana ends up "saving" Yara from Hera and taking her under her wing. Along the way as Yara is interested in learning about where she came from, she encounters the hidden tribe known as The Esquecida. Decides to take a leave from Dianas side and get to know them. Ends up wanting to blend her newfound culture with that of the Amazons/Diana and we get the suit we know of today which is iconic.

[John Venus]

Her story arc was kicked off by her returning to Brazil to reconnect with her Amazonian Brazillian roots.

It would have been better if they had Diana, Donna or Cassie act as her chaperone as they traveled through Brazil exploring the folklore and mythology. Might have better explained why Donna sided with the Esquecida and give Yara a greater connection to the WW mythos.

[Will Evans]

Her story arc was kicked off by her returning to Brazil to reconnect with her Amazonian Brazillian roots.

It would have been better if they had Diana, Donna or Cassie act as her chaperone as they traveled through Brazil exploring the folklore and mythology. Might have better explained why Donna sided with the Esquecida and give Yara a greater connection to the WW mythos.

We’re we ever given an explanation why Donna and Cassie sided with them?

[Gaius]

The critique of WW being treated like a rookie post-Crisis in George Perez’s run because she debuted in modern times after five years of other heroes is largely baseless. If one personally doesn’t want WW debuting that late and would like her soon after Supes/Bats that’s fine but having read Perez’s run I can’t really recall any instances of WW being treated like an inferior because she was new on the scene.

An actual example of Diana be talked down to/treated like an inferior because she was a rookie would the DCAU but that’s just one problem amongst many with that incarnation. That’s why it’s ultimately a writer issue, not a continuity issue.

[SiegePerilous02]

The critique of WW being treated like a rookie post-Crisis in George Perez’s run because she debuted in modern times after five years of other heroes is largely baseless. If one personally doesn’t want WW debuting that late and would like her soon after Supes/Bats that’s fine but having read Perez’s run I can’t really recall any instances of WW being treated like an inferior because she was new on the scene.

An actual example of Diana be talked down to/treated like an inferior because she was a rookie would the DCAU but that’s just one problem amongst many with that incarnation. That’s why it’s ultimately a writer issue, not a continuity issue.

It's less that she gets treated as a rookie in her own book (because the rest of the DCu doesn't show up in it that much), it's just the fact that she debuts after Dick Grayson is Nightwing and after Donna has been running around as a Wonder Girl with bracelets and a lasso.

And that's deeply, deeply stupid

[Gaius]

It's less that she gets treated as a rookie in her own book (because the rest of the DCu doesn't show up in it that much), it's just the fact that she debuts after Dick Grayson is Nightwing and after Donna has been running around as a Wonder Girl with bracelets and a lasso.

And that's deeply, deeply stupid

Dick Grayson is just another shared universe thing that isn't really relevant to the WW book itself and I would grant Donna but I also don't really consider Donna a WW character at this point if I'm honest. Though that latter part is just my opinion, Donna's origin was screwed up but how much it matters to one depends on one's feelings for Donna

[Guy_McNichts]

It never came up in her own book, but I recall during the first big Post-Crisis crossover, we got the obligatory "Who's the new girl?!" followed by the hokey, slack-jawed "WHAA-?!" when she punched something.

The thing is it's weird to have Diana be effectively the "rookie" of the hero community, yet she's still supposed to be WONDER WOMAN, pillar of the hero community. It was the same in the DCAU where we're supposed to accept Diana on equal footing with Superman and Batman when she's not.

I feel same way with how the MCU has handled Captain Marvel. As we saw in the Ms. Marvel show, Carol is apparently a beloved hero with cosplayers and merchandise and is regarded by the public on the same level as Iron Man and Thor, and it's like...why? How does anyone know who the hell she is? She's been in space for decades, only came back after Thanos wiped out half the universe, and has apparently spent much of her time since still in space.

They want to have it both ways where the character just appeared or has been missing for a long time, yet retains the cache and reverence of someone who's been around since the start. So it just feels unearned.

But that kinda leads to this other strange thing that DC does with Wonder Woman where it's either one extreme or the other.
She can either debut way back in World War II, with no regard to mess it makes of her lore, or she can be the newbie who only appears after Superman, Batman, the Justice League and even the Teen Titans have been firmly established.

Like, really? There's no in between? It would kill you guys to just have Diana appear a few (in-universe) months or a year after Superman and go from there? Like a normal frickin' universe.

[Gaius]

It never came up in her own book, but I recall during the first big Post-Crisis crossover, we got the obligatory "Who's the new girl?!" followed by the hokey, slack-jawed "WHAA-?!" when she punched something.

The thing is it's weird to have Diana be effectively the "rookie" of the hero community, yet she's still supposed to be WONDER WOMAN, pillar of the hero community. It was the same in the DCAU where we're supposed to accept Diana on equal footing with Superman and Batman when she's not.

I do agree that I personally don't like Diana debuting that late but why I think it's a valid critique towards the DCAU and not say post-Crisis is that DCAU "talked the talk but didn't walk the walk".

They did make her a rookie but as most have pointed out, they did nothing to give her a life outside the league; No friends, no interests, no hobbies, just the League and crushing on Bruce (Timm) Wayne. It was a team show so entire plotlines dedicated to her would be unreasonable but scenes, lines, or the occasional episode showing she was developing a life with Man's world outside of her insular friend group would have gone a long way like how they spotlighted Flash and GL. Post-Crisis WW may have debuted later than ideal but it didn't stop her from making big impressions upon arriving

[John Venus]

I do agree that I personally don't like Diana debuting that late but why I think it's a valid critique towards the DCAU and not say post-Crisis is that DCAU "talked the talk but didn't walk the walk".

They did make her a rookie but as most have pointed out, they did nothing to give her a life outside the league; No friends, no interests, no hobbies, just the League and crushing on Bruce (Timm) Wayne. It was a team show so entire plotlines dedicated to her would be unreasonable but scenes, lines, or the occasional episode showing she was developing a life with Man's world outside of her insular friend group would have gone a long way like how they spotlighted Flash and GL. Post-Crisis WW may have debuted later than ideal but it didn't stop her from making big impressions upon arriving

TBF, they did say that they made an intentional decision to isolate each member from their supporting cast. How long did it take for us to see Lois or Jimmy in JL? We don't notice it because we already had a whole show with them in it.

The two parter that followed Secret Origins had John Stewart being ostracized by his friends because they thought he blew up a planet. It was meant to be explain why he never showed up in any prior DCAU show but it also showed him essentially breaking up with his old friends so he can stick around with his new friends. A few episodes we get a similar two parter that ends with Diana banished from Paradise Island so she only has the League left. J'onn already came built in with losing his family and planet but then we get Starcrossed two parter where Hawkgirl gets isolated and broken up from her family. If you look further, Superman TAS ends with Clark losing the trust of the people and essentially being isolated and the Batman Beyond show was about Bruce being isolated and alone until he meets Terry.

Anyway, coming back to WW, I think it all comes back to how trying to wedge her into the role of ensemble character when she is supposed to be as much of a franchise lead as Superman or Batman. WW is just too big to be forced into the role of supporting character.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dick Grayson is just another shared universe thing that isn't really relevant to the WW book itself and I would grant Donna but I also don't really consider Donna a WW character at this point if I'm honest. Though that latter part is just my opinion, Donna's origin was screwed up but how much it matters to one depends on one's feelings for Donna

The thing is, much as WW fans may dislike it, Diana is part of an interconnected universe and is meant to be a pillar of the superhero community. Her debuting long after the Teen Titans are in their 20s is stupid. WW fans may dislike her being in a shared universe, but they also hate how she's not treated as a big deal in-universe to match her icon status out of it. It feels kind of phony if she doesn't debut alongside her actual peers.

Plus I think Legends was her actual first published appearance in Post Crisis canon. We should never take our cues from a John Byrne comic.